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HMAS Sydney

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HMAS Sydney, named after the Australian city of Sydney, was one of three modified Leander-class light cruisers operated by the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). Ordered for the Royal Navy as HMS Phaeton, the cruiser was purchased by the Australian government and renamed prior to her 1934 launch.

 

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During the early part of her operational history, Sydney helped enforce sanctions during the Abyssinian crisis, and at the start of World War II was assigned to convoy escort and patrol duties in Australian waters. In May 1940, Sydney joined the British Mediterranean Fleet for an eight-month deployment, during which she sank two Italian warships, participated in multiple shore bombardments, and provided support to the Malta Convoys, while receiving minimal damage and no casualties. On her return to Australia in February 1941, Sydney resumed convoy escort and patrol duties in home waters.

 

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On 19 November 1941, Sydney was involved in a mutually destructive engagement with the German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran, and was lost with all 645 aboard. The wrecks of both ships were lost until 2008; Sydney was found on 17 March, five days after her adversary. Sydney's defeat is commonly attributed to the proximity of the two ships during the engagement, and Kormoran's advantages of surprise and rapid, accurate fire. However, the cruiser's loss with all hands compared to the survival of most of the German crew have resulted in controversy, with some alleging that the German commander used illegal ruses to lure Sydney into range, that a Japanese submarine was involved, and that the true events of the battle are concealed behind a wide-ranging cover up.

 

The second ship named HMAS Sydney, the object of the mysterious tragedy, served in the RAN during the Second World War with comparable honour and distinction. Her wartime service began with equivalent success to the previous ship that bore the name HMAS Sydney.

 

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She was dispatched to the Mediterranean under the command of Captain J. A. Collins, where she participated in the first cruiser duel of the war, off Cape Spada along the coast of Crete. Sydney destroyed the Italian light cruiser Bartolomeo Calleoni, and damaged Giovanni Delle Bande Vere, attaining an equal fame achieved by her predecessor back in her homeland. After such a rush of adrenaline, she was ordered to return to the much safer waters of the Australia station, where she performed the less interesting, routine tasks of acting as a training vessel, patrol and escort duties. At 1340 on Rememberance Day, 11 November 1941, the HMAS Sydney departed Freemantle under the command of Captain Joseph Burnett, escorting the 8th Division aboard the Zealandia, bound for Malaya, to the Sunda Strait. There, Sydney rendezvoused with the British cruiser, HMS Durban on 17 November, for the next leg, and the Australian cruiser turned for home: she was scheduled to arrive in Fremantle late on 20 November.

 

Burnett turned his ship back to Freemantle, but by the afternoon of 20 November she had not returned to the Western Australian port. The District Naval Officer in Freemantle, Charles Farquahar-Smith, dispatched a routine signal to the Navy Office in Melbourne at 0940 on 21 November that said "HMAS Sydney has not yet arrived". The senior officers in the Navy Office were not concerned, the Zealandia had arrived a day late in Singapore, so Sydney might not arrive until that afternoon. When Sydney had not arrived after this, worry set in.

 

On the evening of 23 November, Sydney was instructed to break radio silence in order to report its estimated time of arrival, with no reply. Hudson bombers assigned the task of reconissance were dispatched from the RAAF base near the Western Australian city of Pierce the following day, but no trace of the missing ship, or her full compliment of crew, was found.

 

The Australian Navy Office in Melbourne, however, had received indirect information about HMAS Sydney. Nearly three hundred German Kriegsmarines had been found by the Australian ship, Aquitania, floating in liferafts in the Sunda Strait-Freemantle shipping lane. They later claimed that their ship had been sunk by a cruiser. Their ship, the auxillary cruiser, Komoran, had caught alight and had to be abandoned, but not before firing upon the attacking cruiser with shells and torpedoes, setting it alight. The RAN authorities determined that the cruiser in question was the HMAS Sydney, and she evidently ignited so quickly that her full compliment of crew failed to launch the lifeboats, accounting for the lack of versions of the action from the Australian viewpoint. The HMAS Sydney and HSK Komoran, as ships, were not just opposing warships belonging to belligerent nations in what was to be the final action for both ships, but Sydney and Komoran had diametrically opposed careers, the former achieved the greatest fame of all the RAN warships during the Second World War, especially after the action off Cape Spada, whereas the Komoran shunned the limelight.

