Furutaka Tips Requested

[evilleMonkeigh]

I know there's probably a Furutaka post every week (either saying its awesome or it sucks).

I appreciate the help I got regarding Gnevny tips (things are improving), so here's my problems:

 

Red = areas I'm really struggling to overcome; feels like a brick wall

Yellow = meh, I can adapt and live with it

Green = good points

Here's my take from my limited experience so far....

 

RoF/DPS.  This is the big one.  It simply doesn't deal damage quickly enough.   In a "spammier" cruiser you can fire a "ranging" volley of 5-6 rounds, and then follow up with another in a few seconds. The ability to rapidly "correct" fire I think increases effective dps to 6" guns beyond the math and stats. 

"I citadel cruisers all day" "I 1-volley Omahas off the map"

Honestly I don't see this sort of accuracy.  Most shots (both aimed by me and against me) are flat out hitting the ship. What's the average players' accuracy - 30-35%?  Maybe with enemies obligingly broadside or at closer range (under 8km)  but we're heading into brawling range....  which seems a bit of a no-no for the Furutaka- then you've got the gun traverse being an issue, not to mention continuously burning from a hail of HE shells....   It seems reliant on RNG, whereas its opponents have continuous, reliable damage.

 

Furthermore, cruisers are only 33% or so of the ships in a game, so even excellence at "citadelling" cruisers with AP does not compensate for the loss of dps against majority of ships.  Seems easily enough "citadelled" in return so it doesn't seem a significant advantage.

My math may be dodgy, but it seems like Fututaka AP - it's "best" shell? -  is outperformed by AP dpm by other Tier 5s in by 1.5x to 2x (~3x for Konigsberg?).  More to the point, HE spam (even by tier 4s) out-damages even precise Furutaka AP fire by 1.5x.   Yes, you could say Furutaka has more reliable AP pen, but it is also pretty easily penned in return, and slow turret speed (and range) also reduces "effective" dpm on target. The average damage seems to reflect this.

 

Gun range.  The Phoenix and Kuma (T4) can outshoot it, let alone the T5 rivals.  Surely a 8" gun would go further than a 6"?  This is, I agree, somewhat compensated by it's accuracy and flat arc. Nonetheless there's been a few rounds I was happily raining shots on a Furutaka from a Konigsburg, immune from return fire. "With a Tier 10 captain, Furutaka rocks!"

I'm sure AFT would help a lot, but I'm not sure if I want to stick around in the Furutaka that long as I'm not finding it very enjoyable.

 

Gun traverse. I'm getting used to this on the Gnevny. Yes, you can pre-turn your guns, treat it like it's a BB - but it's a handicap.  It reduces the "effective" RoF. I feel like I should have simply brought a real BB instead. That said, it can be "worked around."

 

Squishy.  "Angle your ship".  Yup, got it.   It doesn't feel as bad as the Konigsberg which seems to fall apart at a harsh look.   "Shoot at distracted enemies" Sure. But everything works better when there isn't return fire.  In WoT, this was a euphemism for saying "over reliant on team mates" /"below-average tank"

 

A bit ponderous.  It's pleasantly fast, but not terribly agile.  Having to start dodging the moment you even get a whiff of a torpedo bomber or destroyer makes the "angling" and "pre-aiming" of guns more problematic. 

 

10km torpedoes!   Useful-ish, but not a major selling point, as most opponents do not obligingly continue on the same course for the time it takes for them to travel 10km.  It doesn't seem enough of an improvement over, say, Konigsberg torpedoes as to be worth the firepower tradeoff.   At the "extra" 7-10km range it is more about deterrant/random hits.   I personally struggle to find good firing opportunities as being back with the blob means there are often friendlies too close to my line of fire.

 

Accuracy. Gun arc seems remarkably flat/consistent. The best thing about the Furutaka (besides it's looks, though why no twin turrets? The WW2 pics I see looks better).  However firing ranging shots takes a significant chunk of firepower and the need to "reacquire" targets after each shot reduces the practical accuracy in game.

 

So far.....

 I'm trying to stick with/behind the blob (aka battleships or other cruisers), angling the ship out to shoot, then tucking the tail in again, hopefully maintaining 10-13km range.   My torpedoes rarely get used as there tend to be friendlies in front/around. 

 

Sadly this results in good survival but poor damage and little meaningful contribution to the match, and I get less damage than other Furutakas who yolo into the thick of the enemy fleet hoping for a couple of torpedo hits.

 

The above comments are from my own limited experience, and perhaps my 200+ ping exacerbates matters, though it seems not to be a problem in 95% of my other ships. 

