Can someone explain the Pensacola hate?

[Totallamer]

So I finished the German grind a couple of weeks back (absolutely LOVE the Hindy) and started on the US cruiser line. Got to the Pensacola yesterday expecting much wailing and gnashing of teeth but... no? This ship is awesome! Or at least my first few battles (free-XP'd through the upgrades) have gone really well, I don't know. It's small for a higher tier CA which makes it nimble. It has adequate range for the tier on a set of extremely rewarding guns. The HE is pretty alright but the AP? It's just so, so good. Great damage rolls on CAs and BBs alike. Reasonable dispersion and pretty good arcs compared to the Cleveland. Is it fragile? Yes. But what cruiser isn't?

[Sinboto]

The complaints come from new players getting into the line, otherwise everyone loves the pepsicola...as citadel practice. 

[Totallamer]

I guess my only real complaint is that the turret rotation is a bit slow. Can't quite keep up with the ship in a hard turn. But on that note the firing arcs in those turrets is amazing... the thing can practically fire the rear guns straight ahead!

[Carrier_Taiyo]

The complaints come from new players who were spoiled by the Cleveland. Players who just sling HE at everything while sailing broadside to battleships, surviving because Cleveland's citadel was so hard to hit.

[WanderingGhost]

Part of it is the fact you go from 12 rapid fire 152's that can do decent damage and DPS, and track targets well, to 10 203's (if I recall correctly), that don't rack as well, take, by comparison, forever to reload, and doesn't have quite as devastating AA. more often than not, especially on the stock grind, Pensicola feels more like a downgrade. it just feels lacking.

 

That said, Sinboto actually makes kind of a point. I may not have learned where all to aim to get consistent citadel hits but, Pensicola's seem to take a lot of them.

[gurudennis]

Pensacola is a wannabe heavy cruiser stuck in a light cruiser hull. As such she's got a decent damage potential in the right hands/situations (btw, turret traverse is very slow), but zero survivability. She just can't take fire at all and gets citadel'd by 8 and even 6-inch guns from any angle including bow-on. In my books, this translates to a pretty awkward ship to captain.

 

I for one prioritize Pensacolas on sight and it rarely takes more than 3-4 well placed cruiser salvos to take her from 100% to 0%.

 

Edit: Everything's relative of course. In broad strokes, the USN CA line goes downhill after Cleveland, Baltimore being the culmination of misery, and only recovers at T10.

[Tazarak_Brutal]

Aside from the fragility and taking citadels stern / bow facing (which German CAs suffer too), the detection range is the real achilles heel. You cannot escape detection to make turns, and everyone on the map has you spotted waiting for you to turn to delete you.

[Retnav54]

Back in CBT, I actually found the Pensacola to be an enjoyable ship to play (once it was fully upgraded). Back then, it was the original "glass cannon", as the Konigsberg and Nurnberg are now as well, and took a similar play style. Picked it up once again during the USN sale the other week, haven't got around to fitting it out and using it yet, partly waiting to see how 5.3 shakes out.

 

[Gothik_Knight]

  Pensacola is large and easy to citadel and is easy to see from long distances, meaning that it is more likely to draw fire from the entire enemy team than most other ships are.  That and the slow traversing, long reload, guns make the Pensacola horrible at performing it's primary job, which is to destroy enemy destroyers.  Until the changes in this patch, Pensacola was also the first USN cruiser whose primary artillery would be less enhanced by the captains skills, so Cleveland, having two fewer guns, could pump out as much or more damage.  While these problems aren't insurmountable, they're a little more than "Noobs just don't know how to play the ship".  Until the most recent patch, Pensacola was arguably a downgrade compared Cleveland.  After all, the problems with the Cleveland are high arc and low projectile velocity.. both things which can not only be compensated for by learning the ship, but they can also become advantages. One might argue that people who enjoy Pensacola are just "noobs who don't know how to play Cleveland". I believe that, with the changes to the captain skills, Pensacola will become a definite upgrade to Cleveland.  Sadly, this won't be because of any improvement to Pensacola, but rather it's yet another nerf to Cleveland.  For the record, Pensacola has the 15th worse win/loss in the game (New Orleans is 16).  I haven't played the Baltimore yet, but I'm not really in a hurry to see what the worst win/loss ship in the game feels like.. and that may be another problem with the Pensacola.  The New Orleans grind is only slightly better and Baltimore is the worst in the game, Des Moines ultimately doesn't perform as well as Cleveland, so I imagine the simple thought that your best days are behind you weighs heavily on many USN cruiser players when they get to playing Pensacola.

[Fourty4zWonTheWest]

Shooting at them makes for some juicy damage.

[Ort]

  Pensacola is large and easy to citadel and is easy to see from long distances, meaning that it is more likely to draw fire from the entire enemy team than most other ships are ...

 

Pretty much this.

 

Just imagine the ship you are playing somehow for no special reason has the fame of being "free kill" or "free citadels". Even if it is not 100% true, (more) people would target you just because of that. So you end up being forced to pull back and get out of their range (and yours too) or reach that point where you cannot dodge fully from numerous attackers and risk dying rather quickly.

 

I have a Pensacola too and I have been many games where the enemy team lost a lot of ships because they were totally focused on me (especially when I am half-health). And sure, it did contribute to some of the wins but it's not like you are rewarded actively (XP/credits) by being the decoy or it's that super fun when it happens too often. However, I really don't see it being that must worse than others glass-cannons of the same tier.

 

 

Basically, the problem comes more from the behaviour of others than the ship's specification. There are ships that are like glass cannon just like Pensacola but does not suffer the same issue, simply because you have much lower risk of having everyone who can fire at you to do so.

