Ranked Season 3 - World of Bensons, Rank 5+ gameplay thoughts and problems.

[HazardDrake]

Well as I sit here as a DD driver in the Rank 5+ queue; here are my thoughts, having fought my way from Rank 14.

 

The Sims was a viable option in Ranked Season 2, I got to Rank 1 driving mostly that with my, at the time, 16 point Fletcher captian in it with the consealment upgrade, taking the detectability down to a viable 6.6k. I would terrorize teams with those slow 9.2k torpedoes, using their fast reload to keep enemy ships penned in.

 

Ranked Season 3 I got to Rank 5 using the Sims, but in Rank 5+ it just cannot compete. The reason is the MUCH smaller cap circles. The Benson, with the consealment upgrade, has a detection range of 6.3k. That extra .3k of consealment, combined with the smaller caps, is critical. I addition, with the lack of CVs, the Benson B hull is the hull that must be mounted. The 5th gun is life and death. I LOVE my Sims, but I have no choice in rank 5+.

 

In Ranks 6 and lower, bringing a Sims frequently meant you would be pared with a Mahan, and the only reason people bring a Mahan is because they don't have a Benson and if they don't have a Benson they don't have a 15 point captian, meaning you will detect them first every time. In rank 5+, nobody brings a Tier 7 so you are always paired against a Tier 8. The extra gun on the Benson B hull is also a serious edge to the Benson.

 

The Fubuki CAN be viable in Ranked IF you have a 15 point captian in it, which takes the detectability, with camo paint, down to about 5.4k. CAs and BBs will be loading HE and WILL be pre-aiming at the cap circles in Rank 5+. If the Fubuki has halfway competent backup you lose half or more of your health before you even spot them. In rank 5+ play though one needs to be able to push DDs out of a cap and the Fubuki just can't do that reliably.

 

Hatsuharu: You will never make it to Rank 5 in a Hatsuharu except by dumb luck.

 

Blyskawica? In Rank 6 and below it is viable. Rank 5+, don't bother. It's not stealthy enough and it's torpedoes are not good enough to cut it in Rank 5+. A 15 point captain MIGHT change things, but I'm doubtful.

 

Russian DDs: Rank 6 and below: Kiev only, Trashcans need not apply. Rank 5+: LOLF**KNO.

 

CAs? Nope. You try to get close to support your DDs and you get chewed up by the BBs. You can't cap because the cap circles are too small, you'll eat too many torpedoes, and you end up too close to enemy CAs and BBs. Only way to stay alive is to hang back with the BBs.

 

BBs, you're there to kill anyone silly enough to bring a CA and give them something else to shoot at besides your DDs.

 

TL;DR: If you don't have a Benson B hull, don't bother playing Rank 5+ battles in a DD. Games generally contain at least 6 Bensons. If you have a cruiser, expect to hang with the BBs most of the time and not acomplish mutch. BBs, you get to kill the CAs and BBs while the DDs try to cap. The chat has gotten quite hilarious with people mocking the prevalence of Bensons, even Benson drivers; "It's all about the Bensons", "Meet the Bensons",  "6 Bensons walk into a bar...", "The Good, the Bad, and the Bensons", "How I met your Benson", "Benception", among other funny quips.

 

WG screwed up by reducing the cap sizes from Ranked Season 2, turning ranked into World of Bensons with BBs fighting in the background and CAs getting a few shots at the Bensons before trying to kill the CAs and BBs shooting at them while the Bensons shoot at and launch torps at the Bensons in the caps.

 

---

 

Ranked Season 3 seems to be a lot more frustrating and a lot less fun for everyone involved in terms of gameplay. What does everyone else think?

[Marcanbus_NA]

[Zhoyzu]

was in a match earlier with 6 DDs. [edited]annoying

 

[HazardDrake]

was in a match earlier with 6 DDs. [edited]annoying

 

How many Bensons?

[Zampy]

Benny Powah!