Any tips (especially in dealing with the dpm/RoF and range) is appreciated. 

[Hatework]

Im far from an expert, but some things i picked up during my time in the furutaka:

 

1. the rudder shift upgrade was amazing.  she can dance around enemy fire, and the Aoba is even better at it.  Angling is important in any ship, and with the turret layout of the furutaka, the ability to turn, fire, and get back to hiding your citadel is important.

2. ignore the torpedoes.  They're situational at best, often used for covering a rapid retreat, or a last ditch attack when i knew i was going to die.

3. shes just practice.  I expected the Aoba to outperform her (and she does,) so i focused on learning effective tactics while in the furutaka rather than on learning to drive the ship perfectly.

4. I tend to play aggressively, driving into the enemy to hit hard and fast, but knowing when to fall back and let them focus on someone else while i reposition to reengage.

5. the range never felt like it was a hinderance since most maps you can use islands to get into range without having to worry about most fire.  Again, given my aggressive playstyle, i was often in range to fire before an enemy CAs second salvo was in the air.

6. i found the best folks to run with were destroyers.  I had the best success if the enemy was worried aboout a DD while they also had to contend with me.  Im not sure the DDs appreciated it sometimes, but if it works it works.

 

All in all, i wasn't really in the furutaka long enough to go crazy learning how to shoot her perfectly.  Instead, i used the time to prepare for how i expected the Aoba to handle.  Getting practice in how the IJN cruisers function in the mid tiers. 

[Seraphil]

On RoF and damage: Furutaka is all about precision and alpha-strike damage over rate of fire and DPM.  Since you have single-gun turrets, you can afford to waste some of your damage for a ranging shot(conversely, a ship like Koenigsberg has to waste 3 guns for a ranging shot) but eventually you'll not need ranging shots much when you get a good feel for how long you shells take to reach their destination.  You should only use HE in three scenarios: fighting destroyers, setting an enemy carrier on fire to lock down his planes, and fighting battleships that are not broadside to you.

 

The Furutaka mounts 203mm guns, which are a beautiful caliber in World of Warships as it's big enough to penetrate battleships up to a certain tier(I've experienced citadel hits on Wyoming, Myogi, Kongo and Fuso) but also not so big that it will overpen destroyers constantly(though depending on the destroyer it's generally better to use HE.)

 

On range: General rule by Wargaming is that range is tied to the height of the primary rangefinder.  However, I think Furutaka probably has even less range comparatively to balance the power of the 203mm guns.  AFT does not work for her on that note.  Also, Kuma has less range.

 

Generally, you want to use Furutaka's speed to put yourself into locations where the enemy is stuck in your golden zone: 9 to 13 kilometers.  The American 152mm gun has problems penetrating your armor at over 8km distance, and their shell travel speed is poor so dodging HE shells is easier than you'd think.

 

On traverse: Use the traverse upgrade equipment.  The hit to rof is inconsequential since you have single-gun turrets and are going to be staggering your shots most of the time anyway.

 

On armor: It's not so much how good the armor is, but how good the armor is against the enemies you need to fight.  Furutaka has no business taking on battleships directly unless other options aren't available.  By that I mean if you do engage enemy battleships, make sure they're fighting someone else first.  Cruisers will generally be your primary opponent, and thankfully at tier 5 many of them will be HE spammers.  Destroyer guns are nothing to worry about unless they're particularly close and you're fully broadside to them, and even then 9 times out of 10 they'll be using HE which will do superficial damage to you.

 

On torpedoes: Furutaka has the choice of either fast 6km or slower 10km torpedoes.  If you like the idea of swinging in close to a battleship and giving him fish, then the 6km torpedoes are a better option.  If you use your torpedoes reactively/defensively, again the 6km ones are better.  Basically if your intent with torpedoes is to do damage with them, pick the fast 6km ones.  The 10km torpedoes are more for herding the enemy, either cutting them off from a route you don't want them to take, or to make them expose their broadside for your guns.  If you get a hit, awesome, but don't count on it being your primary source of damage.

[evilleMonkeigh]

On traverse: Use the traverse upgrade equipment.  The hit to rof is inconsequential since you have single-gun turrets and are going to be staggering your shots most of the time anyway.

 

I've agonised over this with the Gnevny too - but I haven't so far as a -10% RoF is a "hard" cap which I cannot compensate for (I always seem to be sitting around waiting that last second to reload), whereas the +15% traverse I can mitigate with maneuvering/planning.

 

Does it improve quality of life that much?

[Fletcher7_1944]

  Totally tangential, but am I the only one that calls this ship the Fuzzy Taco??

[MnemonScarlet]

OP, lemme see if I can help you out!

