I don't see why people complain a lot about CVs, take a look at these stats!

[Skeem689]

Things I found interesting:

• CV bombs confirmed useless except to start fires
• Ramming more common cause of damage at Tier IV than CV Bombs
• Sadly ship torp damage to CVs drops dramatically once the CVs can move at 30 knots, removing one of the few counter-CV options (DD flanks)
• Despite taking more damage from various sources relative to other classes, BBs still take most of their damage from other BBs.
• BBs are the only ones complaining about fires, flooding, and CV drops because nobody else lives long enough for those things to have significant impacts compared to the raw damage of AP/HE

Source:

[VTAdmiral]

Saw this chart earlier.

 

Found it interesting that despite all the whining about carriers "Deleting ships at all tiers", the actual damage cased by CV torpedoes and bombs across all tiers is actually quite small.

[J30_Reinhardt]

The problem with CVs isn't overall damage, its that essentially they can one-shot you without being able to dodge...as you can dodge everything else that could possibly do so.

[Skeem689]

The problem with CVs isn't overall damage, its that essentially they can one-shot you without being able to dodge...as you can dodge everything else that could possibly do so.

 

​

not dealt 

[yamatotamura]

I think the problem is the huge spread gap when a cruiser uses super AA. Like IJN manual DB is unhittable when the spread is that big. TB got better but at the rate of how fast planes get shot down I sometimes think why I have a carrier. I wonder how I got to Tier IX somehow..

[Skeem689]

Plus they're buffing AA so more problems for CV

 Q: Kutuzov has crazy good AA. Will the other ships be changed accordingly?

A: Yes. Major AA change coming. Kutuzov was an experiment of sort (so, AA will be buffed? - vakhnenko)

 Source: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/41711-qa-14-january-2016-russian-stream/​

 

[Cruiser_Maya]

Bombers are worthless - they're an annoyance unit, nothing more.

 

Honestly, the more time passes, the more I question why WG attempted to shoehorn carriers into the game. The small size of the maps forces you to tack on all these ridiculous restrictions to carriers that never existed IRL, and also limits both their power, and, correspondingly, drops the strength of AA vessels to counter them. Basically, in making the maps small, WG had to wussify carriers (because you couldn't have carrier planes obliterating people instantly, or taking over games), and in sissifying carriers, you also have to drop the strength of the AA designed to counter them.

 

All of these concessions could have been answered in one of two ways: 1) bigger maps, longer games, with different objectives, that force players to act like fleets, escort their carriers, and behave more like real ships, or 2) remove carriers from the game entirely. Instead, WG tried to get cute and halfway thing, and the result is these flaccid wet blanket boats that appeal to very few players.  

[Yoshiha]

But you must see the other side. CA is very rare to find in games and is one or max 2 a game. They have limited torpedoes and fire power, extreme slow reload (back to ship) and the dmg appears on the graph! Its a lot of dmg for so little appearances....

[yamatotamura]

But you must see the other side. CA is very rare to find in games and is one or max 2 a game. They have limited torpedoes and fire power, extreme slow reload (back to ship) and the dmg appears on the graph! Its a lot of dmg for so little appearances....

 

Rare cause you can't really hit anything. Yeah limited torps but whats the fun when 2 of your 4 planes get shot down now you can only unleash 2 torps and they're low damage and not a guarantee hit at times due to the fact that torps go super slow compared to any other torp in the game 35 kt torps don't help at all, even umikaze goes 49 kts. DB is really RNG based, at times all 4 bombs drop in 1 place when even the whole ship is selected. When cruiser use super AA the DB spread increases to x10 times more area. You can even miss a Yamato size BB with that spread. Barrage fire makes bombing harder. Or even just maintaining your fighters.

[Cruiser_Maya]

 

Rare cause you can't really hit anything. Yeah limited torps but whats the fun when 2 of your 4 planes get shot down now you can only unleash 2 torps and they're low damage and not a guarantee hit at times due to the fact that torps go super slow compared to any other torp in the game 35 kt torps don't help at all, even umikaze goes 49 kts. DB is really RNG based, at times all 4 bombs drop in 1 place when even the whole ship is selected. When cruiser use super AA the DB spread increases to x10 times more area. You can even miss a Yamato size BB with that spread. Barrage fire makes bombing harder. Or even just maintaining your fighters.

 

The problem is that you're attempting to include a paradigm-shifting vessel in a game largely built around an earlier conception of naval combat. THAT'S the beating heart of the carrier issue: that carriers fundamentally altered naval combat, essentially eliminating all the cruisers and battleships present in WoWs within the span of less than a half decade of war experience. So you're attempting to preserve the viability of units while simultaneously including the same unit that played an enormous role (along with the guided missile) and rendering them totally obsolete.

