Russian Destroyer's Strengths

[The_Moe]

I am by no means a "destroyer expert", but I am finding I like playing them under the current game version. As I understand things:

 

IJN have slow turning guns, but longer range torps and are pretty good at stealth torping

US DDs are gun boats with short range torps

 

How about Russian DDs? I haven't tried them yet, but I'm wondering about their strengths. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on them, because it seems the torp range is quite short, though they are fast, and the guns are slightly larger than IJN, but they turn slowly.

 

How are you using your Russian DDs and what do you think are their strengths? Thanks.

[chriztahfah]

They're basically light cruisers without citadels. Stats say that the high tier ones have some of the best win rates of any ship so they're definitely good.

[Downpour_]

They're basically light cruisers without citadels. Stats say that the high tier ones have some of the best win rates of any ship so they're definitely good.

 

Winrate is slightly misleading for the high tier VMF DDs because right now high tier cruisers are pretty bad at the anti DD role but the Kiev, Udaloi and Khab are amazing at it (which is really their niche). So when you can more consistently eliminate the other teams DDs of course your team will stand a better chance at winning. So in short its not really that they are any more powerful or capable than the other high tier DDs its that they are ,in the limited amount of ships released so far, the only ships that really fill the a certain niche and that makes them win more in the present meta. 

[alexf24]

Small cruisers, no citadels, almost cruiser-level concealment (i.e. bad for a DD), fast top speed, short-ranged torps.

 

Derzki: fun little YOLO boat. Guns are the worst in the game (a You Tuber said they are only good for hanging laundry, and he is right). Torpedoes only have 3kmn range but it has a lot of them with insanely fast reload. So much so, than if you ripple the launchers a few seconds apart, by the time the last set was shot out, the first one is coming back online. Insane. Suicidal boat but fun to play when you can get close enough to torp (if you survive that long that is).

 

Storo: Meh. I skipped it entirely. Let somebody else comment on it.

 

Izyaslav: Guns are not bad, speed is good, torpedoes are marginally better. Fun little boat for low tiers. I prefer Clemson at T4 though. Note I do not compare any of these to IJN DDs as they are ninjas, and RU DDs are gunboats. Totally different beasts.

 

Gnevni: A good boat, with powerful guns, flat arc, but slow rotating turrets. Best used as a DD hunter from a distance, where USN DDs have trouble due to their high shooting arc. In a knife fight, Nicholas should be better due to Gnevni's slow turrets.

 

Ognevoi: Better boat that Gnevni but suffers from bad design. Instead of singles, it has 2x2 turrets. You lose one (it happens more often than you'd think), you lose 50% of your shooting power. Torpedoes are short-ranged and just a secondary weapon.

 

Kiev: excellent boat, even after the nerf. Way fast top speed, very good guns, bad concealment and short torpedoes (seldom, if ever, used them). The definition of a small cruiser.

 

Can't comment further as I am at Kiev currently, but note that at the same tier, (my opinion), I like Mahan and Blyskawica better (after Kiev's nerf).

 

All of this is of course my own opinion only. Some people may differ.

[The_Moe]

Small cruisers, no citadels, almost cruiser-level concealment (i.e. bad for a DD), fast top speed, short-ranged torps.

 

Derzki: fun little YOLO boat. Guns are the worst in the game (a You Tuber said they are only good for hanging laundry, and he is right). Torpedoes only have 3kmn range but it has a lot of them with insanely fast reload. So much so, than if you ripple the launchers a few seconds apart, by the time the last set was shot out, the first one is coming back online. Insane. Suicidal boat but fun to play when you can get close enough to torp (if you survive that long that is).

 

Storo: Meh. I skipped it entirely. Let somebody else comment on it.

 

Izyaslav: Guns are not bad, speed is good, torpedoes are marginally better. Fun little boat for low tiers. I prefer Clemson at T4 though. Note I do not compare any of these to IJN DDs as they are ninjas, and RU DDs are gunboats. Totally different beasts.

 

Gnevni: A good boat, with powerful guns, flat arc, but slow rotating turrets. Best used as a DD hunter from a distance, where USN DDs have trouble due to their high shooting arc. In a knife fight, Nicholas should be better due to Gnevni's slow turrets.

