2 cvs per team at tier 8+ is not fun

[Marcanbus_NA]

I mean seriously it is not fun for anyone

 

DDs are always spotted

BBs are getting bombed to oblivion

Hell even CVs don't like it

 

Most of the times it turns into a boring campfest because as soon as anyone tries to move out a bit he gets focused by the cvs so noone wants to move. I am not saying that CVs are OP. I am just saying that they should limit the number of cvs to 1 per team to make it enjoyable

 

I know I am not the only one who feels this way

 

 

 

 

[Goose21891]

[Marcanbus_NA]

 

don't you dare eat that popcorn

[BelgaraththeSorcerer]

I rarely see those unless I'm a CV.... and I dont mind since I have enough AA to repel sniping

 

[Marcanbus_NA]

I rarely see those unless I'm a CV.... and I dont mind since I have enough AA to repel sniping

 

 

what ship do you play?

 

for me 9/10 of my games have 2 cvs in them and I'm not even exaggerating

[Misniso]

Single CV per side games generally become lopsided if one CV captain is good and the other sucks.

 

I mean, today I had the horror of witnessing a fighter-loadout Bogue LOSE air superiority against a Zuiho.  I don't know how he ****ed it up so badly when there were no AA cruisers (T5 game), but by midgame he had no fighters.  That Zuiho ended up getting a Kraken and very nearly caused our defeat.  Can you imagine the irony of watching a Bogue's DB squadron playing cat and mouse with a Zuiho's fighter group?

 

With 2 per side, one can cover for the other's ineptitude. 

 

At the very least, I don't witness the above head-banging situation as often.

 

Heck, some CV captains play better when they have a partner.

[HBZK100]

I don't know about most CV players, but I like 4 CV battles.  Plus, at tier 8+ Cruiser AA is so powerful that it doesn't matter.

[BlazerSparta]

CVs in their current state would be a lot more palatable, even 2 per match, if the game rewarded winning first, and personal performance second.

 

As CVs are designed right now, they're worthless to the CV player in the low tiers because their damage potential is pathetic compared to other classes, whereas at high tiers, the rest of the team is essentially just a damage sponge to keep the enemy CV busy while you farm damage. At those high tiers, being a meatshield for your CV while they make credits simply isn't fun.

 

Changing the reward focus to winning will at least make being a meatshield for allied CVs rewarding, if not fun.

 

Edit: typos.

[Marcanbus_NA]

CVs in their current state would be a lot less palatable, even 2 per match, if the game rewarded winning first, and personal performance seconds.

 

As CVs are designed right now, they're worthless to the CV player in the low tiers because their damage potential is pathetic compared to other classes, whereas at high tiers, the rest of the team is essentially just a damage sponge to keep the enemy CV busy while you farm damage. At those high tiers, being a meatshield for your CV while they make credits simply isn't fun.

 

Changing the reward focus to winning will at least make being a meatshield for allied CVs rewarding, if not fun.

 

this

[mofton]

I saw 3 games last night with a single T6 CV in a T8 game, they were about the only T6. Felt kind of sorry for them!

[_Zergling]

CVs in their current state would be a lot more palatable, even 2 per match, if the game rewarded winning first, and personal performance second.

 

As CVs are designed right now, they're worthless to the CV player in the low tiers because their damage potential is pathetic compared to other classes, whereas at high tiers, the rest of the team is essentially just a damage sponge to keep the enemy CV busy while you farm damage. At those high tiers, being a meatshield for your CV while they make credits simply isn't fun.

 

Changing the reward focus to winning will at least make being a meatshield for allied CVs rewarding, if not fun.

 

Edit: typos.

 

I don't see the problem. Just like in world war 2, CVs eventually came to replace battleships as the main capital fleet ships. That doesn't mean that BBs are useless; they are still good at decimating enemy surface ships, its just that there is another threat to look out for.

[EasternDragon_2014]

 

I don't see the problem. Just like in world war 2, CVs eventually came to replace battleships as the main capital fleet ships. That doesn't mean that BBs are useless; they are still good at decimating enemy surface ships, its just that there is another threat to look out for.

 

Please, don't use historical accuracy as an argument for this game. 

