Gameplay and community

[BereanHeart]

I'm not fully certain if this is the right place to do this thread, please feel free to move it where appropriate, moderators.

 

Today, I faced a situation that I will NOT get into. I love this game. I may complain constantly about the RNG, teams that just straight up suck, shots that jsut appear to be utter bull, and a WHOLE list of other things. still, I LOVE this game. I am so glad to have found it, and loved being a part of the OBT.

 

What I hate is some of the attitudes. I'm reminded of family. I can dog my family all I want, but no one else has that privilege. I am that way in real life, so I am not gonna change jsut because of the anonymity of an online game.

 

Anyone who wants to imply, without solid proof, that people aren't on the up and up, I will stand behind leaders, whether my pastor, my parents, or the men and women (I am assuming there are women on staff) of the games I love like this one. 

 

We, as a community, make this game what it is. WG and their developers can do all the technical stuff..... set stats on ships, etc, but this is a SOCIAL game, and it is us, the players (yes, WG staff are just as much players in this regard as we are), that really make it what it is through the experience. People who try to diminish or harm that experience whether through questionable mods to give an advantage, or highly Taboo topics like revealing player positions in a battle, do not deserve our pity, but rather our outrage, as a community. 

 

Am I against profanity in comms? Not specifically, I have done it. Is it officially a violation? probably. That is the social element. It is when that turns into a blatant attack on another player that it is highly disfavored. Have I been 'opinionated' in comms about players? Yes, and not always the nicest ways. For that, I do apologize. My personal stance is this: I will harp on ACTIONS all day, but to make it personal, I seek to avoid. 

 

Examples:

Man, you are playing (insert class of ship here) like an idiot. You should really spend time in co-op or get the training room mod and practice support. - This is borderline, but generally, IMHO, ok. It is focusing on the PLAYING and not the person themself.

You are a complete moron and an idiot. You should delete this game you ........ etc - Notice how this is an attack on the person directly. Not their playing ability, but the PERSON. I am getting much better at avoiding this situation.

 

No, I'm not perfect. I still screw up. And to everyone that I have been that way toward, if you are reading this, I apologize. We can all work together and make this an even BETTER game, not from the right code, or the proper ship selection, but by being a community, a family, a place to enjoy company and competition.

[Destroyer_Haida]

Well you've made the first step at least, realizing that being toxic doesn't help win games or help people learn. That's better then most people. Then again it is an online game so your going to have to realize that there will always be a certain degree of flaming and shaming.

[Hack_McSlash]

 

Examples:

Man, you are playing (insert class of ship here) like an idiot. You should really spend time in co-op or get the training room mod and practice support. - This is borderline, but generally, IMHO, ok. It is focusing on the PLAYING and not the person themself.

You are a complete moron and an idiot. You should delete this game you ........ etc - Notice how this is an attack on the person directly. Not their playing ability, but the PERSON. I am getting much better at avoiding this situation.

 

Try refraining from any words like "idiot" and "moron" in chat to players and you may find some will listen. Unfortunately, there are some who won't and that's ok too. Do your best and don't worry about those players. Once they keep getting blown up repeatedly, they'll either listen and try to learn or just hit "uninstall" and we win either way.

 

[Grevester]

I get it, but putting all this here will accomplish nothing. The only way you can reach the people you want is to confront them in-game, and even then you will have no impact because they do not care what you have to say. There are actually a majority of people who agree with you, but you do not notice them because they most likely just play without talking and instead bring more attention to the negativity. 

[KTcraft]

Examples:

Man, you are playing (insert class of ship here) like an idiot. You should really spend time in co-op or get the training room mod and practice support. - This is borderline, but generally, IMHO, ok. It is focusing on the PLAYING and not the person themself.

You are a complete moron and an idiot. You should delete this game you ........ etc - Notice how this is an attack on the person directly. Not their playing ability, but the PERSON. I am getting much better at avoiding this situation.

 

I would avoid doing either of the above examples unless provoked or defending another player from abuse.  There are times that even the best players make dumb mistakes and you may be inadvertently calling out a player who is in fact quite skilled.  

Even if that player isn't good, just telling such a person to hop in co-op is not going to help either and serves to demean them even if you don't call them names.

 

Just avoid doing this stuff unless they are already being jerks.