 

And we wonder why neither side can achieve balance? In beta, carriers were nuking everything in sight. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Neither result is satisfactory. 

[yamatotamura]

 

The problem is that you're attempting to include a paradigm-shifting vessel in a game largely built around an earlier conception of naval combat. THAT'S the beating heart of the carrier issue: that carriers fundamentally altered naval combat, essentially eliminating all the cruisers and battleships present in WoWs within the span of less than a half decade of war experience. So you're attempting to preserve the viability of units while simultaneously including the same unit that played an enormous role (along with the guided missile) and rendering them totally obsolete.

 

And we wonder why neither side can achieve balance? In beta, carriers were nuking everything in sight. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Neither result is satisfactory. 

 

idk its currently not that bad just increase torp speed to at least 40~49 kts. Make DB spread smaller when super AA is around. 

[yUPPatriots]

simple reason is b/c it is potato

[clowlock]

What? i thought people complained about CVs going extinct, not being overpowered.

[VTAdmiral]

What? i thought people complained about CVs going extinct, not being overpowered.

 

Sensible people complain about CVs being rare or unreasonably difficult to play, or unsatisfying to play even if you do well.

 

Idiots complain that CVs are OP, still, because they're too stupid to know how to deal with aircraft mechanics that, due to their childish whining, have been nerfed to the point of being nearly unusable.

[yUPPatriots]

 

Sensible people complain about CVs being rare or unreasonably difficult to play, or unsatisfying to play even if you do well.

 

Idiots complain that CVs are OP, still, because they're too stupid to know how to deal with aircraft mechanics that, due to their childish whining, have been nerfed to the point of being nearly unusable.

 

reported for name calling

[TenguBlade]

Bombers are worthless - they're an annoyance unit, nothing more.

Bombers are more useful in tandem with torpedo planes than as a strike unit on their own for the IJN, but on the American side, strike carriers can easy rip off 12k health with 3 bomber squads.  What I tend to do is bait out a repair by setting someone on fire, then move in with my torpedo bombers to finish them with floods.

reported for name calling

And who the hell are you?  Let's see here...highest ship that you've actually played is a Cheatland with a grand total of one battle, hasn't played in at least 2 months, a grand total of 25 battles.  You definitely know everything about this game.

 

 

[Kermut]

I rarely if ever run my CVs anymore. I'm having more fun with DDs in ranked play.

 

I used to run CVs almost exclusively. Within a month or so of release I had a Essex and a Hiryu....since then with the constant nerfs/etc I've only managed to go up to the Shokaku. 

 

At this point I don't even think my opinion on CV balance is valid because I've played them so little. But I think that is a large part of the problem- all of the changes killed my enthusiasm for playing them, both because of how things changed and also because I had no faith that future changes wouldn't make the situation worse. Why invest time and effort into a class that suffered such huge balance swings?

 

Anyway I'm sure there is a new core of people taking up the CV mantlet, but I do think a large part of the current population problems is that so many of the old guard became disenchanted.

[Cruiser_Maya]

Bombers are more useful in tandem with torpedo planes than as a strike unit on their own for the IJN, but on the American side, strike carriers can easy rip off 12k health with 3 bomber squads.  What I tend to do is bait out a repair by setting someone on fire, then move in with my torpedo bombers to finish them with floods.

And who the hell are you?  Let's see here...highest ship that you've actually played is a Cheatland with a grand total of one battle, hasn't played in at least 2 months, a grand total of 25 battles.  You definitely know everything about this game.

 

 

 

But look at that avatar! These are the scawlings of the CRIMINALLY INSANE! Clearly he must be taken seriously, if only because he hunts for human skin on the full moon!

[TenguBlade]

I rarely if ever run my CVs anymore. I'm having more fun with DDs in ranked play.

 

I used to run CVs almost exclusively. Within a month or so of release I had a Essex and a Hiryu....since then with the constant nerfs/etc I've only managed to go up to the Shokaku. 

 

At this point I don't even think my opinion on CV balance is valid because I've played them so little. But I think that is a large part of the problem- all of the changes killed my enthusiasm for playing them, both because of how things changed and also because I had no faith that future changes wouldn't make the situation worse. Why invest time and effort into a class that suffered such huge balance swings?

 

Anyway I'm sure there is a new core of people taking up the CV mantlet, but I do think a large part of the current population problems is that so many of the old guard became disenchanted.

I really got into the thick of carrier play when they were already nerfed, so I never had pre-nerf carrier experience; the same goes for a lot of carrier players I've met.  Then again, I'm only at Hiryu.