[LittleWhiteMouse]

I'm looking forward to trying my CA all of the way up to Rank 1.  Same as last season, I'm making my Atago work for me with a combination of very low surface detection range (9.1km), hydroacoustic search and spotter fighter to flush out DDs.  She's fast -- 37.3knots so unless the DD is already booking it full away from her, they can risk being run down.  And her 203mm absolutely devastate destroyers if they hit.  The challenge is, of course, lighting them up in the first place and then stacking criticals on two separate salvos between their using their Damage Control Party.  This might only give 25 to 30s to finish them before they're able to use their consumable again, effect repairs and book it.  But that's part of the fun, isn't it?

[bad_arcade_kitty]

Russian DDs: Rank 6 and below: Kiev only, Trashcans need not apply.

 

i call bas on it

it was wrong even the previous season... i didn't play it that much but i watched some high ranked streams around ranks 2-5 and they had a plenty of tashkents and somehow less kievs

 

this season kiev is nerfed hard and i see no way how you can even use it so it would do better than tashkent... it always was worse than tashkent for contesting caps (where ru dd are generally bad) since it has pitiful torps comparing to tashkent's spammable 8km ones and worse concealment than tashkent too, now with its post-nerf poor health it's worse than tashkent for shooting while sailing full spead on the edge of the range too

[HW_Plainview]

I just think that people play cruiser very poorly. Not everyone of course. Luckily I own a Benson and use it all the time in Ranked because it's actually the only Tier 8 ship I own. And the only reason I owned it in the first place was to get the Fletcher (sentimental reasons). But my impressions of Cruiser play in ranked goes as follows:

 

Match starts, cruisers rush ahead of BBs full speed ahead. They hover outside the zone or sometimes go into it. The people hovering outside show off their broadside like a peacock in heat. The ones that rush in eventually run into enemy ships and try turn around. At this point they might only be 10km from a BB who isn't going to miss even if the CA is turning full rudder. 

 

I am terrified of cruisers in my Benson. If they stick in a middle ground between DDs spotting for them and BB supporting them with fire, there is very little I can do with my Benson besides try to fire torps from 9 or 10km out.

[Zhoyzu]

How many Bensons?

 

4 2 more were on my team

[HazardDrake]

Russian DDs: Rank 6 and below: Kiev only, Trashcans need not apply.

 

i call bas on it

it was wrong even the previous season... i didn't play it that much but i watched some high ranked streams around ranks 2-5 and they had a plenty of tashkents and somehow less kievs

 

this season kiev is nerfed hard and i see no way how you can even use it so it would do better than tashkent... it always was worse than tashkent for contesting caps (where ru dd are generally bad) since it has pitiful torps comparing to tashkent's spammable 8km ones and worse concealment than tashkent too, now with its post-nerf poor health it's worse than tashkent for shooting while sailing full spead on the edge of the range too

This could be due to extremely small sample size, but with the limited number that I saw they tended to do very poorly. I could get top on my team on a win in my Sims and Benson. Blyskawica was harder to do that in. Kiev and Trash can I think I only ever saw top on the team on losses.

 

Again, the CRITICAL difference between this season and last season are the much smaller cap circles.

[BelgaraththeSorcerer]

Before the cap change, the Kiev/Tashkent worked well, but now that the cap's are tiny, RU DD's can't use the circles as a second layer of detection making it so Benson's can sneak much closer before engaging where their Guns are most effective....

[vasuba]

They need to institute hard caps on how many DD in a game. Having games where half the ships on the map are Destroyers is way too imbalancing. Between torpedo spam and the cloaking systems in game it is just way too crazy.

[BelgaraththeSorcerer]

I have been playing this season in my Amagi, and frankly I have no problem with the team makeup, my main problem is with how stupid some of the DD's act, frankly I wouldn't mind 6 DD's on each team as long as they weren't idiots who thought charging a Amagi from the broadside worked....

[HazardDrake]

They need to institute hard caps on how many DD in a game. Having games where half the ships on the map are Destroyers is way too imbalancing. Between torpedo spam and the cloaking systems in game it is just way too crazy.

 

That's only a bandaid solution. The real problem is the map and cap design this season.

[FratStar4Life]

Had a ranked match tonight with 11 DDs in total (5 my team and 6 on the enemy team)... Remember that DDs are the worst performing class!!!!

/sarcasm off 

[HazardDrake]

Had a ranked match tonight with 11 DDs in total (5 my team and 6 on the enemy team)... Remember that DDs are the worst performing class!!!!