[Shadowrigger1]

I don't hold back, if you play like crap, I am gong to tell you,  if you are a Tier 7+ and just flat out don't know how to play, I'm going to tell you,  If your feelings get hurt,  man up and realize you just flat out don't know how to play.  Coddling you like a baby nursing on a bottle isn't going to do much good, you already been coddled enough.

[KTcraft]

I don't hold back, if you play like crap, I am gong to tell you,  if you are a Tier 7+ and just flat out don't know how to play, I'm going to tell you,  If your feelings get hurt,  man up and realize you just flat out don't know how to play.  Coddling you like a baby nursing on a bottle isn't going to do much good, you already been coddled enough.

 

Just telling someone they are bad doesn't help.  If what you are saying isn't constructive it certainly won't help anyone improve and will likely not be taken seriously anyway.

[Nukelavee45]

Berean - everybody has moments where frustration inspires us to trash talk.  Sometimes, it's understandable or even deserved, depending on exactly what you are saying.  Somebody purposefully throwing a game, or playing like an idiot, needs to be called out, although going full Cartman is to be avoided.  Sometimes, after doing so, we realize we were totally off base - those times, it's worth while to own up to being a jerk ourselves.

 

In general, tho - if you want to improve the community, speak out in games when you see great plays, or somebody making a solid effort.  Consider how often you do something so cool or "pro" in game, and it goes unremarked.  When you see others do something you'd be happy to accomplish, point it out.  The more that sort of thing happens, the less influence the jerks have over the community.

 

In both this game, and WoT, if I see a good or cool play, my team or not, I'll let the player know.  If I see a newer player doing his best, and the "pro's" screaming, I'll take the time, post game if needed, to message them and counter the flames.

 

The hidden bonus is that, if you establish a rep for being reasonable, people will be far more likely to take advice in game, and to work with you.  Which improves the quality of your fun.

 

It's not because I'm a gentle soul, or because I can't handle harsh words - IRL I'm more than capable of being harsh, and giving as good as I get - when it matters.  I aim to be pleasant because it's simply more effective, and enjoyable.

[dahdah325]

Lol - someone's feels got hurt. 

 

If you are playing like a moron, I have no issue calling you one. If you don't want to face criticism, either learn how to play or eat a teaspoon of cement and harden the fark up. Yes, its just a game, but many people here like to win, and playing with pubbies who refuse to learn is frustrating. OP, you are at 48% win rate after 2k+ games; this indicates you are doing something wrong on a regular basis. Its not the teams, or MM or RNG. You simply are making too many mistakes that cost your team a good chance at a win, and as a result you are catching flak for it. Again, either git gud or get used to being abused. 

[Shadowrigger1]

 

Just telling someone they are bad doesn't help.  If what you are saying isn't constructive it certainly won't help anyone improve and will likely not be taken seriously anyway.

 

Oh I tell them what I think they did wrong, but they are the useless players that pollute these games day in and day out,   nothing you say can or will change how they play.   They were raised to be mediocre or abject failures in life, that is pretty much what most of them will remain while the rest of the world carries / takes care of them.

[KTcraft]

 

Oh I tell them what I think they did wrong, but they are the useless players that pollute these games day in and day out,   nothing you say can or will change how they play.   They were raised to be mediocre or abject failures in life, that is pretty much what most of them will remain while the rest of the world carries / takes care of them.

 

Well, I don't think being a bad player "pollutes these games".  Certainly some are not open to criticism constructive or otherwise and yes, those individuals will never be good, but then why bother them if that's the case.  

If they are open to advice then I don't see why you wouldn't present it in a way that is constructive and nonconfrontational if they haven't provoked you.

[Reymu]

It also depends if in a mood for giving pleasant advice. Name-calling just makes you a toxic player and no one wants to take advice from that. "Yeah I know, he sucks, I can tell from playing BB a lot. I'm just too salty to give advice now" is a fair compromise.

 

I'm not sure what dahdah is smoking. 48% win rate is pretty decent in my experience, since it is difficult to know ahead of time which enemy players are skilled and should die first.

 

 

Oh I tell them what I think they did wrong, but they are the useless players that pollute these games day in and day out,   nothing you say can or will change how they play.   They were raised to be mediocre or abject failures in life, that is pretty much what most of them will remain while the rest of the world carries / takes care of them.