[FallenZulu]

I remember in the old days where CV mirror matchmaking did not exist so you would have a solo Lexington going against a solo Taiho. So you know, just accept the current meta right now because it use to be much much worse.

[Guest]

CVs in their current state would be a lot more palatable, even 2 per match, if the game rewarded winning first, and personal performance second.

 

As CVs are designed right now, they're worthless to the CV player in the low tiers because their damage potential is pathetic compared to other classes, whereas at high tiers, the rest of the team is essentially just a damage sponge to keep the enemy CV busy while you farm damage. At those high tiers, being a meatshield for your CV while they make credits simply isn't fun.

 

Changing the reward focus to winning will at least make being a meatshield for allied CVs rewarding, if not fun.

 

Edit: typos.

 

Agreed, I've been the victim of High CV playing, and I must agree, that being used as a decoy for my teams Carrier is not fun, especially since I mostly play in lumbering battleships, which are probably the best damage soaker for a team CV, Carriers should be working to support the team as a whole, instead of using them for their own personal gain, and for that to happen, the first sentence must happen. 

[Prothall]

If WoWS would boost the xp for air superiority, you might see a few more fighter load outs and have the CVs defend the fleet. As it stands now the only way to up tier is to go strike and bomb everything in sight.

[poeticmotion]

I wish I saw more 2CV games at T8. My North Carolina eats planes for breakfast in addition to being a damn good BB, and my New Orleans is pretty useless *except* as an AA escort. And those are currently my only T8s (working on USN DD line, German and Russian cruiser lines, so this will change.) I want moar planes to kill!

[Wo_9]

after all the cv nerfs and changes....seriously LOL

[Marcanbus_NA]

after all the cv nerfs and changes....seriously LOL

 

Like I said it is not about Cvs being OP. Games with 2 CVs have always been crap

[Wo_9]

 

Like I said it is not about Cvs being OP. Games with 2 CVs have always been crap

 

better than torpedus walls and tier 10 cruiser spam 

[atPrick__]

I mean seriously it is not fun for anyone

 

DDs are always spotted

BBs are getting bombed to oblivion

Hell even CVs don't like it

 

Most of the times it turns into a boring campfest because as soon as anyone tries to move out a bit he gets focused by the cvs so noone wants to move. I am not saying that CVs are OP. I am just saying that they should limit the number of cvs to 1 per team to make it enjoyable

 

I know I am not the only one who feels this way

 

 

 

 

 

​I agree.

Especially if the map isn't large its ridiculous. I guess every player has their own pet peeves with the game and this is one of mine.

[shootieboats]

As CVs are designed right now, they're worthless to the CV player in the low tiers because their damage potential is pathetic compared to other classes, whereas at high tiers, the rest of the team is essentially just a damage sponge to keep the enemy CV busy while you farm damage. At those high tiers, being a meatshield for your CV while they make credits simply isn't fun.

 

Fwiw, that's because the people driving the CVs in low tiers are not very good. I re-bought a Hosho two days ago, and the Langley today.

 

Averaging 74k through 19 games with the Hosho, and 95k through two Langley games, and both started with level 1 captains. So they clearly can do damage when someone who knows how to play a CV is using them.

 

Edit: And I do agree with OP that two CVs in matches, especially higher tier, is kind of crappy for everyone else involved. Hell, I don't even like being one of the two CVs on a team, though that's mostly because I hate chancing having to carry the weight of two against two decent CVs on the off chance that the guy I got is mediocre or worse. Ok, so it isn't that off of a chance.

[BlazerSparta]

I don't see the problem. Just like in world war 2, CVs eventually came to replace battleships as the main capital fleet ships. That doesn't mean that BBs are useless; they are still good at decimating enemy surface ships, its just that there is another threat to look out for.

 

That's exactly the problem. We're playing a game here, not fighting a real war. In a competitive multiplayer game, all classes need meaningful weaknesses inherent in their kit so that no single choice is always the best choice.

 

CVs currently lack a meaningful weakness in gameplay.

 

after all the cv nerfs and changes....seriously LOL

 

CVs don't need nerfs. They need a rework of their core mechanics and AA.

 

better than torpedus walls and tier 10 cruiser spam 

 

Torp walls and T10 CA spam can be outplayed and effectively countered. CVs can not.