 

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Converted from a freighter, Komoran's missions required a high level of secrecy, she would be out to sea in little known corners of the globe, for months at a time, hunting unsuspecting merchant shipping. To fulfil this task, Komoran often went in disguise so only the closest scrutiny could tell she was not as she seemed, when Komoran was sighted by Sydney, she was disguised as the Dutch merchant ship, Straat Malakka.

 

The Battle

 

On 19 November 1941, Sydney was involved in a mutually destructive engagement with the German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran, and was lost with all 645 aboard.

 

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Sydney was off the coast of Western Australia, near Carnarvon, and heading south towards Fremantle.  Around 15:55, the cruiser spotted a merchant ship on a northbound course, which quickly turned away from the coast at 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph).[114] Sydney increased speed to 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph) and made to intercept. As she closed the gap, Sydney began to signal the unidentified merchantman, first by signal light, then after no reply was forthcoming and the distance between the two ships had decreased, by a combination of light and signal flag. The merchant ship hoisted her callsign, but as she was ahead and just port of Sydney, the flags were obscured by the funnel. A request from the cruiser that the merchant ship make her signal letters clear, which the signals officer did by lengthening the halyard and swinging the flags clear. The callsign was that of the Dutch ship Straat Malakka, but she was not on Sydney's list of ships meant to be in the area. Further flag signals were exchanged between the ships, with Sydney asking the Dutch ship's destination and cargo.

 

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At 17:00, a distress signal was transmitted by Straat Malakka, indicating that she was being pursued by a merchant raider. Following this, Sydney pulled alongside the merchant ship from astern; pacing the merchantman on a parallel course, approximately 1,300 metres (4,300 ft) away. Sydney's main guns and port torpedo launcher were trained on the ship, while she sent the interior portion of Straat Malakka's secret call sign. Fifteen minutes later, at around 17:30, the merchantman had not replied, and Sydney sent a signal ordering her to show the secret callsign.

 

Straat Malakka had not replied because she was the German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran in disguise, and when asked to reveal a callsign the Germans did not know, they responded by decamouflaging and opened fire. Prompted by the raider's unveiling, Sydney also fired (accounts are divided as to which ship fired first), but while her first salvo either missed or passed through Kormoran's upper superstructure with minimal damage, four of the raider's six 5.9-inch (150 mm) guns (the other two guns were on the port side and could not fire to starboard) were able to destroy the cruiser's bridge and gun director tower, damage the forward turrets, and set the aircraft on fire. Sydney did not fire again until after the raider's sixth salvo: "Y" turret fired without effect, but "X" turret was able to put multiple shells into Kormoran, damaging machinery spaces and one of the raider's guns, while igniting an oil tank. During this, Kormoran maintained heavy fire, and around the time of the eighth or ninth German salvo, a torpedo launched at the start of the engagement hit Sydney just forward of "A" turret and near the ASDIC compartment (the weakest point on the ship's hull), ripping a hole in the side and causing the bow of the cruiser to angle down. Down by the bows, the cruiser swung hard to port, and passed behind Kormoran; during the turn, shells from the raider knocked "B" turret off Sydney.

 

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By 17:35, Sydney was heading south and losing speed, wreathed in smoke from multiple fires. Her main armament was disabled (the two aft turrets had jammed on a port facing and could not be swung around), and her secondary guns were out of effective range. The cruiser continued to be hit by shells from Kormoran's aft guns as the distance between the ships increased. The Germans reported that around 17:45, all four torpedoes from Sydney's starboard launcher were fired, but as Kormoran was manoeuvring to bring her port broadside to bear, they all missed.[130][133] In fact, only two torpedoes from Sydney's port launcher were ever fired, which must have happened some time earlier. The raider's engines broke down after this turn, but she continued to fire on Sydney at a high rate despite being immobilised, although many of the shells would have missed as the distance between the two ships increased. Kormoran ceased fire at 17:50, with the range at 6,600 yards (6,000 m), and launched another torpedo at 18:00, but missed Sydney.