 

Personally I like the challenge of having to balance so many tasks at once, and the pressure when you have to defend your own ship from pursuers in particular is a sensation I have oddly come to relish.  Once I got more than one torpedo bomber squad setting up those anvil-and-hammer drops was so satisfying.  I just wish my Hiryu made more money, otherwise I'd take her out more.  I don't think I've ever broken 200k without a premium bonus or flag.

[yUPPatriots]

Let's see here...highest ship that you've actually played is a Cheatland with a grand total of one battle, hasn't played in at least 2 months, a grand total of 25 battles.  You definitely know everything about this game.

 

 

 

 

Angry tomato pls calm yourself

[Cruiser_Maya]

I'll be frank: I think CVs are done totally wrong. EVERYTHING about how they control their planes (lame) to how they are able to organize their squadrons (too restrictive) to how they can launch without moving (impossible until the advent of the catapult) is wrong.

 

WG needs to break down the CV to a fundamental level. I'd suggest the following:

 

1. Eliminate wholesale these pretty, perfect torpedo spreads. Rather, allow CV captains to organize plane-specific attacks, such as the famous hammer and anvil maneuver. 
2. In compensation for this rather large buff, significantly up the AA capability of cruisers and some destroyers. 
3. Additionally, significantly raise the experience that these units achieve for shooting down planes. Make the "pure escort cruiser" a viable gameplay mode.
4. Come up with a more enjoyable way to direct planes. Could the CV captain perhaps act as squadron leader? Could he make torpedo runs himself? Playing a carrier shouldn't involve staring at a map and shifting little icons around. That's dull. There's SO MUCH cool to carriers, and this design robs it of all interest.
5. Force CVs to be moving to launch aircraft. No more sitting in corners or chilling behind islands. 

[Zhoyzu]

I'll be frank: I think CVs are done totally wrong. EVERYTHING about how they control their planes (lame) to how they are able to organize their squadrons (too restrictive) to how they can launch without moving (impossible until the advent of the catapult) is wrong.

 

WG needs to break down the CV to a fundamental level. I'd suggest the following:

 

1. Eliminate wholesale these pretty, perfect torpedo spreads. Rather, allow CV captains to organize plane-specific attacks, such as the famous hammer and anvil maneuver. 
2. In compensation for this rather large buff, significantly up the AA capability of cruisers and some destroyers. 
3. Additionally, significantly raise the experience that these units achieve for shooting down planes. Make the "pure escort cruiser" a viable gameplay mode.
4. Come up with a more enjoyable way to direct planes. Could the CV captain perhaps act as squadron leader? Could he make torpedo runs himself? Playing a carrier shouldn't involve staring at a map and shifting little icons around. That's dull. There's SO MUCH cool to carriers, and this design robs it of all interest.
5. Force CVs to be moving to launch aircraft. No more sitting in corners or chilling behind islands. 

i like how CVs do the plane thing. although i love starcraft so its not foreign  to me

[dseehafer]

I dont know which stat chart to trust anymore. every single day there seems to be someone posting a big ol stat chart showing how their favorite class is underperforming.

 

Destroyer players, Battleship players, Cruiser players and carrier players alike.. they cant all be underperforming!!

 

And if they are all underperforming then guess what... WG has acheived perfect balance!

 

So stop bloody complaining about underperforming classes for the love of pete!! 

[Grizley]

I think it might help if it was limited 1 CV a game, and some of the nerfs to CVs rolled back.  

 

Then at least you have 11 surface ships against the CV.  There isn't as much overloading of AA with 12 squads of attack aircraft, or spotting the entire map.  

 

The trick is having meaningful counter play.  AA makes a difference at T6, but then number of aircraft, health and speed scale far far far faster than AA dps does.  CV counter DDs by spotting them and getting them deleted, they counter BBs because it's not hard for a mid tier CV to delete a BB in one drop.  The only ones who don't get smashed by CV is CA, and CA don't have either the range, stealth, speed or durability to engage a CV.  So the only real counter to a CV is a CV, that's kind of a problem.

 

I think it's pretty tricky to come up with a gameplay reason for CV to have counterplay.  Maybe there can be a wind direction and a CV can only launch aircraft while pointing into the wind and moving half throttle, Then there is less camping behind a tiny island.  The wind direction might affect shells and shift in battle for that matter.  It's not historical but slowing some of the mid tier and up CV would help, even a CA chasing a spotted CV often dies from bombers and torps before they can catch and kill the CV as long as it has room to run. Submarines would obviously be great at hunting CV, but then again CV are also the counter to subs, so it's hard to see how that helps much.

 

I would like it if CVs can have a meaningful impact, without dominating, and for there to be reasonable counter play.  You know, something balanced.

 

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

This is actually pretty useless because there are currently a lot of matches without any carriers so those matches are obviously going to have 0 carrier damage and a lot of matches with two AA bogues or something like that.