DD Spotting Mechanics

[southernavenger]

Let me start by saying this is not a nerf DD time meow thread. Last time I mentioned anything about the way the spotting stuff works at the moment everyone assumed thats what I wanted,and thats not my gripe. So....Played my last game for the night a little while ago and something ridiculous (IMHO) happened. I was playing as an Iowa and was pursuing a Benson stationary in a smoke screen. Now, I know pursuing the DD in an Iowa was asking for trouble but my complaint has nothing to do with Gun Accuracy, Maneuver, etc. My gripe is that with him FIRING HIS GUNS....i did not spot him until 1.6K out while driving straight at him...yes you read that right 1.6 Kilometers.....I literally almost ran him over ( I have video recorded plus screen grabs if anyone thinks this is an exaggeration). When I spotted him finally ,after missing a few shots blind firing at his outgoing rds, my guns couldn't traverse low enough to hit him. Now......I have no issue with DDs being super sneaky one shot kill BB nightmares. Seriously I think they do and should excel in this role. However, a big part of this should be that they are sneaky....This same Benson pursued my Iowa for a large portion of the game just firing away with impunity knowing he would not be spotted, and that led to me deciding screw it ill turn and try and find him. When I finally got fed up and turned to engage him he still was doing between 500 and 1k dmg EVERY volley while occasionally starting fires. Im not sure what the fix is, but no way should a boat of any class firing his guns be invisible that long at those types of ranges. When I asked the CPT how the hell he managed that he simply replied I have tier V skills and you need to learn the spotting mechanic. Anyone can look at my stats and see i'm not new to the game or "spotting mechanics" ( and am a half decent player) but at this point im not sure what WG thinks the answer is. Suggestions???

 

Ed: Seriously, I would like this to be a constructive post not some Nerf DD/Dont nerf DD thread. I just want an honest discussion because this scenario, and several similar ones earlier (with my CAs) are extremely frustrating as they award mechanic exploitation and not player skil; (again IMHO lol)

[Caucasian_Fury]

Suggestion: 

Ask a friendly cruiser or USN/VMF DD for help.

 

Carriers too can provide immense assistance in the form of planes, planes, and more planes. But they're rarely spotted in the wild these days.

[Legendary_Typo]

It can get annoying, but 1k damage per salvo is pretty much an aggressive tickle for most BBs.

 

If you can, get a friendly cruiser/destroyer to help you out, or try and get the carrier on your team to spot him.

[southernavenger]

Agreed fury but...What esp. late game is a ship supposed to do in this situation. There is literally no logical reason that any vessel should EVER have to close within 2k of another vessel (of any class) who is firing his guns. Not firing guns....I have no issue. It just seems crazy that a stationary DD should be able to bait an enemy vessel within that range (which should be a guaranteed torp kill) simply by stopping and spamming fire from a cap point. If I had even seen him at 2.5/3k I would have no complaints. That is easy kill range for his torpedoes but at least my guns are capable of traversing that low to return fire. 

 

Ed: and in regards to 1k dmg being a tickle...that was per volley...DDs of any upper tier can spam those with a pretty solid rate. Throw in the occasional HE volley for good measure and that DD is suddenly pumping out the DMG...while invisible lol

[Caucasian_Fury]

Agreed fury but...What esp. late game is a ship supposed to do in this situation. There is literally no logical reason that any vessel should EVER have to close within 2k of another vessel (of any class) who is firing his guns. Not firing guns....I have no issue. It just seems crazy that a stationary DD should be able to bait an enemy vessel within that range (which should be a guaranteed torp kill) simply by stopping and spamming fire from a cap point. If I had even seen him at 2.5/3k I would have no complaints. That is easy kill range for his torpedoes but at least my guns are capable of traversing that low to return fire lol. 

 

As a primarily DD player, who favours VMF DDs and their shoot-from-smoke tactics, I will tell you that the best counter is to just turn and steam away as quickly as possible.

 

Put your stern to the smoke cloud and go, take pot shots if you like but if there's no other enemy ships around you or within visual range it's actually better to go silent. DD in smoke can't see you unless a teammate's ship is spotting you for them. If you can go quiet on the spotter's radar, DD in smoke won't be able to see you either. Turning you back to it minimizes the target they have to shoot at and expanding the distance reduces damage and fire chances, and makes it easier for you to dodge any torps it may fling at you.

