IJN vs USN Air Superiority - What are you suppose to do?

[Conduitx]

One tactic I keep seeing when it comes to USN vs IJN CV's, is that USN tends to send their fighter squadrons directly after IJN fighter squadrons, wipe them out with barely a scratch, then proceed to chew up the strike squadrons and camp the IJN CV.

 

How are you suppose to combat USN fighter loadouts as IJN?

[1Sherman]

Funny, I've had the exact opposite happen to me before. I've seen Hiryus and Ryujos with their air superiority loadouts wipe out all my planes and puppy guard my Independence and my Ranger.

[darien22]

Use the Alt attack which can wipe them all out if done properly .

[Conduitx]

Hiryu and Ryujo seems to be the only IJN CV tiers people want to talk about. What about the rest?

[darien22]

Hiryu and Ryujo seems to be the only IJN CV tiers people want to talk about. What about the rest?

 

Most popuar . The others are good but require a good but of skill to use properly .

[1Sherman]

 

Most popuar . The others are good but require a good but of skill to use properly .

 

Shokaku and Hakuryu also have fighter loadouts that can obliterate American aircraft and puppy guard the CVs.

[darien22]

 

Shokaku and Hakuryu also have fighter loadouts that can obliterate American aircraft and puppy guard the CVs.

 

They can win with stike loadout also .

[TenguBlade]

Hiryu and Ryujo seems to be the only IJN CV tiers people want to talk about. What about the rest?

Because at Tier 8, AA carrier doesn't pay the repair bill on your Lexington, and Bogue is so bad in every regard of self-defense that you need the strike loadout to defend yourself.  Ryujo arguably has it the worst because if she's strike she has 1 fighter squad of statistically inferior fighters to Independence.  Hiryu mostly is mentioned because people come out of Ryujo with PTSD as a result.

[darien22]

Because at Tier 8, AA carrier doesn't pay the repair bill on your Lexington, and Bogue is so bad in every regard of self-defense that you need the strike loadout to defend yourself.  Ryujo arguably has it the worst because if she's strike she has 1 fighter squad of statistically inferior fighters to Independence.  Hiryu mostly is mentioned because people come out of Ryujo with PTSD as a result.

 

Ryujo was really good though  .

[TenguBlade]

Ryujo was really good though  .

Was, then they buffed Indy's fighters.

[1Sherman]

Was, then they buffed Indy's fighters.

 

3/1/1 loadout on Ryujo beats 1/1/1 loadout on Indy every time and beats 2/0/1 loadout on Indy 7 times out of 10 solely because of sheer numbers.

[TenguBlade]

3/1/1 loadout on Ryujo beats 1/1/1 loadout on Indy every time and beats 2/0/1 loadout on Indy 7 times out of 10 solely because of sheer numbers.

Wake up call: nobody plays AA Ryujo.  You don't have enough capability to defend yourself or even mount attacks because enemy ships can swat the one squad of bombers you have out of the sky.  Don't forget Tier 6 is where Cheatland resides.

[darien22]

Was, then they buffed Indy's fighters.

 

Outplay Inde fighters . Barrage is really strong .

[1Sherman]

Wake up call: nobody plays AA Ryujo.  You don't have enough capability to defend yourself or even mount attacks because enemy ships can swat the one squad of bombers you have out of the sky.  Don't forget Tier 6 is where Cheatland resides.

 

Which is precisely why I think Japanese air superiority loadouts need to be nerfed. My arguments for why can be seen here ->http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/56259-why-american-cvs-are-underpowered-japanese-cvs-are-op-and-how-to-fix-both-problems/page__fromsearch__1

[CriticalHit]

So your solution to mid tier IJN CVs getting stomped in aerial combat is to make them even more stomp-able?

 

 

[tremor3258]

Well, when everyone's stomp-able it's at least even, I guess?  (Actually, better barrage has been useful since I've been playing my Ryujo some with ranked restarting)

[CNitram]

Now that fighter strafe is actually functional, a 3-1-1 Ryujo can really get tossed around by a competent Independence player. A lot of people make the mistake of bunching those 3 groups together. A successful strafe can result in all 3 being 50% or less, giving the US fighter the ability to engage and win.

 

Personally, I run my Indy with 1-1-1 and my Ryujo with 1-2-2, almost exclusively.

[1Sherman]

So your solution to mid tier IJN CVs getting stomped in aerial combat is to make them even more stomp-able?

 

 

 

No, my solution to American CVs getting murdered in aerial combat by air superiority IJN CVs is to make USN CVs less murder-able.

