Chokai Looks at Warplanes: Short S.25 Sunderland

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

CLAW-3: Short S.25 Sunderland

 

Many people know about the Battle of the Atlantic. The U-Boats, the convoys, the destroyer, and yes even the escort carriers. But there was more to it than that. Both this CLAW and the next one will deal with two planes that changed the face of that battle. For this one we will look at the Allies, with their biggest floatplane: the Short S.25 Sunderland. This plane first took flight in October of 1937- and was even planned as a gigantic biplane! Luckily, it was instead changed to a monoplane.  Many of these, even during the war, would be repurposed for passenger and cargo flights.

 

A Drawup of the Mark II

As previously stated, this plane first took flight in 1937- two years before the Second World War. Large, fat, with a single wing over the top and four massive engines it was designed (eventually) as a reconnaissance vehicle.  When ordered, they were made to compete with the German DO X and American S-42- mail planes. Indeed, that is what it was first designed for, and competed for. However, with war looming, it was demanded that a militarized version of this plane was made- the S.25. Changes included a bigger hull (for additional fuel, additional crew, and addition supplies), a single .303 in the nose, 4 .303’s in the tail, and more powerful engines.

 

Still, it was not enough. So two additional fuel tanks were added (increasing the amount to six), as well as stoves and a toilet for the crew- which were increased from 7 to 11. On some racks were added for depth charges and/or bombs. All of these would actually be on the inside- when they wanted to bomb or depth charge a target, they would have slid the racks out under the wings for deployment! This kept the arsenal "safe" during the long flights and reduced wind drag, reducing fuel consumption and increasing speed, but added time for the enemy to escape if they were previously spotted. But yet again, it needed more fuel for the long journeys it would be on- so four smaller tanks were added in the fuselage- for a total of six large and four small. This allowed patrols of 8-12 hours. As the war went on, the armaments would increase- including experiments with a 37MM cannon, and addition nose gun, and upgrading the .303’s to .50’s.

 

A Sunderland on the Water

As the war started, the Sunderland got a “Fun” series of jobs: Recon, Search and Rescue, as well as U-Boat Hunting. Many pilots derided it as a “boring” duty, but many would later write they were happy for it as they weren’t put in the more dangerous operations such as bombing Germany. Indeed, even when attacked it proved strong: in one instance a single plane, attacked by six Ju-88C’s shot down one and survived. The Germans would give the plane a nickname: Stachelschwein- Flying Porcupine. In addition to British service the RAAF would use them as well, and sink both German and Japanese submarines with them.

 

Despite its size, there was a single plane that the Sunderland could dogfight with. It is the plane I will be covering next week, the Condor. A four engined Luftwaffe plane, it was used extensively in the Atlantic theater for reconaissance and ship attack, gaining the nickname "Snooping Joe", as well as other, more vulgar names. These two were like the 109 and Spitfire of the Atlantic. Neither could turn well, both had incredible range, and the pilots and crews would frequently spar. This was actually of additional necessity as the Condor would "spot" for U-Boats out of fighter range, so Sunderlands would be employed to chase them off.

 

By 1943 radars would be mounted on them, allowing them to attack submarines who frequently surfaced during the “safe” night time. Indeed, they were deemed such a threat to the U-boats that 20MM and 37MM Flak guns would begin to be mounted- both for actually shooting down the planes and to give the crews some morale when under attack. Still, this plane didn’t only show its power in combat. It also would fight in logistics. That is, it found a niche in aiding in the various Mediterranean evacuations and supply drops. Its ability to land on water aided it a number of times in this endeavor, allowing it aid small islets that otherwise could not be visited by large planes. Even during the Korean War they would find use in this role, as well as their originals ones. They would remain in service with the RAF until 1959, and the RNZAF until 1967.

 

Not long after the war, and even during, the Sunderland would also enter civilian use as a long range passenger plane- continuing in service until 1974, a service life of 36 years. Having proven itself both versatile and powerful, it is often looked upon fondly as the pinnacle of the “big” flying boats, and the best non-carrier plane on the Allied side in the Battle of the Atlantic.  

 Sunderland in Flight

The Sunderland had multiple variants, in order the I, II, III, IIIa, IV, and V all but one of which were just upgrades- including radar, weapons, and fuel tanks- to the existing frames and new machines. When in civilian use it was known as the Short Sandringham. The III was the biggest change, including a modification of the hull. Because of this, the post IIIs were generally capable of being upgraded to V, but the I and IIs could not be. The V was introduced at the beginning of 1945, and included upgraded engines, as with all the many changes the plane had kept the same engines it started with. The Mark III was the most common of all of them.