 

The Australian cruiser continued on a south-south-east heading at low speed; observers aboard Kormoran doubted that Sydney was under control. Although disappearing over the horizon shortly later, the glow from the damaged, burning warship was consistently seen by the Germans until about 22:00, and sporadically until midnight. At some point during the night, Sydney lost buoyancy and sank: the bow was torn off as she submerged and descended almost vertically, while the rest of the hull glided 500 metres (1,600 ft) forward as she sank, hitting the bottom upright and stern first. Sydney's shells had crippled Kormoran; the German crew abandoned ship after it was determined that below-deck fires could not be controlled before they reached the gun magazines or the mines in the cargo hold. The raider was scuttled at midnight, and sank slowly until the mine deck exploded half an hour later.

 

Aftermath

Australian Prime Minister John Curtin officially announced the loss of the cruiser during the afternoon of 30 November. Sydney's destruction was a major blow to Australian morale and military capability: her ship's company made up 35% of the RAN's wartime casualties.The cruiser's loss did not have the same impact internationally; two British capital ships were destroyed during the same fortnight, and Japan entered World War II with attacks on Pearl Harbor and Singapore three weeks later.

 

The German survivors were taken to Fremantle and interrogated. Attempts to learn what had happened were hampered by the German officers instructing their sailors to obfuscate the enemy with false answers, people describing events they did not witness but heard of later, and difficulty in keeping groups separated in order to check their stories against each other. Despite this, Australian authorities were able to piece together the broad details of the battle, which was verified by a group of German sailors who had been taken to Sydney instead: their interviews showed the same commonalities and inconsistencies as those in Fremantle, and the interrogators concluded that the true story was being recounted. Interrogations were concluded in December, and by the end of January, Kormoran's crew had been moved to prisoner-of-war camps in Victoria, where they remained until their repatriation to Germany in early 1947.

 

Discovery

Though the location of the Kormoron was known due to German information, the location of the Sydney was still unclear. Then American shipwreck hunter David Mearns began to study the battle as a prelude to a search for the ships in 2001.

 

Sydney was located on 17 March 2008 just after 11:00, only hours after Kormoran's discovery was made public. News that the cruiser had been found was announced by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd on 18 March. Sydney's wreck was located at 26°14′31″S 111°12′48″E at 2,468 metres (8,097 ft) below sea level, 11.4 nautical miles (21.1 km; 13.1 mi) south-east of the raider. The bow of the cruiser had broken off as the ship sank, and was located at the opposite end of a debris field stretching less than 500 metres (1,600 ft) north-west from the hull, which was sitting upright on the ocean floor. On discovery, both wrecks were placed under the protection of the Historic Shipwrecks Act 1976, which penalises anyone disturbing a protected shipwreck with a fine of up to A$10,000 or a maximum five years imprisonment. Both wrecks were placed on the Australian National Heritage List on 14 March 2011.

 

After the side-scan sonar aboard Geosounder was switched out for the ROV (again delayed by technical issues and more bad weather), the survey ship returned to Sydney's wreck site on 3 April, and performed a detailed study of the ship and her debris field. Inspections were also carried out on Kormoran and the believed battle site (the latter found to be outcrops of pillow lava), before Mearns declared the search over on 7 April.

 

The Australian government announced that the wreckage of the Komoran and Sydney were found approximately 112 nautical miles off Steep Point, Western Australia, Sydney's final resting place being twelve nautical miles from the German raider that sunk her.