/sarcasm off 

 

Oh geese, Reminds me of one I had on Land of Fire. 8 DDs total. We all went A. First contact was made and EVERYONE launched torpedoes. It was like WW3 had started.

[bad_arcade_kitty]

Had a ranked match tonight with 11 DDs in total (5 my team and 6 on the enemy team)... Remember that DDs are the worst performing class!!!!

/sarcasm off 

 

ranked is different from normals, the abundance of dd there is due to the utmost importance of controlling the caps and dd are the best sheeps for that

 

still even in ranked, bb seem generally to be more reliable, and obviously do way more damage

[J30_Reinhardt]

Someone on one of my ranked teams tonight asked a benson driver 'how is the benson' and I couldn't resist the reply of 'bensony'...

[Batwingsix]

If I could ever make it to rank 5. Just made it back to 12 courtesy of being the only one over 50% WR and 20k average damage on my team. 3 games 3 losses with the armchair admirals out. Even an Atago with 800 battles and 11k average damage. 

 

How does a player have 1400 battles with a Win % of 32???? 

[shootieboats]

I played primarily a Colorado through Season 1, primarily a North Carolina through Season 2, and the Benson through Season 3. Ranked out in all three, so I've been through the Ranked "journey" a few different ways. Here are my thoughts on the gameplay changes.

 

Season 1, classes were pretty balanced. Having Tiers be locked into 6-7 kept a relatively even playing field, as those are the two most closely competitive of the higher tiers. All the ships were more or less viable except the Pensacola, because come on, get real. Your ability to do work in is is vastly outmatched by the ability for an errant turn to delete you into uselessness. Stop bringing it, seriously. Map variety wasn't great, and the grind was long, but it'll probably always be my favorite season, as I am partial to the rose tint on these glasses. I loved my Colorado so much. The 10-1 gameplay was a blast, and relatively balanced. A few BBs, a few CAs, and a few DDs. No one likes you CVs. Abscond!

 

Season 2, they went to Tiers 7-8 (I've never played the 5-6 games, so I can't comment on them). Map variety was better, the irrevocable at 10 was awful, and DDs controlled a very large percentage of the gameplay. Tier 8 DDs get access to concealment, and that has a huge impact on class balance, giving DDs a substantial boost from Tier 7. The Benson was the best DD, the Kiev could do work, and a BB disadvantage was hard to overcome much of the time. I hated having to play an NC, and felt like I generally had minimal impact on the game. Our DDs either won initially or lost initially, and that set the tone of the match in many a game. CAs weren't overly useful on many maps, since DDs could just sit behind islands capping points without being exposed. My least favorite season by far.

 

Season 3, I played one Lex game and the rest Benson. Had a fourteen point captain for most of it, and then got a fifteen point and concealment somewhere around Rank 4. A few changes happened for this season. The Benson got an HP boost on its previously useless B hull, so now Bensons can run B hull and the upgraded torps instead of A and stock torps, like many did in Season 2. So the Benson got a decent relative power spike. And the map cap sizes changed. They were made smaller and they pulled the caps away from island cover, which is a good thing for gameplay. Don't even think about taking those changes back. The old sit stationary behind the islands nonsense was bad gameplay, and we're all better for it being gone. They also added Shatter to the rotation(which I absolutely love, posted a thread about, and would be happy to expound upon for anyone interested in why it's great to have as a map option), which is DD/CA close quarters battle heaven.

 

DDs are still an incredibly important part of the game, and nothing can save your team from very poor DD play, but due to the cap size changes, CAs are stronger now than they were last season, and BBs are still as strong as ever. I'm actually going to come out and say DDs are weaker as a class relative to the other two classes than they were last season. You're going to say that's stupid, but hear me out. DDs are now forced into the open to cap(plus we have Ocean), opening them up to fire from supporting CAs and BBs and the inevitable torp wall coming at them. But they still have to do it, because the fight is going to happen no matter what, so there's little reason to give up the cap and then start the fight. Cap advantage dictates terms. So you fight. But that vulnerability also makes them the most important class, because it means DDs are fighting and taking fire early on, and if your team is on the losing end of those engagements, your big ships are going to be pretty helpless for the rest of the game. Because the CAs and BBs are only stronger than they used to be if they have friendly DDs to spot the enemy DDs. So we're in the weird situation that DDs are relatively weaker than they were last season, but also more important to the overall game flow than they were. You can't lose them. And a mistake in a DD is death. A BB can survive a dumb broadside, a CA, especially the Atago, can sometimes survive a misplay. A DD eats a torp and his day is done. Even if you're not dead, your ability to spot when down 10-11k health to your opponent is heavily reduced, when you're taking at least 3k damage per engagement.