[mxlm]

Basically, the problem comes more from the behaviour of others than the ship's specification. There are ships that are like glass cannon just like Pensacola but does not suffer the same issue, simply because you have much lower risk of having everyone who can fire at you to do so.

No, it's the stats. If its detection range was 11km it wouldn't always be the first spotted cruiser and, therefore, the first squishy target for battleships to shoot at. But it has a 15km detection range and is spotted first and is squishy as hell, so everybody shoots at it. 

[Tazarak_Brutal]

I haven't played the Baltimore yet, but I'm not really in a hurry to see what the worst win/loss ship in the game feels like.. and that may be another problem with the Pensacola.  The New Orleans grind is only slightly better and Baltimore is the worst in the game, Des Moines ultimately doesn't perform as well as Cleveland, so I imagine the simple thought that your best days are behind you weighs heavily on many USN cruiser players when they get to playing Pensacola.

 

The Baltimore is like the New Orleans, but with turrets that get blown up every single match.  If you ever finish a match with all 3 turrets remaining, make a note of it.

 

I have Des Moines on both NA and EU, because I'm American and American is #1.  But, the Atago is 1000% more fun in a T10 match than the Des Moines, so I end up playing it most often.  That's if I can stand to play cruisers at all above T7, which some times takes convincing myself or a few beers and a "Oh what the hell, what's the worse that can happen?" kind of attitude.

[Jakob_Knight]

Also, some of the bad reputation of the ship comes from the time when you only had twin turrets on the ship, which left it undergunned.  With the ship getting its eight-gun setup as normal, the ship isn't as bad as it used to be.

[JSFWRX85]

Also, some of the bad reputation of the ship comes from the time when you only had twin turrets on the ship, which left it undergunned.  With the ship getting its eight-gun setup as normal, the ship isn't as bad as it used to be.

 

when did they switch that? I remember it back in CBT. But only recently got back into the U.S. Cruiser line

[Totallamer]

Yeah I dunno I just don't get the Cleveland love. I mean they fire fast-ish and all but the rotation isn't all that amazing either, the arc is atrocious at anything over 12km and the damage is just okay. Not to say that spamming 6" AP into a cruiser's broadside at 10km on that quick a reload with 12 barrels wasn't amusing and all but the Pensy's guns just feel flat out better in all ways but the reload time... which is just an inherent fact of CLs vs CAs. Hell I citadeled an Iowa in the thing!

[Jakob_Knight]

 

when did they switch that? I remember it back in CBT. But only recently got back into the U.S. Cruiser line

 

 

I don't remember the exact patch number, but I believe it was a few months ago.

[Mannstien]

Yeah I dunno I just don't get the Cleveland love. I mean they fire fast-ish and all but the rotation isn't all that amazing either, the arc is atrocious at anything over 12km and the damage is just okay. Not to say that spamming 6" AP into a cruiser's broadside at 10km on that quick a reload with 12 barrels wasn't amusing and all but the Pensy's guns just feel flat out better in all ways but the reload time... which is just an inherent fact of CLs vs CAs. Hell I citadeled an Iowa in the thing!

 

I think the transition will not be as harsh with Cleveland not having BFT or EM anymore (at least the beefed up EM), personally I gave her a sail on the PTS awhile ago before the changes in 5.3 and didn't understand why she was still loved/hated. Not the same ship from OBT it felt like.

[TitiuBlack]

Its can explain... 

[Shadowrigger1]

 Or at least my first few battles (free-XP'd through the upgrades) have gone really well, I

 

This right here is your problem.          Why do a lot of people hate it ?   Grind through it.  you skipped all the pain. Duh.

[ButtesVonToota]

The Pensa stock is horrendous and probably for many players who don't free xp at least some of the major upgrades off the bat can be a very painful step down from the Cleveland where they are used to going toe to toe with any other ship. I think you also start to get a taste of higher tier ship damage dealing where BBs can reach out and touch you from nearly the starting positions of the map and with a lucky shot, take out 80% of your HP or vaporize you in 1 salvo where as the Cleve could take a beating untless you were totally careless with your broadsides.

[Skpstr]

The complaints come from new players who were spoiled by the Cleveland. Players who just sling HE at everything while sailing broadside to battleships, surviving because Cleveland's citadel was so hard to hit.

 

That's kinda my thought too. Similar to going from Kuma to Furutaka. I'm kind of looking forward to it, but not quite halfway there, and playing the Cleveland has become kind of a chore lol.

[Sakuzhi]

  Pensacola horrible at performing it's primary job, which is to destroy enemy destroyers

 

You need to get out of that mindset.

 

Your primary job is to support your Team, be it against DDs when someone else spots them, or against Aircraft, or against other Cruisers.

 

A CA (Cruiser, armored) is designed to beat up on lighter-built Cruisers, which 8" Guns do very well when you use AP against them.

 

The problem is that the Cheeseland with it's overly small citadels makes Cruiser-players get away with too much so they don't know any better then they get into the P-Cola and realize that 16" AP rounds to your Citadel from any angle will rekt your face, and fast.

[Taichunger]

Pensacola? When WG said if we killed 5 ships we could win a chance to test the Konigsberg, I got in my Fuso. When I saw that MM had given the other team 3 Pensacolas, I knew 5 kills were in the bag. 

 

You skipped stock, smart idea. The B hull Pepsicola is a playable ship, sometimes even fun. But she's so easy to citadel, by almost any size gun, from any angle. 

 

Just wait til you upgrade to New Orleans. The New Ordeal is nearly as easy to cit from a BB, has one less gun, and faces much tougher opponents. I quit the USN cruiser line at the New Ordeal. Just not worth it. 

[Sakuzhi]

 But she's so easy to citadel, by almost any size gun, from any angle. 

 There really is no T7+ Cruiser that is difficult to citadel.

 

Sans 'maybe' the hindenberg.