AP over penetration - over pen - overpen - quick question

[Herr_Reitz]

Thinking about overpen from a BB on any non-BB ship... 

 

Wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't overpen from a BB result in flooding, almost immediately?

Does it? 

 

If now, why not? Wouldn't an AP round the size/weight fired from a BB stand a darn good chance of penetrating right through the bottom of the enemy target? 

 

Thanks as always! 

[Ded_Lox]

Thinking about overpen from a BB on any non-BB ship... 

 

Wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't overpen from a BB result in flooding, almost immediately?

Does it? 

 

If now, why not? Wouldn't an AP round the size/weight fired from a BB stand a darn good chance of penetrating right through the bottom of the enemy target? 

 

Thanks as always! 

 

Just to give an excuse, I'm going to say no, since most overpens occur above the water line? Best I could come up with sorry...

[IKU19]

They considered it, figured it would be OP.

 

Overpen is supposed to punish you for not using HE when your penetration is too high, if they give overpen flooding then it's more effective than regular pens.

[Batwingsix]

Nothing like every ship flooding within the first 5 minutes of the game with repair party on cooldown

[IKU19]

Nothing like every ship flooding within the first 5 minutes of the game with repair party on cooldown

 

This is why it would be OP.

 

Almost every overpen hit would be a flood, and since flooding does between 35% and 60% ship damage, that's more than a citadel if the repair is burnt.

[Carrier_Taiyo]

Nothing like every ship flooding within the first 5 minutes of the game with repair party on cooldown

 

^^^^

[Jinxed_Katajainen]

 

This is why it would be OP.

 

Almost every overpen hit would be a flood, and since flooding does between 35% and 60% ship damage, that's more than a citadel if the repair is burnt.

 

It could be limited to non citadel hits that enter/exit underwater.

It could also be a smaller scale flood doing much less damage.

[Marttt1nek]

 

It could be limited to non citadel hits that enter/exit underwater.

It could also be a smaller scale flood doing much less damage.

 

Or it could just stay as it is...

[IKU19]

 

It could be limited to non citadel hits that enter/exit underwater.

It could also be a smaller scale flood doing much less damage.

 

That still would be the majority of penetrations.

[Herr_Reitz]

Well okay then... it all makes sense now, thanks

[Acersage]

Just my 2 cents worth but I believe that Over pen should cause flooding damage just at a 90 to 95% reduced damage  that way its not to OP.

[Xanthro]

 

Wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't overpen from a BB result in flooding, almost immediately?

Does it? 

No, it doesn't nor should it. There is no such thing as an overpen that exits below the water line, which would be required to cause flooding, that's as the hit would have to pass through the citadel and would be credited as a citadel hit.

An AP overpen enters above the water line and exits above the water line and doesn't explode inside the ship, so it does less damage than a normal hit.

This actually happened during WWII, when the Japanese Battleship ambushed some escort carriers and couldn't do much damage because the shells just punched holes in the thin armor and didn't explode.

 

[Scoobus]

Wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't overpen from a BB result in flooding, almost immediately?

 

Does it? 

 

No, it doesn't nor should it. There is no such thing as an overpen that exits below the water line, which would be required to cause flooding, that's as the hit would have to pass through the citadel and would be credited as a citadel hit.

 

 

I completely disagree,

 

There are plenty of Over pens that exist below the water line, especially with ships that have a high ark on there trajectory, that equals plunging fire and most certainly will pass though from top to bottom.

The reason we don't see more citadels, is the simple fact that Citadels mainly are located in the center on CC and Cv classes, leavening the front and the rear open for Over pens.

the second biggest reason is that DD class don't have Citadel, leavening there hole ship open for Over pens.

 

 

Now why A Over pen SHOULD and Should not  cause flooding from a BB

Well lets look at it this way, as a blanket statement  id say No not every shot, not every time, no way.