 

CA play seems pretty hard now too, because you have to be there to support the DDs, but play too far in and you die to BBs and that's that. Good CA players are the thing I fear the most in Ranked, but I assume it's such a very fine line they walk. Sometimes you just get unlucky in them, but their ability to help control early DD play and later BB play is invaluable. I'd give up a DD to make sure I had a CA on my team every time, given the choice. 2 CAs is ok, 3 is too many and will leave you too short in other areas to have a good chance of winning, all players being equal.

 

BBs? Well, a BB advantage is the best class in Ranked to have an advantage in. You can bully like crazy with a BB advantage, and if your BBs force their BBs back then their cruisers are either dead or have to run and leave their DDs, and then their DDs are vulnerable to your DDs and CAs, etc etc, and the unstoppable push can continue. But that advantage only materializes if your DD/CAs can at least keep it close to even on the front lines. If they can't, then you're pushing into enemy torps and are dead. BBs are the advantage, but not having bad DDs on your team is what allows that advantage to actually play out.

 

As for the Bensons versus other DDs "debate", it isn't a debate. The Benson is the most useful DD in Ranked. You'regoing tohave to fightover caps, and the Benson has the most HP and best guns to do that. The stronger IJN torps can't make up for it's inability to clear a forward path for the rest of the team. The Fubuki works when you meet the "team minimum number of Bensons" necessary to secure an area, but you can't ever count on that, and so it's just safer to not be in one. A one Benson disadvantage is still manageable, a two Benson disadvantage is going to be tough to stop. It isn't because the Benson is massively OP as a ship versus the Fubuki(compare their overall stats in Random), it's just that it does what Ranked requires from DDs much better than the Fubuki. The other DDs? Hah, no. But that can't be helped either. Tier 8 is top tier for the battles, and DDs also happen to get a power spike at 8. You get the concealment upgrade and you're coming up on your 15 point captain. So they're simply going to outclass the Tier 7s.

 

I don't think WG screwed up by reducing the cap sizes. I think it makes for better, more intense gameplay overall. Yes, it minimizes the usefulness of DDs that aren't Bensons, but the overall gameplay itself is better than it was last season. It forces engagements. Still probably worse overall play than Season 1 though. But that's a tier 6-7 versus 7-8 balance thing. The only way to fix that is revert to 6-7. And then who would buy a Tirpitz or Atago? 

 

That's how I think the Ranked seasons and the classes and DDs stack up so far. Most of the feedback only applies to the top brackets across the seasons. You can get away with more in the lower brackets, and player skill matters more than the ship you're in the lower you are. Still, some ships are simply better. If you want the best chance, you bring the better ship. And that's that I suppose. I'm sure I'll probably just copy/paste this thing is some other Season 3 feedback thread down the line. It took a long time to type, hah. On the off chance someone is going to respond and quote something, pleeeeease don't quote the whole post. Pick a section or just do the .... thing. No one wants to see this loosely connected nonsensical rant cluttering up more of their page than it already is =) Thanks for the seasons.

 

 

[HazardDrake]

A very well written post dngrcnnn. As a mostly DD player I can't comment on much of what you say about CAs and BBs, hopefully we will hear some good points from others who agree or disagree with you on those aspects.

 

That being said, there is one thing you said that I need to comment on.

 

Season 3.... And the map cap sizes changed. They were made smaller and they pulled the caps away from island cover, which is a good thing for gameplay. Don't even think about taking those changes back. The old sit stationary behind the islands nonsense was bad gameplay, and we're all better for it being gone. 

 I have strong feelings, to the point of not disagreeing, but saying that you are objectively wrong on this.