 

Ognevoi: Better boat that Gnevni but suffers from bad design. Instead of singles, it has 2x2 turrets. You lose one (it happens more often than you'd think), you lose 50% of your shooting power. Torpedoes are short-ranged and just a secondary weapon.

 

Kiev: excellent boat, even after the nerf. Way fast top speed, very good guns, bad concealment and short torpedoes (seldom, if ever, used them). The definition of a small cruiser.

 

Can't comment further as I am at Kiev currently, but note that at the same tier, (my opinion), I like Mahan and Blyskawica better (after Kiev's nerf).

 

All of this is of course my own opinion only. Some people may differ.

 

Fascinating. Seems a very complex nation (Russia) with broad changes to tactics, tier by tier. Not sure quite what to make of them, yet. Thanks.

[The_Moe]

Are many people playing Russian DDs, or do you think the majority are waiting for a balancing pass? I don't see them very often when I play, but I don't have much time these days either. Could be just me.

[IronWolfV]

I am by no means a "destroyer expert", but I am finding I like playing them under the current game version. As I understand things:

 

IJN have slow turning guns, but longer range torps and are pretty good at stealth torping

US DDs are gun boats with short range torps

 

How about Russian DDs? I haven't tried them yet, but I'm wondering about their strengths. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on them, because it seems the torp range is quite short, though they are fast, and the guns are slightly larger than IJN, but they turn slowly.

 

How are you using your Russian DDs and what do you think are their strengths? Thanks.

 

Basically anything a USN DD can do as far as guns, a Russian DD can do better. They are faster, guns are more accurate with a flatter gun arc and they hit harder.

 

RU DDs laugh at the idea that USN DDs think they are gunboats.

[PelicanHazard]

I am by no means a "destroyer expert", but I am finding I like playing them under the current game version. As I understand things:

 

IJN have slow turning guns, but longer range torps and are pretty good at stealth torping

US DDs are gun boats with short range torps

 

How about Russian DDs? I haven't tried them yet, but I'm wondering about their strengths. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on them, because it seems the torp range is quite short, though they are fast, and the guns are slightly larger than IJN, but they turn slowly.

 

How are you using your Russian DDs and what do you think are their strengths? Thanks.

 

IJN are stealthy torp boats. Guns are to be used sparingly, mainly to deliver a killing blow or harass a distracted target.

USN are jack-of-all-trades. They can gun, they can torp (stealthily once you get Mahan's upgraded torps), but their distinguishing mark is agility.

VMF are your gunboats. Not stealthy (for a destroyer), torps so short-ranged your crew can punch the target, and turn like pigs. The advantages are lasers for cannons and ludicrous speed.

 

In a rock, paper, scissors contest between the three: the US holds an edge in close range, where other destroyers can't turn turrets fast enough to hit them while the USN doesn't have a problem pirouetting around, the VMF hold the mid range where everyone's spotted but the USN shells start applying for jobs at SpaceX, and the IJN hold the long range where they can spot others and remain concealed. It's a very tenuous balance, though, as the VMF can easily speed away to their ideal engagement range, the IJN can easily lose concealment from a stray plane or other ship, and the USN can pirouette into a torpedo.

 

All things considered, I think the VMF are the strongest, as they have the speed to force the engagement onto their terms (either by opening up distance from a USN DD or closing into an IJN DD) and the guns to hit hard once they're there. The IJN gets into a tough spot if they lose concealment and the USN becomes toothless the farther downrange you are.

 

 

[iEaTDaGrudge]

Are many people playing Russian DDs, or do you think the majority are waiting for a balancing pass? I don't see them very often when I play, but I don't have much time these days either. Could be just me.

 

I stop playing my kiev after the nerf i sold it...instead just bought myself a tier 7 poland DD and its a greatship..love it..

[centarina]

at tier 7,   Kiev is  easiest to play well. it doesn't do DD stuff that well though, which is capping, scouting, etc but it really does CL stuff well.      I have very high survival rate with it and decent average.  it is pure run and gun.