 

If you must sail into a smoke cloud, do it slowly... I'm not sure exactly how long smokes generally last for but it's somewhere between 1 to 2 minutes. Waiting for it to disperse is another tactic.

[LordBenjamin]

extremely frustrating as they award mechanic exploitation and not player skil; (again IMHO lol)

 

It's true for the most part that mechanic exploitation = player skill, as it should be.  Easier to come to grips with it and learn the mechanics than to have them changed.

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Battle_Mechanics_(WoWS)

 

• Smoke screens. Smoke works by blocking LoS. If a ship is inside a smoke screen or have a smoke screen between it and all possible spotters, it can remain undetected even when there are enemy spotters within its detectability range. For air detection, smoke is considered as being at the same height as flying aircraft, therefore a catapult launched aircraft needs to be close to or over the smoke screen in order to detect any ships hiding beyond it. However, an aircraft can not detect a ship that is inside the smoke screen itself even if the aircraft is flying directly over the ship.

 

 

That's the spotting mechanics the player told you to learn, and it was good advice of his.

[LordBenjamin]

 

As a primarily DD player, who favours VMF DDs and their shoot-from-smoke tactics, I will tell you that the best counter is to just turn and steam away as quickly as possible.

 

And if you see smoke on the enemy team and you're playing a cruiser or DD with torps just send them into the smoke if you have the range.   You have a very good chance of clipping a DD off the team.   

[IceSerpen7]

What esp. late game is a ship supposed to do in this situation.

 

 

If I am in a BB, I usually turn towards the guy as soon as I see incoming shells (assuming that tactical situation permits that, i.e. I am not about to expose my broadside, sail into the midst of enemy team, etc.). If he pops smoke, I turn around and move away from him. That way he either has to leave his smoke screen or I'll get out of range / behind some island. The basic idea is to make him burn his smoke CD, then bait him away from that area.

 

[Sir_Godz]

launching a plane is the best way to get a glimpse of him

[Kenjister]

You said you have replays, so I'd like to take a look.

 

The reason being that the guaranteed detection range regardless of islands, smoke or anything is 2km, and 3km with the acquisition module.

Either your remembering it wrong, or have a bona fide bug on your hands.

 

A replay would help lots with clearing it up.

[RockaholicRaven]

you need a ca with hydrostatic or pay for the 2mil module that extends your aoe auto detection to just over 3km

[Caucasian_Fury]

launching a plane is the best way to get a glimpse of him

 

Doesn't work if they turned their AA off. 

 

 

And if you see smoke on the enemy team and you're playing a cruiser or DD with torps just send them into the smoke if you have the range.   You have a very good chance of clipping a DD off the team.   

 

Pretty much, I like to rush smoke shooters in my USN DDs, since they're knife-fighters, usually launch a wall of torps and follow them into the cloud. Even if you don't hit them with torps, generally their first priority after being spotted is to dodge the torps which gives you a couple of free shots to put into them.

[Jakob_Knight]

As othershave said, you have to change what you are going/want to do to match what the enemy does.  If they are sitting in a smoke screen, you have only three options.  First is to turn away and pull them out of the smoke screen or wait them out.  Second is to charge the ship if you think you can do it and survive.  Third is to get another unit into position to spot them for you.

 

All of these options have advantages and disadvantages, and you have to choose which to do based on your understanding of the situation.  If this really bothers you, I recommend getting the Acquisition module/upgrade and/or switch to a German Heavy Cruiser with a Hydroacoustic consumable (German Cruisers apparently get bonus detection ranges).  Just remember Smoke doesn't last forever, and the ship has to be sitting pretty still to perform invisifire with its guns, so you can either close to your Secondary range (Secondaries are unaffected by Smoke, I believe), or have a friendly DD or Bomber attack the ship in the smoke with torpedoes.

 

Many options, but you have to be flexible and be ready to accept the outcome if the other player wins the engagement because they set up conditions in their favor and you went in anyway, knowing the situation.  It's no different than maneuvering your BB to force a Cruiser to either turn (exposing it's broadside to your fire) or continue closing....either way, you have set up a bad situation for the Cruiser to deal with, and that captain has to accept the consequences of getting their ship into that situation.