 

When looked upon with a critical eye, it can be seen that this was a great plane. However, due to being relegated to Atlantic duty, U-Boat Patrol, and simple recon it does not get the love or research of many “mainstream” planes- Spitfires, 51s, 190s, Zeros, and 109s being the primary planes one thinks of when thinking of the planes of the Second World War, and at least for me I generally think of Lancasters, B-17s, and B-24s when I think of “Big” Planes.

 

Specifications (Mark III)

Maximum Speed: 210 MPH

Rather slow, it would be like a sky battleship compared to DBs and TBs being cruisers and fighters destroyers.

Range: 1780 Miles

Perhaps this could mean it could/would stay in air indefinitely? Recharge weapons? I truly don’t know.

Armament: 16x .303’s, 2x .50’s, an assortment of bombs, depth charges, and mines- no “standard” loadout.

Despite the “lightness” of caliber, these would ensure that any fighter squadron would take as much or more casualties as attacking a bomber squadron. The variety of secondary armaments also means that whilst it couldn’t torp, it COULD cause some bomb hits. It generally carried a lot of “lighter” bombs as opposed to a few heavier ones as it was sub hunting. This could make it a nice “Anti-DD” plane.

Rate of Climb: 720 Ft/Min

Doesn’t really matter for this game as it doesn’t concern alitudes.

K/D:  N/A

Doesn’t matter for a bomber/recon plane, but at least one confirmed kill.

Overall: I can’t see this plane being launched by anything other than a Seaplane Tender or Land Base. It’s not feasible. It could be used in the hypothetical “Convoy Escort” mode as a means to identify the attackers for the convoy defenders, and it could bomb various ships, though fire would be its main advantage with its many lighter bombs, not alpha damage. My guess is it would be AI controlled in this case. At most I would guess two to a squadron, probably one, but with high HP and a nice amount of defensive Umpf to make fighter carriers unhappy. And yet, its speed would also make it a tasty target.

 

Additional Reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Sunderland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic

[FurDenKaiser1914]

Pew pew!

Do Do 335 next!

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

Pew pew!

Do Do 335 next!

Next is the Fw 200. Not sure after that. I am trying to not do the same nation twice in a row, and planes that had an impact in the naval war. Do 335 was late in the war and in small numbers. After the 200 I might do the Betty or Nell, as I haven't done a Japanese plane, or maybe the Kate or Zero. I will try to do the 335 sometime though since it has now been requested.

[Marcanbus_NA]

Nice read!

[ValkyrWarframe]

I wish we could change the loadout of our planes.  Cause the IJN B5Ns could also carry 800kg bombs instead of torpedoes.  Much better dive bombers than the 250 kg bombs dropped from D3As and D4Ys.

[FurDenKaiser1914]

Next is the Fw 200. Not sure after that. I am trying to not do the same nation twice in a row, and planes that had an impact in the naval war. Do 335 was late in the war and in small numbers. After the 200 I might do the Betty or Nell, as I haven't done a Japanese plane, or maybe the Kate or Zero. I will try to do the 335 sometime though since it has now been requested.

So next is the ship sinker...

You should start looking at tanks.

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

Chokai, you still aren't giving me the outro I wanna read. Lol

[Lampshade_M1A2]

Dropped a lot of depth charges with these. Virtually that is.

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

Nice read!

Thank you sir!

Chokai, you still aren't giving me the outro I wanna read. Lol

Eh... which Outro is that? I can do it for you.

I wish we could change the loadout of our planes.  Cause the IJN B5Ns could also carry 800kg bombs instead of torpedoes.  Much better dive bombers than the 250 kg bombs dropped from D3As and D4Ys.

Indeed, most IJN twin engines and even single engines could carry both bombs and torps.

So next is the ship sinker...

You should start looking at tanks.

I may, but I don't enjoy WoT at all. I know alot about German tanks so I could I guess.

[FurDenKaiser1914]

Thank you sir!

Eh... which Outro is that? I can do it for you.

Indeed, most IJN twin engines and even single engines could carry both bombs and torps.

I may, but I don't enjoy WoT at all. I know alot about German tanks so I could I guess.

Next British bomber should be the Wellington.