 

Generalizing everyone on the internet is counterproductive bro. Instead of assuming everyone that played badly is brain-dead, why not ask them by their username if they will accept a tip or two? Or ask if they've used that ship much? Only important to worry about is yes/no to "does this player want to improve?" Easier on you, especially if he put a hot iron under your tush with his stupidity. If he doesn't act like he cares, can write him off as "mad cause bad."

[Hochtaloughie]

I agree with your sentiment entirely.

 

I was the same way with WoT but the culture of hate and personal invective that developed there will never go away.

 

I think the culture of hate is an online chat thing. It's just something to ignore and move on.

 

A previous poster referred to the what in olden times was called "The Silent Majority" and I agree with that wholeheartedly because (my personal theory) the ones that use chat to denigrate will never change. Whereas, the ones (like you) who choose to castigate, rather than denigrate, cannot change those ingrained attitudes you are focusing on.

 

I, like the majority, most often choose to ignore the in-game chat and only use it to a) inform the team of a developing tactical situation which may lead to disaster., b) make pleasant jokes and humuorous comments., c) congratulate and commend a great move by players of either team.,AND (my occasional favourite) d) manipulating the chat ragers by "poking the bear" for sh*ts and giggles.

[Nhi_Vanye]

 

Oh I tell them what I think they did wrong, but they are the useless players that pollute these games day in and day out,   nothing you say can or will change how they play.   They were raised to be mediocre or abject failures in life, that is pretty much what most of them will remain while the rest of the world carries / takes care of them.

 

Being skilled and toxic still leaves you toxic, which is the problem.  Try being skilled and helpful, and the game will likely improve.

[JCC45]

I don't hold back, if you play like crap, I am gong to tell you,  if you are a Tier 7+ and just flat out don't know how to play, I'm going to tell you,  If your feelings get hurt,  man up and realize you just flat out don't know how to play.  Coddling you like a baby nursing on a bottle isn't going to do much good, you already been coddled enough.

 

Congratulations.  You are the problem.

 

If someone isn't playing up to your standards instead of waving your virtual [edited]in their face why not offer advice or suggestions on what they are doing wrong and how they can improve.  I know that takes a lot more effort that typing "YOU ARE TEH SUXORR!!!111!!!" but ultimately if you can improve someone's play style it will benefit everyone.... including you.  It will also make you look good in the eyes of the other players.

 

Look at the people who have real respect in the community... Notser, Jingles, Chase, Mouse, Quaffer, Red Raven and many, many others. They earned that respect by helping people improve their game. 

 

Everybody knows their names.  Nobody remembers the big mouthed morons.

 

[Shadowrigger1]

 

Congratulations.  You are the problem.

 

If someone isn't playing up to your standards instead of waving your virtual [edited]in their face why not offer advice or suggestions on what they are doing wrong and how they can improve.  I know that takes a lot more effort that typing "YOU ARE TEH SUXORR!!!111!!!" but ultimately if you can improve someone's play style it will benefit everyone.... including you.  It will also make you look good in the eyes of the other players.

 

Look at the people who have real respect in the community... Notser, Jingles, Chase, Mouse, Quaffer, Red Raven and many, many others. They earned that respect by helping people improve their game. 

 

Everybody knows their names.  Nobody remembers the big mouthed morons.

 

 

Don't need anyone to remember me,  this is a game, My fame doesn't come from being good at internet games. I have plenty of notoriety in my real life than to worry about what some game community really thinks of me. That's where you children go wrong, you think being good at games is what makes you a man, or woman.   Helping someone be better at a game, not my goal in life. Those that take the time to make videos, more power to them, it's something they enjoy.

 

Yea yea,  someone is a fortune 500 business owner here,  well  if you suck at gaming.. 

 

I don't claim to be good, I just claim to be better than the person I just seen yolo a Yamato down the middle of Two brothers.  At this point my friend, nothing I can say will make that person realize he is pure crap.

[dahdah325]

 

Congratulations.  You are the problem.