 

RoF/DPS: This is going to be the big point of adjustment from CLs to CAs in general. Your 8 inch just won't match the 6 inch in RoF, so you want to treat it like a mini-battleship. Go for citadels if you can, and don't expose yours. I main battleships, so trying to make each salvo count is second nature to me. My hit ratio with the taco's guns is 40%, and she hasn't been played (no captain right now) since I got Aoba. You can do it too though, the RNG you deal with in BBs is just not there. One of my other comments will actually make the RoF worse, but if you make shots count it's not so bad. The upgraded guns are a bit nicer, so there's that. Using your guns well requires you be able to survive so you get more shots in but can use as many guns as effectively as possible, and the later hull upgrades give you a faster rudder to accomplish this. Your HE is also more powerful than say a Omaha's, and the fire chance is also better. They set you on fire, do it right back to them if both of you are angling. That HE shell will also wreck DDs.

 

Gun range: This is bad, I won't sugarcoat it. 13 km maxed upgrades is terrible even for the tier, you'll have to learn how to use islands and other cover (like DD smoke, but be careful cause they smoke near enemy DDs a lot and torps get launched on both sides) pretty regularly. A lot of times you'll have to wait for the engagements to begin locally so you can slide in and capitalize on any openings (easy cits/torpable ships) that people have let show up in their play to try and get the advantage over their initial opponents. IJN gets a very rough introduction to necessary mechanical/tactical methods with the Furutaka (don't engage carelessly/use cover) and Myogi (angle or die/place your shots), but if you stick with it you'll be able to do those infuriating things you may have seen experienced players do.

 

Gun traverse: This isn't red, but my advice is get the mod that lowers RoF and gives you better traverse rate (main battery modification 2). It'll hurt your RoF, but with a CA you want your nasty shells to cit the other guy first. Maneuvering to live needs to be a priority over getting your guns aligned perfectly, because that's not much use when you die after your initial volley because someone saw juicy CA sides wide open and citadeled you instead. So you want your gun turrets to do as much of the traverse work as they can themselves, foremost, and then use maneuvering to make up what's left. This is especially important with Furu, because you have 3 guns forward, and one of them is backwards facing. So your front angled firepower drops by a third, from 3 to 2 guns, whenever you have to shift your angle to the other side. That time may make the difference between a broadside CL burning you down or a DD getting his torps off if you're chasing him down.

 

As for the torpedoes, pick whichever you feel more comfortable with. I will say that there are a decent amount of players in the sea - even good ones - who occasionally sail right into those slow 10 km torps. Just make sure there's no friendlies around to eat them instead. And I did take down a few BBs with them, one of them was a Nagato who was (IIRC) better than me. It was in Fault Line, we both got into the middle and had survived into late game, but he had quite a lot of health left. There was just nowhere for him to go due to the southern-center island being on one side, so he ate 2 or 3 torps, flooded out, and that was the end for him. Those slow torps also do about 1.6k more damage, which can be important sometimes. If you like to live dangerously the 6 km ones might be better.

 

Once you upgrade the ship all the way, she'll be much more responsive and fun to drive. I kept mine, because quite simply she's fun for a tier 5 cruiser. I played my Murmansk a lot better after I'd had Furutaka for a bit too, so it's not like those lessons are lost on CLs with better RoF.

[GearaDoga]

The sad fact is, with 8" guns, you simply can't match your peers.

 

Even assuming that every shot you fire is somehow magically a perfect Citadel, Omaha will still pump out 50% more damage than you, simply due to having more, faster, more effective guns.

 

It basically boils down to hoping you hit more than the other guy, and he can't hit you very well in return.

[evilleMonkeigh]

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

 

So the verdict is: definitely turret traverse mod (once it goes on, it ain't comin off, so I'm a bit wary)

What is the difference in traverse time?  The Gnevny has similar turrets but on it the captain skill made a huge difference (10 sec) and the turret upgrade not so much  (2-3 sec)...

 

I do have it upgraded to C hull, (A was hideous!) the only thing I haven't bought is the 10km torpedoes as so far I haven't had much opportunity to use torpedoes due to the "stay with the pack" mentality...   ...and I may need the XP to get out of the Furutaka faster, if I don't improve my damage dealt radically.  The Aoba seems to have 50% higher RoF/DPS so I expect it will be more manageable. 

 

Even assuming that every shot you fire is somehow magically a perfect Citadel, Omaha will still pump out 50% more damage than you, simply due to having more, faster, more effective guns.

 Yes, this is my #1 concern. I must try for precise AP citadels, and my opponent can merely spam HE and still do ~50% more damage in the same time frame.  That they can do it from further away is also troubling.