 

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HMAS Sydney

 

Laid down: 8 July 1933

Launched: 22 September 1934

Christened: HMS Phaeton

Commissioned: 24 September 1935

Identification: Pennant number: I48/D48

Motto: "I Take But I Surrender"

Nickname:

"Stormy Petrel"

"Grey Gladiator"

Fate: Sunk in battle, 19 November 1941

 

Class & type:

Modified Leander-class light cruiser

 

Displacement:

6,701 tons (light)

7,198 tons (standard)

8,940 tons (full load)

Length:

562 ft 4 in (171.40 m) (overall)

530 ft (160 m) (between perpendiculars)

Beam:

56 ft 8.5 in (17.285 m)

Draught:15 ft 3 in (4.65 m) forward

17 ft 3 in (5.26 m) aft

 

Installed power: 72,000 shaft horsepower (54,000 kW)

Propulsion: 4 Admiralty 3-drum boilers, Parsons geared turbines, 4 shafts

Speed: 32.5 knots (60.2 km/h; 37.4 mph)

Range: 7,000 nautical miles (13,000 km; 8,100 mi) at 16 knots (30 km/h; 18 mph)

 

Complement:

33 officers, 557 sailors, 4 RAAF (at commissioning)

41 officers, 594 sailors, 6 RAAF, 4 civilian canteen staff (at loss)

 

Sensors and processing systems: Type 125 asdic

 

Armament:

8 x 6-inch (150 mm) breech-loading Mk XXIII guns (4 x Mk XXI twin turrets)

4 x 4-inch (100 mm) quick firing Mk V guns (4 x Mk IV single high-angle mountings)

12 x 0.5-inch (13 mm) Vickers Mk III machine guns (3 x Mk II quadruple mountings)

14 x 0.303-inch (7.7 mm) Lewis machine guns (reduced to 9 before 1939)

2 x 0.303-inch (7.7 mm) Vickers machine guns (removed before 1939)

8 x 21-inch (530 mm) deck-mounted torpedo tubes (2 x QR Mk VII quadruple mountings, 8 x Mk 9 torpedoes)

4 x 3-pounder (47-mm, 1.9-in) Hochkiss quick-firing saluting guns (removed in 1940)

 

Armour:

1-inch (25 mm) hull plating

3-inch (76 mm) belt over machinery spaces

2-inch (51 mm) belt over magazines and shell rooms

 

Aircraft carried: 1 x Supermarine Walrus

Aviation facilities: 1 x revolving catapult amidship

Edited by Tanz
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Quote

Burnett turned his ship back to Freemantle, but by the afternoon of 20 November she had not returned to the Western Australian port. The District Naval Officer in Freemantle, Charles Farquahar-Smith, dispatched a routine signal to the Navy Office in Melbourne at 0940 on 21 November that said "HMAS Sydney has not yet arrived". The senior officers in the Navy Office were not concerned, the Zealandia had arrived a day late in Singapore, so Sydney might not arrive until that afternoon. When Sydney had not arrived after this, worry set in.

This "lack" of concern is what killed so many aboard the USS Indianapolis. She was also late to port and nobody worried until too late. Out of a complement of close to 1200, only about 300 survived. And of those that died, only about 300 died from the sinking... the rest from the Ocean...

http://en.wikipedia....napolis_(CA-35)
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Awesome Tanz!

I was thinking on writing on this event, but aiming more for the history of the Kormoran and the other "auxiliary cruisers" of the Kriegsmarine.

:Smile_honoring:

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View PostJumarka, on 26 September 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

Awesome Tanz!
I was thinking on writing on this event, but aiming more for the history of the Kormoran and the other "auxiliary cruisers" of the Kriegsmarine.
:Smile_honoring:

To be honest I had never even heard about this... I knew about the German Auxiliary Cruisers..but never really paid them that much attention, since many tend to think German Navy = Bismarck & the others. Then last night I put on a old movie called "Under Ten Flags".
Then that got me to interested. Then I found out about the Sydney, and the tragic and needles loss of her crew.

Look forward to reading you post on the Aux Cruisers.
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Great topic, slightly bummed someone beat me to an Aussie ship battle, but well done none the less :Smile_honoring:

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Great read went through it yesterday, didn't know about this event, makes me love these forums more everyday, so much to learn :)

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What gets me about this tragic affair is why HMAS Sydney appeared to break all the rules about approaching suspicious ships.