 

If someone isn't playing up to your standards instead of waving your virtual [edited]in their face why not offer advice or suggestions on what they are doing wrong and how they can improve.  I know that takes a lot more effort that typing "YOU ARE TEH SUXORR!!!111!!!" but ultimately if you can improve someone's play style it will benefit everyone.... including you.  It will also make you look good in the eyes of the other players.

 

Look at the people who have real respect in the community... Notser, Jingles, Chase, Mouse, Quaffer, Red Raven and many, many others. They earned that respect by helping people improve their game. 

 

Everybody knows their names.  Nobody remembers the big mouthed morons.

 

 

If you are playing in higher tiers, and playing badly, you need to be told so. The problem is, most horribad pubbies think they are doing ok. I have tried being nice in chat and making suggestions, and 9/10 times I get told to stfu. So. now if I see a moron playing like a moron, I call them on it. There are too many players in t7+ now that really have no clue what to do. Just today I have seen t7 CA's 'protecting the CV' when they are top tier ships; if someone that bad doesn't know how to play, they deserve abuse. 

[Pyryck]

"The toxicity in this game is ruining the social aspect of it for everyone, but I reserve the right to be toxic when and where and how I choose."

 

"TKers in this game are ruining the game for everyone which is why I always TK the TKers."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

geeez, the disconnect around here.

 

WE individually only have control over ourselves but we can influence others in the community through our POSITIVE interactions with them.

 

Don't be a part of the problem.  Be a part of the solution.

[JCC45]

 

Don't need anyone to remember me,  this is a game, My fame doesn't come from being good at internet games. I have plenty of notoriety in my real life than to worry about what some game community really thinks of me. That's where you children go wrong, you think being good at games is what makes you a man, or woman.   Helping someone be better at a game, not my goal in life. Those that take the time to make videos, more power to them, it's something they enjoy.

 

Yea yea,  someone is a fortune 500 business owner here,  well  if you suck at gaming.. 

 

I don't claim to be good, I just claim to be better than the person I just seen yolo a Yamato down the middle of Two brothers.  At this point my friend, nothing I can say will make that person realize he is pure crap.

 

Fair enough.  I guess it is just a function of maturity.  I just can't understand why someone would want to be seen as a loud mouthed jerk, when he could be just as easily viewed as helpful and a good person.

 

And thanks for the "children like you"  remark.  Based on your syntax and overall attitude I would bet a weeks pay that I have suits older than you are. 

[Shadowrigger1]

 

Fair enough.  I guess it is just a function of maturity.  I just can't understand why someone would want to be seen as a loud mouthed jerk, when he could be just as easily viewed as helpful and a good person.

 

And thanks for the "children like you"  remark.  Based on your syntax and overall attitude I would bet a weeks pay that I have suits older than you are. 

 

I am just as congratulatory as anyone,  when I see good game play I say so,  I even give a thumbs up to someone who devastated me even if I am a bit pissed at the moment,  but  The true toxicity of this game is in the players that just  click battle and do everything so bad they are handicapping their team.

 

As for the Children, yep, its a mental statement, the hug everyone, feel good, don't invade their safe space people.      I am a huge child in a grown up body, but I am not some emotions vampire,  I have confidence, I don't need someone to say soft words around me.  Tell me like it is I'm a man I can handle it.    And before someone gets their Estrogen in an uproar,  Women can Man up just as well.

[Reymu]

 

Don't need anyone to remember me,  this is a game, My fame doesn't come from being good at internet games. I have plenty of notoriety in my real life than to worry about what some game community really thinks of me. That's where you children go wrong, you think being good at games is what makes you a man, or woman.   Helping someone be better at a game, not my goal in life. Those that take the time to make videos, more power to them, it's something they enjoy.

 

Yea yea,  someone is a fortune 500 business owner here,  well  if you suck at gaming.. 

 

I don't claim to be good, I just claim to be better than the person I just seen yolo a Yamato down the middle of Two brothers.  At this point my friend, nothing I can say will make that person realize he is pure crap.

 

Yes, there's a certain pleasure in pointing out obvious faults in others' playstyle or mistakes, feel like you're smart--catch is ignoring your own faults. Not wise, bro. That's one way to stay short-tempered and whatnot, it's a miserable existence being angry all the time.