 

[CriticalHit]

You are right in saying the Aoba is superior to a Furu in pretty much every category, but to become a skilled Aoba driver you need to master Furu driving, so it's a good ramp-up to it. 

 

Rof/DPS - This is the biggest turn off to most new Furu drivers/detractors. As has been said, Furu is all about the Alpha damage, and you absolutely need to take advantage of the top rate accuracy/flight time of your guns to get those all important Citadels. Don't be afraid to use AP on the lighter BBs if they are conceding their Broadside to you, the 203s can do some good damage there. You aren't going to win a brawl with anything other than some DDs, but you WILL win a marksmanship duel where you land more hard hitting shots, br

 

Gun Range - Like Seraphil mentioned earlier, your golden area is towards the max range of your guns, 9km+. Your AP is still effective here and the USN ships can only lob slow HE back towards you and you can dodge pretty readily. That's the biggest misconception with the Furu (and Aoba as well), they maintain effectiveness with their guns even near max range.

 

Gun Traverse - What you lose in rotation speed you gain in pretty solid Arc of Fire. Get used to it since it doesn't really change much at higher tiers. I've found it kind of helps you train to make slower turns to keep your speed up as well.

 

Squishiness - You covered it well. This thing was the Tier V glass cannon untill the Konig emphatically took that title when it came out. Angle or die, it's a harsh but much needed lesson for the future.

 

Agility - Your statement is dead on. Coupled with what I said earlier about limiting yourself to half rudder turns it holds it's speed well enough. Save the hard over turns for when you need to bleed off some speed to make your dodges less predictable.

 

Torpedos - One of the uses I've found for them is when you are keeping a target angled on your rear quarter, you can drop a narrow spread of torps in your pursuer's path to force a turn from them, hopefully giving you a window to get a Citadel shot in.

 

Accuracy - The best quality about this boat. Once you learn how to take full advantage of your good shot flight times, you will be able to land consistent hits even at max range, which is what you need to get the most performance out of this boat.

 

I'm not going to argue this thing is one of the best pound for pound cruisers out there, but it is deceptively good, and constantly underestimated. In the hands of an experienced driver you can punch with the best of them.

[evilleMonkeigh]

Thanks for the help.  I've improved steadily.  Damage numbers aren't huge, but consistently getting kills and now above 60% WR.

Even picked up a 3000XP 5-kill Kraken lately which I did NOT expect in a Furutaka, and it's coped OK in Tier 7.  

 

I think my main thought is it's a little less fragile than it first seems, and if you follow the "attack when enemies aren't looking" mantra this attack should include closing to under 10km range before breaking away, before heavy fire starts to be directed your way. 

[alexf24]

Furutaka is a great ship and definitely a must-learn if you plan to continue up the IJN CA line. It is the first encounter you have with a heavy cruiser (CA) at T5. USN does not have it until T7 with Pensacola.

 

Furutaka's main issue, to me, is the range of the guns. Everything else is good. Learn the ship, and you will like Aoba more, and Myoko will surprise you as the best T7 CA in game.  Atago/Mogami can dominate the CA scene in T8.

 

CAs are an important class of ship to learn. Those 203mm do not have the RoF of the light cruiser's guns, but they do pack a punch.

[evilleMonkeigh]

Agreed about the range. 14km would make it "good" and competitive with high dps cruisers.  15km+ (which makes sense for 8" guns) would make it borderline OP. 

 

It's certainly given me confidence and made me excited about further heavy cruisers.  After my first dozen games struggled to get damage (perhaps too conservative) it stabilized, then it has raked in kills and damage over the last half dozen (30k-70k damage) and 2-5 kills per game, making previously abysmal stats decent.

 

Interestingly, I've found it reliable against Clevelands in 11-13km gun duels as it can pen the Cleveland's usually tough citadel and its accuracy enables it to compete the with US "mortars." 

Certainly requires a different style of player (the other ships I struggle - Myogi and Gnevny - also switched playstyles dramatically from what i regarded as "normal" - although the former has likewise blossomed)

 

Perhaps the best tip is:  Play the ship often, have patience

[CriticalHit]

I'm partly convinced the poor stats/reputation of the Furu comes from the front half of people's time in it where they have to learn the dramatically different playstyle from the Kuma. The group that does make the leap aren't able to overcome the stats of those that don't to lift it to it's proper spot. Those that don't complain on the Forums, lol.

 

Good to hear you're getting the hang of it and sounds like you've come to a lot of the same conclusions I did driving it. People seem astonished to think it can duke it out with a Cleveland, but the shell flight times do make a huge difference for your ability to dodge.