 

Fwiw, that's because the people driving the CVs in low tiers are not very good. I re-bought a Hosho two days ago, and the Langley today.

 

CV design doesn't help that,

 

You KNOW that a new player, working with an entirely new set of controls, entirely new UI, and entirely new playstyle, is going to make mistakes.

 

You KNOW that they are going to have trouble lining up manual drops, and spend too much time in enemy AA. You KNOW that they will lose a crap ton of planes to simple mistakes that no experienced player will ever make.

 

Yet the design of low tier CVs address NONE of that. They have the most delicate planes, relative to AA they face, so that when they inevitably spend too long lining up a drop, they will lose a ton of planes. And when they do inevitably lose a ton of planes, they don't have the reserves to replace the losses.

 

I see 2 options to fix this.

 

1: Massively bump up the survivability of the T4, and maybe T5 planes. They should be tougher vs same tier AA than Midway's jets used to be. Leave damage and fighter DPS where they are now. Fighters at this tier would be more about just making enemy planes less accurate rather than shooting anything down. Let them master attacking first, then introduce things like fightr barrage as useful concepts later on. 

 

2: Remove plane capacity. Adjust stats as necessary.

[shootieboats]

I mean, that's all well and good, I was just addressing the "As CVs are designed right now, they're worthless to the CV player in the low tiers because their damage potential is pathetic compared to other classes" part of your statement. Their damage potential isn't pathetic, it's that people in those tiers typically don't know how to play them. I'm a pretty good CV. Not great, but good. And I'm putting up numbers well above what most Tier IV ships can reliably put up in damage.

 

You could certainly say that low level CV play is hard and relatively unforgiving, what with the small number of planes and low plane health, but the potential to put up massive numbers is there. Most people just don't have the experience to do it.

[poeticmotion]

 and spend too much time in enemy AA. You KNOW that they will lose a crap ton of planes to simple mistakes that no experienced player will ever make.

 

Yet the design of low tier CVs address NONE of that. They have the most delicate planes, relative to AA they face, so that when they inevitably spend too long lining up a drop, they will lose a ton of planes. And when they do inevitably lose a ton of planes, they don't have the reserves to replace the losses.

 

I see 2 options to fix this.

 

1: Massively bump up the survivability of the T4, and maybe T5 planes. They should be tougher vs same tier AA than Midway's jets used to be. Leave damage and fighter DPS where they are now. Fighters at this tier would be more about just making enemy planes less accurate rather than shooting anything down. Let them master attacking first, then introduce things like fightr barrage as useful concepts later on. 

 

2: Remove plane capacity. Adjust stats as necessary.

(text bolded by me, for emphasis) 

 

I don't really think that bumping up plane survivability is a balanced answer to helping new CV players learn. Almost all t4 ships, and most t5 ships, have pathetic AA. Yes, t4 planes melt when faced with t6 AA (especially Cleveland or to a lesser extent New Mexico, possibly from what I've seen Budyonny) , but that's enough to teach them about AA mechanics when they get matched up with t6 ships as low-tier. Making t4 and t5 planes more survivable would render t4 and t5 ships practically defenseless against CVs of same tier. It would essentially make t4 CVs competitive in t6 games at the cost of making them completely OP in t3 and t4, and close to it in t5 games. 

 

Name me one t4 ship that actually has strong AA even against t4 planes. Phoenix, maybe but doubtful. Nothing else really comes close to being more than somewhere between mediocre and barely adequate. 

 

[mxlm]

I mean, that's all well and good, I was just addressing the "As CVs are designed right now, they're worthless to the CV player in the low tiers because their damage potential is pathetic compared to other classes" part of your statement. Their damage potential isn't pathetic, it's that people in those tiers typically don't know how to play them. I'm a pretty good CV. Not great, but good. And I'm putting up numbers well above what most Tier IV ships can reliably put up in damage.

 

This is true through the mid tiers as well. My Indepence's 56k and Ryujo's 63k average are dwarfed by my Fuso's 76k, sure, but A: that's not pathetic and B: the super low repair costs (that is, usually no repair costs) mean that even with the lower damage than my battleships my T6 carriers are by far the most lucrative ships I have at the tier. 

 

It is true that the Independence's overall 27k average damage over the past two weeks (and overall, more or less) indicates that most players struggle to make much money with the ships, sure.