 

Ever consider you're upsetting other people that just want to have fun instead of competing? Not everyone is emotionally able to look past the words. I can remember a few times one egotistical slammed me in Tera as a waste of space and it was upsetting; I hadn't learned to shrug it off or laugh it off, and certainly not easy to while upset. It backfired on him when he went to compete in a Tera pvp event; eavesdropped a bit, saw how he was almost ordering his team to pull their weight and all, and 3rd match in they came unhinged and only made top 32, if I remember right.

 

 

If you are playing in higher tiers, and playing badly, you need to be told so. The problem is, most horribad pubbies think they are doing ok. I have tried being nice in chat and making suggestions, and 9/10 times I get told to stfu. So. now if I see a moron playing like a moron, I call them on it. There are too many players in t7+ now that really have no clue what to do. Just today I have seen t7 CA's 'protecting the CV' when they are top tier ships; if someone that bad doesn't know how to play, they deserve abuse. 

 

I generally troll the baddie for leaving his coffee behind Lot more effective and I don't like being angry. Plus, it's kind of fun to laugh at them.

[MnemonScarlet]

"The toxicity in this game is ruining the social aspect of it for everyone, but I reserve the right to be toxic when and where and how I choose."

 

"TKers in this game are ruining the game for everyone which is why I always TK the TKers."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

geeez, the disconnect around here.

 

WE individually only have control over ourselves but we can influence others in the community through our POSITIVE interactions with them.

 

Don't be a part of the problem.  Be a part of the solution.

 

In some cases, they might have been helpful before but sheer obliviousness of their teammates or bads with attitude have exhausted their patience. Can't really blame them, especially after being abused by those guys in ranked. The failgrinders are why I intentionally stopped at a certain rank and refused to play more, because I would rather have fun with the game than try to do competitive play with people who don't care enough to learn. Seeing other players I know like 10t0nhammer almost reach rank 1 and then fall back over and over due to people derping out validated that decision for me. >.>

[Shadowrigger1]

 

 

Ever consider you're upsetting other people that just want to have fun instead of competing? Not everyone is emotionally able to look past the words.

 

 

 

See, this is where the weak minded drones who claim Internet bulling is a thing,  You see, there is the function called blacklist/mute,  if words are too harsh, or ruining your fun, you add that person to it,  guess what,  You are now free from any harmful words, or drama.     When Everyone learns this,  life will be much nicer for them on the thing called the Internet .

[DeathSniper]

It's the world we live in today - where everyone is "speshul" and we have "bubblewrap syndrome" and "ostrich kids".  Don't like something?  Stick your head in the sand and deny it.  Participation ribbons for everyone!

 

It is sad that there are so many people championing for their cause.

[BereanHeart]

Berean - everybody has moments where frustration inspires us to trash talk.  Sometimes, it's understandable or even deserved, depending on exactly what you are saying.  Somebody purposefully throwing a game, or playing like an idiot, needs to be called out, although going full Cartman is to be avoided.  Sometimes, after doing so, we realize we were totally off base - those times, it's worth while to own up to being a jerk ourselves.

 

In general, tho - if you want to improve the community, speak out in games when you see great plays, or somebody making a solid effort.  Consider how often you do something so cool or "pro" in game, and it goes unremarked.  When you see others do something you'd be happy to accomplish, point it out.  The more that sort of thing happens, the less influence the jerks have over the community.

 

In both this game, and WoT, if I see a good or cool play, my team or not, I'll let the player know.  If I see a newer player doing his best, and the "pro's" screaming, I'll take the time, post game if needed, to message them and counter the flames.

 

The hidden bonus is that, if you establish a rep for being reasonable, people will be far more likely to take advice in game, and to work with you.  Which improves the quality of your fun.

 

It's not because I'm a gentle soul, or because I can't handle harsh words - IRL I'm more than capable of being harsh, and giving as good as I get - when it matters.  I aim to be pleasant because it's simply more effective, and enjoyable.

 

Just had that happen today. I'm in ARP Kongo on Fault Line..... north start...... Minekaze pops up like 4 KM from me....... I start bobbing and weaving...... and my team's Sims beelines in to assist.... rams the Mine, but was there to help. Couldn't appreciate that one enough.I love complimenting players........ Even in those close places where they are at least on the way TRYING to assist....... I am the same way, when I do something right, at least being acknowledged I can go "Hey, that was good, let me do that more"