[Mannstien]

Oh, that thing, I still have nightmares of my radio operator constantly telling me "Picking up Radar Signals" in Silent Hunter 3 just to have that boy show up and use a Ley light on me with some barrel bombs at night. (GWX mod), by 43' it took forever to get out of the Bay of Biscay....Love that game

 

[hoom]

I always liked the Sunderland

 

[EroSun]

How about the PBY-5 Catalina?  She was a workhorse for the Allies as well.  Not as big as a Sunderland but she's got her own charms and did her fair share of work in the Atlantic and more then her fair share in the Pacific.

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

Thank you sir!

Eh... which Outro is that? I can do it for you.

Indeed, most IJN twin engines and even single engines could carry both bombs and torps.

I may, but I don't enjoy WoT at all. I know alot about German tanks so I could I guess.

I'll get you next time... Gadget

 

Because the series is still C.L.A.W

[gamera57]

After the Kondor perhaps you could do the Kawanishi H8K "Emily", possibly the best flying boat of the war

[FurDenKaiser1914]

After the Kondor perhaps you could do the Kawanishi H8K "Emily", possibly the best flying boat of the war

I wouldn't say that, seeing as they didn't do much other than fly reconnaissance and bomb stuff.

Plus, very few were made.

[ValkyrWarframe]

Indeed, most IJN twin engines and even single engines could carry both bombs and torps.

But the B5N and B7A are single-engine torpedo bombers.  They can carry much heavier bombs than the D3A or D4Y.

[DoomStomper]

Nice write-up, will +1 it when I get more to hand out.

 

I also agree that the Kawanishi H8K "Emily" is worth a look, especially if you haven't done any Japanese planes yet.  There may have been too few of them to have a combat record rivaling that of the Sunderland, but they compare quite favorably in performance.

 

Not that it could be expected anytime soon, but I would love to see some large seaplanes along with 2 and 4 engine bombers in WoWS.  Don't know how easily non-carrier-based aircraft could be balanced for the current PvP environment, but they could be a nice addition if we ever get some sort of a PvE campaign mode in the future.

 

 

Edit:  Also, if WG decides to implement larger panes, we can rest assured they will uncover a few 'sekrit dokkuments' to provide the Soviets with some version of this beast...

 

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

Next British bomber should be the Wellington.

Perhaps. Likely in fact.

Oh, that thing, I still have nightmares of my radio operator constantly telling me "Picking up Radar Signals" in Silent Hunter 3 just to have that boy show up and use a Ley light on me with some barrel bombs at night. (GWX mod), by 43' it took forever to get out of the Bay of Biscay....Love that game

Heh I haven't played that in years.... I need to find that disc...

I always liked the Sunderland

She's a beautiful plane, basically a flying bus.

How about the PBY-5 Catalina?  She was a workhorse for the Allies as well.  Not as big as a Sunderland but she's got her own charms and did her fair share of work in the Atlantic and more then her fair share in the Pacific.

I was planning on doing that one in fact as my next US plane. That way I will have done a floatplane from every nation after I do another German.

I'll get you next time... Gadget

 

Because the series is still C.L.A.W

Next time I shall end with that.

But the B5N and B7A are single-engine torpedo bombers.  They can carry much heavier bombs than the D3A or D4Y.

Yeah you are right. That's why I was talking about both the twin engines and single engines, I was explaining that basically every Japanese Plane could do everything. Perhaps not the best, but they could all fill multiple roles. The Kate was a great plane, it's a shame the B7A came so late.

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

Nice write-up, will +1 it when I get more to hand out.

 

I also agree that the Kawanishi H8K "Emily" is worth a look, especially if you haven't done any Japanese planes yet.  There may have been too few of them to have a combat record rivaling that of the Sunderland, but they compare quite favorably in performance.

 

Not that it could be expected anytime soon, but I would love to see some large seaplanes along with 2 and 4 engine bombers in WoWS.  Don't know how easily non-carrier-based aircraft could be balanced for the current PvP environment, but they could be a nice addition if we ever get some sort of a PvE campaign mode in the future.

 

 

Edit:  Also, if WG decides to implement larger panes, we can rest assured they will uncover a few 'sekrit dokkuments' to provide the Soviets with some version of this beast...

 

Thanks for the +1 . I will try to do the Emily, perhaps not next but eventually. As for Russian Planes I may do the Il-2 eventually. I believe I read in one of my books they attacked some German ships. If I can find that book, or records of that, I can justify it.

[Battleship_60]

 

 Never knew this existed. I like it though.