 

Before Sydney went down, there had been several cruiser v raider engagements in the Indian and South Atlantic oceans.

 

A kind of "doctrine" had been established about how to examine, shadow and engage these vessels based on these experiences.

 

I found it fascinating to read in one of the books that came out shortly before the wreck of the Sydney was found (I forget its name at the moment) that Captain Burnett may have received conflicting orders just before the tragedy.

 

A week or two before this engagement, an admiralty order went out that it was "imperative" to capture intact enemy supply vessels.

 

This was because the Battle of the Atlantic was at a height at this point - and the Commonwealth was losing too many ships. Tankers, in particular.

 

Of course, capturing a ship involves tactics that fully conflict with dealing with armed raiders... (getting close, in particular)

 

So Burnett may have believed the Cormorant to be a raider support vessel, not a raider itself.

Or, he was trying "too hard" to determine if it was "just" a supply ship in order to capture it.

 

Thus Sydney got too close.

 

Anti-aircraft gunfire appears to have ripped through the bridge and upper-decks in the opening instants of the engagement.

Then the fateful torpedo struck near "A" turret.

It was the structural weakening caused by this hit that led to Sydney's eventual loss - the bows "broke off" as she limped home, perhaps because she was going too fast in her damaged state, perhaps because the sea state was rising, perhaps both - or perhaps the damage was simply too great all along.

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From what I have read:

Kormoran shoot every gun she had at Sydney, the 15cm guns (wich had a rate of fire of about 5 to 7 rounds per minute), also the 20mm AA guns and a couple of 37mm guns. So for about 10 to 20 minutes, Sydney would have been constantly receiving fire and trying to reach the upper deck or the secondary guns would have surely mean certain death. Between the constant shelling, the heavy fires and the torpedo impact, I doubt that the crew had any chance to do anything.

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Very nice video I found about it

 

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View PostCrag_r, on 26 September 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Great topic, slightly bummed someone beat me to an Aussie ship battle, but well done none the less :Smile_honoring:

Sorry for the late response Crag :Smile_unsure: but this post was due to you. You were the only Australian I would see on here, and everyone was posting on ships from the US,UK, Japan, & Germany. So I had to show that the war was not limited to them, and that other countries had to endure tremendous sacrifices as well upon the alter of freedom :Smile_honoring:.
Her story is a tragic one and while some had probably never heard of the Sydney (I know I didn't) now more do, and with that, it helps to keep her memory alive.
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View PostTanz, on 07 October 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Sorry for the late response Crag :Smile_unsure: but this post was due to you. You were the only Australian I would see on here, and everyone was posting on ships from the US,UK, Japan, & Germany. So I had to show that the war was not limited to them, and that other countries had to endure tremendous sacrifices as well upon the alter of freedom :Smile_honoring:.
Her story is a tragic one and while some had probably never heard of the Sydney (I know I didn't) now more do, and with that, it helps to keep her memory alive.

Well done, thanks, you did a better job then i could anyway :Smile_honoring:

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View PostTanz, on 26 September 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

To be honest I had never even heard about this... I knew about the German Auxiliary Cruisers..but never really paid them that much attention, since many tend to think German Navy = Bismarck & the others. Then last night I put on a old movie called "Under Ten Flags".
Then that got me to interested. Then I found out about the Sydney, and the tragic and needles loss of her crew.
Look forward to reading you post on the Aux Cruisers.

Why the words 'tragic and needless loss...' ? It was the time of war and HMAS Sydney was involved in a naval gunfight. There would have been no tragedy and loss of life if the cruiser and her crew stayed at port for the duration of the war.

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View Posttraitorbush, on 12 November 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Why the words 'tragic and needless loss...' ? It was the time of war and HMAS Sydney was involved in a naval gunfight. There would have been no tragedy and loss of life if the cruiser and her crew stayed at port for the duration of the war.

War its self is a tragic and needless loss. Human nature forces it upon us in which case we are forced to partake in it.