                Hatsuharu is probably least fun to play .  its a ok ship, but very forgettable.       I sold it after I got to fubuki.       pretty much pure torpedo boat but not a great torpedos.   Upgraded torps are ok

                Mahan is probably the best pure destroyer at tier 7.      decent gun and torps makes it very flexible and versatile.   large concealment range is tough, but definitely does well enough.    because of all the closer fight, I do have lower survivability with it. it is a fun ship to play though.

            

[HazardDrake]

All things considered, I think the VMF are the strongest, as they have the speed to force the engagement onto their terms (either by opening up distance from a USN DD or closing into an IJN DD) and the guns to hit hard once they're there. The IJN gets into a tough spot if they lose concealment and the USN becomes toothless the farther downrange you are.

A valid opinion, but I disagree.

 

The VMF ships biggest weakness, as you mentioned, is their poor consealment ratings and a compitent DD driver will mercilessly exploit that by maintaining stealth and letting the cruisers and BBs take large chunks of their health away from them.

 

They are indeed fast, but have to be moving in a straight line to exploit that speed. Manuvering, they lose a significant portion of that. Their engines/steering are also easily shot out. US and IJN DD drivers almost always run "Last Stand" skill so they retain steering and propulsion. On VMF ships, "Advanced Fire Training" for an extra 20% gun range is more valuable. That means that, once you've used your damage control to get your engines back, the enemy has an incentive to try to knock your engines/steering out again or set you on fire, often saving their torps for when you are immobile. I have done this to plenty of VMF ships and had it done to me as well.

 

They don't really get to dictate the engagement because of those weaknesses, the speed merely helps offset the ships other weaknesses.

[PelicanHazard]

Fair points all, I was focusing mostly on DD v DD engagements, but since there's other ship classes in the game, the VMF are pretty big targets.

[Cruiser_Sendai]

 

IJN are stealthy torp boats. Guns are to be used sparingly, mainly to deliver a killing blow or harass a distracted target.

USN are jack-of-all-trades. They can gun, they can torp (stealthily once you get Mahan's upgraded torps), but their distinguishing mark is agility.

VMF are your gunboats. Not stealthy (for a destroyer), torps so short-ranged your crew can punch the target, and turn like pigs. The advantages are lasers for cannons and ludicrous speed.

 

In a rock, paper, scissors contest between the three: the US holds an edge in close range, where other destroyers can't turn turrets fast enough to hit them while the USN doesn't have a problem pirouetting around, the VMF hold the mid range where everyone's spotted but the USN shells start applying for jobs at SpaceX, and the IJN hold the long range where they can spot others and remain concealed. It's a very tenuous balance, though, as the VMF can easily speed away to their ideal engagement range, the IJN can easily lose concealment from a stray plane or other ship, and the USN can pirouette into a torpedo.

 

All things considered, I think the VMF are the strongest, as they have the speed to force the engagement onto their terms (either by opening up distance from a USN DD or closing into an IJN DD) and the guns to hit hard once they're there. The IJN gets into a tough spot if they lose concealment and the USN becomes toothless the farther downrange you are.

 

 

 

Pretty much spot on. Though I will say that at the higher tiers, the USN DDs become just as stealthy as the IJN ones.

[The_Moe]

Very interesting points. Thank you all.  +1 for the assistance

[HazardDrake]

Fair points all, I was focusing mostly on DD v DD engagements, but since there's other ship classes in the game, the VMF are pretty big targets.

Of course, which is why I made sure to say that your opinion was not wrong. It was a good read that made me think about the merits of each class and why I disagreed with you. You limited your scope just as I limited mine in order to keep things to a reasonable length.

 

So thank you much for your well reasoned arguments for your point of view. Always good when we can have nice discussions on subjects like this.

[HyperFish]

I forget the name, but I have more fun in my Tier III Ruskie dd than I had in any of my Japanese destroyers. For me, and pun is intended, long rang torp sniping was hit and miss. Rarely hit, usually miss. I've had better luck in my Minikaze running, gunning and torping from 3-5km, then retreating under smoke. .

 

I never really got into the USN dds, and now that the Russians are here I probably don't think I will. 

 

I love my Yoloboat!