[1Sherman]

Wake up call: nobody plays AA Ryujo.  You don't have enough capability to defend yourself or even mount attacks because enemy ships can swat the one squad of bombers you have out of the sky.  Don't forget Tier 6 is where Cheatland resides.

 

Every other time I encountered a Ryujo on the enemy team while in my Independence, that Ryujo would be using the 3/1/1 loadout and my 1/1/1 loadout would get swatted out of the sky. If I wanted even the slightest chance of fighting them, I'd have to use the 2/0/1 loadout and sacrifice my only TB squadron, something that the Ryujo does not have to do when it uses the 3/1/1 loadout.

[CriticalHit]

 

No, my solution to American CVs getting murdered in aerial combat by air superiority IJN CVs is to make USN CVs less murder-able.

 

It just seems like you are complaining that the IJN has a superior Air Superiority loadout in Tier VI and VII. The US has the edge in Tier IV, V, VIII, IX, and X. Is the crux of your argument that ohmygod the IJN turns the tables for two tiers FIX THIS NOW

[TenguBlade]

Every other time I encountered a Ryujo on the enemy team while in my Independence, that Ryujo would be using the 3/1/1 loadout and my 1/1/1 loadout would get swatted out of the sky. If I wanted even the slightest chance of fighting them, I'd have to use the 2/0/1 loadout and sacrifice my only TB squadron, something that the Ryujo does not have to do when it uses the 3/1/1 loadout.

Helloooo?  You have 4 torpedo bombers in your squad, and at Tier 6 you will routinely lose 2-3 of them in attacks against anything save a DD.  Not to mention that your reserve has TBs for about one more full squad and that's it.  Same with Ryujo's DBs.  Play the damn ship before you say anything about it; for all anyone knows here it could just be that you suck at dealing with AA carriers.  Come to think of it, you might have been one of the 3 Ranger players (and counting) who reported me for repeatedly murdering your planes while you send them in straight lines.  Wouldn't surprise me.

[Halus]

The mismatch is mainly due to using historical ships, but unhistorical timeline in order to make balance 'seem' equal?  Not sure how this can be fixed, but as it stands now, it's seems more often it is about playing the right ship with tactics/strategy being secondary.

 

So when MM pits one side with two Hosho carriers against a Bogue and Langley, the IJN player has to make the best of one or two early strike attempts, after which most if not all his planes are gone.

 

 

 

 

[Gavroche_]

Generally a basic strategy is to keep your planes over a U.S CA until you see something you see something you want dead. If the opposing CV has his fighters in position to intercept your strike well ahead of the target, don't go for it or turn back. Wait, and pick another target. If his planes can't get there in time or can get there barely ahead of time, then you can go for the strike and try to use your fighter and Dive bombers as bait/distractions/hinderances. You generally won't get more than a couple torp planes shirt down and maybe one squad still being panicked by his fighters, which still allows for 3-5 Torps on an average strike.

that being said, a good US CV won't allow himself to be distracted, and will position his planes well enough to make this between hard and impossible. Such is life.

[Palladia]

The mismatch is mainly due to using historical ships, but unhistorical timeline in order to make balance 'seem' equal?  Not sure how this can be fixed, but as it stands now, it's seems more often it is about playing the right ship with tactics/strategy being secondary.

 

So when MM pits one side with two Hosho carriers against a Bogue and Langley, the IJN player has to make the best of one or two early strike attempts, after which most if not all his planes are gone.

 

 

 

 

That literally can't happen.  Two Hosho's against two Langleys yes,  but MM makes sure to match tier for tier on CV's.

 

That being said,  low level IJN is a trade off.  You're at the mercy of USN CV's,  but everything else is at YOUR mercy.  With the buff to plane speed and optional torpedo spread USN CV's have gotten better at dealing damage to ship-bound targets,  but they are still nothing compared to what the IJN can put out.

[Halus]

Actually the combo of a Langley and Bogue against two Hosho did happen to me, main reason I responded to this particular thread.  It was terrible, three squads of US fighters (18 total) against our two, a measly 8 fighters.  It is the worse case scenario at tier IV, but  it did occur before the latest patch, so hopefully never again.

 

Definitely agree, the first few minutes the enemy is at the mercy of IJN torp planes, but once their fighters know where they are, the show is over.  The amount of damage torps can do is relevant to how the enemy ship reacts.  Some will keep steaming ahead in  a straight line, but no where near the success against a BB that does pirouettes to shake off a torp run.