Mind you i'm sure if we didn't go to war and merely surrendered to the Axis powers you would not be allowed to make that statement so at least have some respect, for those fallen hero's of both sides. But seriously it is just after Remembrance day, are you really that ignorant?

(-1 if we had them)

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View Posttraitorbush, on 12 November 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Why the words 'tragic and needless loss...' ? It was the time of war and HMAS Sydney was involved in a naval gunfight. There would have been no tragedy and loss of life if the cruiser and her crew stayed at port for the duration of the war.

By your logic, Banzai charges werent a tragic and needless waste of life either.
Edited by Windhover118
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View PostJumarka, on 28 September 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

From what I have read:
Kormoran shoot every gun she had at Sydney, the 15cm guns (wich had a rate of fire of about 5 to 7 rounds per minute), also the 20mm AA guns and a couple of 37mm guns. So for about 10 to 20 minutes, Sydney would have been constantly receiving fire and trying to reach the upper deck or the secondary guns would have surely mean certain death. Between the constant shelling, the heavy fires and the torpedo impact, I doubt that the crew had any chance to do anything.

A cruiser does not need to get the heavy gun crews on deck during an engagement with the enemy ship. They are already there, sitting in their gun turrets. The same goes for the medium caliber guns and for the light ones as well.
When first spotting and then deciding to intercept a suspected enemy ship the captain would give the 'battle stations order' for the gun crews to get to their assigned weapon systems, including the ones on the deck. Giving this order has been for ages a standard military navy procedure. That means that at the time Kormoran fired its guns the HMAS Sydney crews were at their battle stations.
What proved to be decisive regarding the fate of the cruiser was the speed and the accuracy of fire from the german raider. It seems that at the beginning of the battle when the shells from Kormoran hit the bridge of the HMSA Sydney they either seriously damaged or destroyed the Command and Control facilities and ability of the cruiser. I will add, in this case an educated guess, that some of the officers on the bridge, including the captain, were either seriously wounded or killed.
From the account of the gunshell hits on the cruiser we can deduce what were the tactical commands of the german gunnery officers to their gun crews. They were facing a ship of superior armor, firepower and technology. The speed and the accuracy of shooting and the choice of the targets were all critical in this fight. They concentrated the gunfire on the bridge and on the heavy gun turrets of the cruiser and it was the right decision. There was a chance for them to come out of the encounter alive if the heavy guns of the cruiser were silenced early in the battle and if its Command and Control was disabled. It would had been unwise to simply pump shells into the hull of the cruiser as it can take an hour or longer for a cruiser to sink and in the meantime its guns would shred its opponent to pieces.
A hit to the oil tank and the resulting fire in the end doomed the german raider as well but its seamen can thank for their lives the gun crews of Kormoran. On the day they exhibited excellent, really excellent gunnery skills.
R.I.P. to the seamen of the HMAS Sydney and to the seamen of Kormoran and a curse to the memory of those responsible for the unnecessary Second World War.

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View PostWindhover118, on 12 November 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

By your logic, Banzai charges werent a tragic and needless waste of life either.

I assume that by the designation "Banzai charges" you mean the so-called 'kamikaze' pilots. They were known to shout 'Banzai' just before the take-off.
A. - By what logic you assume that my logic posits that "Banzai charges werent a tragic and needless waste of life either." ?
B. - They should have stayed home, screwed their girlfriends and wives and made more japanese babies.
C. - About kamikaze pilots almost nothing is known in the "Western democracies" and in their lackey-servant states around the globe. What is known is a deliberate hate caricature of the men who lived.
The fact that almost nothing is known about them is due to the awful mind controlling and mind destroying hate-propaganda and due to the fabricated and manipulated account of history.