But should there be a % chance based off the size of the shell,  I would say yes. may be even depending on the number of over pens from the salvo, (say 3 over pens from a salvo cause flooding for example.)

a 16inch shell that is 6 feet long, and weighs 2000 lbs that over pens though the bottom of your Ship is leavening a pretty big hole,

So a CC class firing 8 inch shell should buy no way cause flooding with over pens, but BB firing 15 inch though 18 inch shells should have a chance.

 

 

But how do you reward the BB for hitting a DD at 12k with 4 hits? right now you might be lucky and do 1k damage to him,

Really that's a amazing shot, and your basically laughed at because of over pens.

BB cant reload to HE , they usually cant even get there guns around fast enough to take such a shot, but it dose happen, and I for one usually wonder why I fired, and wasted that hole Salvo

 

 

 

 

 

 

\

 

 

 

 

 

[Xanthro]

 

I completely disagree,

 

There are plenty of Over pens that exist below the water line, especially with ships that have a high ark on there trajectory, that equals plunging fire and most certainly will pass though from top to bottom.

The reason we don't see more citadels, is the simple fact that Citadels mainly are located in the center on CC and Cv classes, leavening the front and the rear open for Over pens.

the second biggest reason is that DD class don't have Citadel, leavening there hole ship open for Over pens.

It's a game, that you want to change the game mechanics doesn't mean your reasoning is sound.

The "ballistics" in the game are seriously flawed, they exist in that flawed state for game play. There is no such thing, in real life, of "plunging fire" where suddenly a shell just drops down at the last second. To have plunging fire, the round would have to be fired up into the air, and that doesn't happen in the game.

 

No, would the fake arc mean an overpen passes through the ship, as the citadel represents the interior of the ship, on an overpen, it's simply bouncing off the interior armor and exiting out the side, as opposed to passing from the top to the bottom of the ship.

WG is very unlikely to adopt your idea, because it would greatly unbalance the game, and all the mechanics are about game play. It's why German Cruiser don't have radar, when they did in real life, because it's a question of balance.

 

[TheRenegrade]

Old post is old!

 

I'd like to point out that 'flooding' in game is probably meant to mean "massive flooding".  The little tiny hole left behind by even a Yamato's main guns (46cm / 18in, probably makes a hole slightly smaller than that) is microscopic compared to the massive hole left behind by a torpedo.  Small holes can be dealt with more easily than a torpedo that blew a 30m hole in the ship.

 

The "ballistics" in the game are seriously flawed, they exist in that flawed state for game play. There is no such thing, in real life, of "plunging fire" where suddenly a shell just drops down at the last second. To have plunging fire, the round would have to be fired up into the air, and that doesn't happen in the game.

 

Seriously?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plunging_fire

 

It really does exist - in the absence of an atmosphere, a shell would follow a parabola, but atmospheric drag ('wind resistance') tends to make it steeper at the end, as it loses horizontal velocity faster than vertical velocity (drag is proportional to velocity squared).   It was a major problem as ranges opened up in the 20th century due to advances in targeting and gun improvements - ships lacked deck armor.

 

At maximum range (which is more like 39km than what, 23km?), an Iowa's shell falls at an angle of 53.25 degrees from level (for AP; HC is 57 degrees).  It's initial launch angle is 45 degrees.    WG has reduced the range of all ships to keep map sizes and engagement ranges down, and I suspect they're a bit faster than their published specs (an Iowa's shells hang in air for a minute and a half at max range!).

[Col_Overkill]

 

It could be limited to non citadel hits that enter/exit underwater.

It could also be a smaller scale flood doing much less damage.

 

​Actually, early in closed beta all penetrating shots that hit under the waterline had a small chance to flood. what ended up happening was you would get say a Fletcher spam into the bow of an Iowa with enough shots and flood her. (just an example, I don't care if this exact scenario happened, the general idea is the same) It was removed because it became frustrating and flooding was happening almost constantly when under sustained fire. light damage could suddenly turn into ship crippling hits. A shell that could citadel for 3k would cause a 40k damage flood. Given this was also when repair party was a limited use consumable, but in general the gameplay is much better without that mechanic.