You can say that being able to cap from behind islands was nonsense, fine. However, the changes that were made have been horrific for gameplay. You literally CANNOT run ANYTHING except a Benson B hull without significantly handicapping your team. I LOVE my Sims, I tried desperately to make it work, I tried to make the Blyskawica work. I don't have a Fubuki and would never consider taking my Hatsuharu into ranked. None of those ships can compete in Ranked Season 3 against a Benson B hull. That 87.5% of the destroyers in the game CANNOT be competitive is not just BAD game design, it is BROKEN game design.

 

Season 2 may have had its issues, but you could at least be effective in some way with any of the destroyers and that variety led to interesting gameplay. One team may have a Mahan and the other a Kiev, or a Hatsuharu against a Kiev. Tactics would develop and interesting things would happen. Now it is a total monoculture with Benson B hulls.

EVERY game I play in my Benson there is no option of being sneaky. EVERY game is gonna involve a brutal knife fight that is down to luck as much as skill within 3 minutes of the game starting. It's both stressful and boring. Ranked Season 2 I could play for hours on the weekend just in ranked. Now I need to take a break after a few battles at most and go do something else.

 

An alternative would have been to give each team a cap as if it was a non-domination domination game. (You know what I mean, the way they changed standard battle to eliminate draws.) Capturing the other teams cap would not be an auto loss, it would just let the one team gather points twice as fast as the other team, same as now when one team has both caps, leaving the chance of a comeback.

 

BAM!!! With the above you get rid of the "hiding behind island to cap" bullpoo AND you make DDs, CAs, and BBs of all nations viable because gameplay is more sophisticated than "Everyone go to point A in stealth to beat up on person B until one of us falls over."

[J30_Reinhardt]

If I could ever make it to rank 5. Just made it back to 12 courtesy of being the only one over 50% WR and 20k average damage on my team. 3 games 3 losses with the armchair admirals out. Even an Atago with 800 battles and 11k average damage.

 

How does a player have 1400 battles with a Win % of 32????

 

I was 5/5 wins tonight

[HazardDrake]

On another note, in two separate games we had a Kitakami in Rank 5+ battles. Same person driving it each time.

 

The verdict? It's fairly worthless, going from the results of those two games.

 

The one game it was on our team and I had other problems than looking at what it was doing, but it finished at the bottom of our team list.

 

The second game where it was on the opposite team it did better, scoring in the middle of their team listing, but getting no kills despite surviving until near the end of the game. (We won.) Our DD screen was effective at spotting Kitty torp walls and the BBs and CAs behind us were then able to easily thread between them.

[bad_arcade_kitty]

On another note, in two separate games we had a Kitakami in Rank 5+ battles. Same person driving it each time.

 

The verdict? It's fairly worthless, going from the results of those two games.

 

guess you need to observe more than 2 games by the same person to make a reliable estimation

[godzilla5549]

 

You can say that being able to cap from behind islands was nonsense, fine. However, the changes that were made have been horrific for gameplay. You literally CANNOT run ANYTHING except a Benson B hull without significantly handicapping your team. I LOVE my Sims, I tried desperately to make it work, I tried to make the Blyskawica work. I don't have a Fubuki and would never consider taking my Hatsuharu into ranked. None of those ships can compete in Ranked Season 3 against a Benson B hull. That 87.5% of the destroyers in the game CANNOT be competitive is not just BAD game design, it is BROKEN game design.

 

This is a fundamental flaw of Season 3. I got to Rank 1 last season in my Fubuki. It was a challenge, but I enjoyed it and it was fun to fight the other DDs and contest caps. They were large enough to have 2 DDs in the cap unspotted, which made for some interesting gameplay when we charged each other to get the spot and then rush to escape. But now, there is no reason to play anything BUT a Benson. I played a few games in my Fubuki this season, but a Fubuki is near worthless. It can't knife-fight a USN DD (nothing can). The Benson can get a very similar detection radius to the Fubuki, which makes the Fubuki obsolete. The Benson does everything the Fubuki does, but better.

 

I have resigned to playing my Atago this season. There are far too many unskilled CA captains, and I am trying to rectify that problem.