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View Posttraitorbush, on 12 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

I assume that by the designation "Banzai charges" you mean the so-called 'kamikaze' pilots. They were known to shout 'Banzai' just before the take-off.
A. - By what logic you assume that my logic posits that "Banzai charges werent a tragic and needless waste of life either." ?
B. - They should have stayed home, screwed their girlfriends and wives and made more japanese babies.
C. - About kamikaze pilots almost nothing is known in the "Western democracies" and in their lackey-servant states around the globe. What is known is a deliberate hate caricature of the men who lived.
The fact that almost nothing is known about them is due to the awful mind controlling and mind destroying hate-propaganda and due to the fabricated and manipulated account of history.

How quaint, propaganda?

Have you heard of something called the Kadoda Campaign?  When you listen to relatives that fought their against the Japanese, saw the massed attacks and horrendous waste of life in these Banzai attacks you will know that it is not just propaganda, When you have relatives that fought in the Battle of Okinawa, and had to just sit there on their ship while 1500 Kamakazie planes threw themselves at the allies, you will know that it is not just Propaganda.  When you look into the 3000 Men aboard the Yamato sacrificed in a suicide attack, tell me it is just propaganda from ""Western democracies" and in their lackey-servant states around the globe"

We all would like to say that war is a bad thing and everyone should just "They should have stayed home, screwed their girlfriends and wives and made more japanese babies." But the truth is when you life, your families life, all those that you know and your entire way of life and culture is at risk. You will be forced to do things, and make incredible sacrifices. Like it or not war is in Human nature after all, are you not in an argument now?

Please do not be racist on these forums it achieves nothing other then dislike for your self on these forums; ""Western democracies" and in their lackey-servant states around the globe."
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View Posttraitorbush, on 12 November 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

I assume that by the designation "Banzai charges" you mean the so-called 'kamikaze' pilots. They were known to shout 'Banzai' just before the take-off.
A. - By what logic you assume that my logic posits that "Banzai charges werent a tragic and needless waste of life either." ?
B. - They should have stayed home, screwed their girlfriends and wives and made more japanese babies.
C. - About kamikaze pilots almost nothing is known in the "Western democracies" and in their lackey-servant states around the globe. What is known is a deliberate hate caricature of the men who lived.
The fact that almost nothing is known about them is due to the awful mind controlling and mind destroying hate-propaganda and due to the fabricated and manipulated account of history.

You really dont know what a Banzai charge is? Basically the Japanese army would launch waves of infantry at American positions often shouting "Tenno Heika Banzai!". Entire Japanese units were cut down in the face of American machine gun positions. This tactic was often used out of desperation as a final breath from the Japanese army. Although it was supposed to be a desperation move, its successs in China convinced the Japanese military to use it as a standard attack method. It was used throughout the war but it probably most famous for its use on Guadalcanal along the Henderson feild perimeter where US marines repulsed wave after wave. The Japanese were essentially useing WWI tactics.

Its funny that you think we know nothing about Kamikaze attacks. The Japanese followed a corrupted version of the Bushido code which was drilled into their minds from an early age. The Bushido code emphasis virtues which many could consider good virtues to follow, honor, respect, courage etc. The Japanese believed that it was honorable to die in battle and that a warrior should fight to his dieing breath. This was the way of the Samurai. However, the Japanese military used the Bushido code as justification for suicide attacks such as the Kamikaze. The Bushido code didnt really condone such acts. The Bushido code dictated that a warrior should face his enemy only commiting suicide in the face of defeat. This may seem extreme to many but this was their way. The Japanese pilots who flew the Kamikaze missions believed that thier families and their very way of life was being threatened and they were prepared to die for it. They felt that performing the Kamikaze missions would bring honor to themselves and their families while damaging the enemy and perhaps keeping their families safe for one more day.
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oh yeah i was reading about these two ships in a naval book only yesterday. on another note, when the game comes out i will fire on every npc merchant ship in sight when i play  :Smile_playing: (just to be safe)

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View PostDR_McNinja, on 12 November 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

oh yeah i was reading about these two ships in a naval book only yesterday. on another note, when the game comes out i will fire on every npc merchant ship in sight when i play  :Smile_playing: (just to be safe)

haha, Next year at some point it starts testing, at the end of next year or start of the next the game will be released.

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