Probable USN light cruiser line, with pictures!

[Sirus_Patton]

Seen some people talking and asking about it, so I figured I'd throw something together based on probability.  Now, conveniently this does follow the development of USN light cruisers from the Omaha to the last light cruiser class.

 

Tier 6:  Brooklyn-class (Cleveland replacement) 
While it does carry 15 6"/48 caliber guns, they only fired 6rpm in reality (stand corrected, 8rpm in reality though 6rpm is likely in-game) and as the shell does less damage than the Mogami in-game her DPS will be less.  Armor wise it's very similar to the Cleveland, but it's also the first US light cruiser to be built after the Omaha series.

 

Tier 7:  St. Louis-class (1938)

Basically a heavily-modified version of the Brooklyn, the St. Louis saw an increase in rate of fire from 6rpm to 7.5rpm, improved anti-air capabilities, and a move from exposed secondaries to twin 3"/38 caliber batteries that you see on most USN WWII warships.

 

Tier 8:  Cleveland-class

Here, we will likely see the Cleveland finally get her proper WWII AAA, as well as an un-nerfed rate of fire at around 10rpm (roughly on-par DPM wise with the Mogami).

 

Tier 9: Fargo-class

Basically taking everything good about the Cleveland and making it better, the Fargo has improved anti-air and an improved rate of fire.

 

Tier 10: Worcester-class

Here we reach the pennicle of USN light cruiser design.  Her main armament might be the same gun barrels as the Brooklyn and up, however they're mounted in high-rotation/high-elevation dual-purpose turrets, meaning that they function effectively in an AAA role.  Other than that, her AAA is basically identical to the Des Moines-class heavy cruisers.  She boasted an impressive 18rpm rate of fire (likely dropped to 14 in-game) and solid agility.

 

All in all, it's going to be a rather interesting if not controversial line.  It's a whole branch dedicated to eradicating destroyers, harassing carriers, and burning BBs to the waterline.

 

Edit:  Derped and put the wrong picture for Fargo-class.

[The_GoDDfather]

Ohhh, I like the sound of 18rpm. Sounds like a big DD

 

[Argh_My_Liver]

Not to familiar with any of those ships, do they all have a similar citadel layout to the Cleveland?

 

Looks like a pretty reasonable guess to me, probably won't go down this particular line but good write up all the same 

[Sirus_Patton]

Not to familiar with any of those ships, do they all have a similar citadel layout to the Cleveland?

 

Looks like a pretty reasonable guess to me, probably won't go down this particular line but good write up all the same 

 

Pretty much the same for the citadels IIRC.  Brooklyn might have a slightly larger citadel, but most are divided like the Cleveland.

[crzyhawk]

I'm not sure where you got your info on Brooklyn's firing rate, but it's SADLY mistaken.  Savannah on her firing trials averaged 9.2 RPM.  The guns were identical to those in the Clevelands, with slightly different ammunition hoist motors.  The lowest claimed rate of fire for the Brooklyns/St Louises is 8.0 RPM effective.

[Argh_My_Liver]

 

Pretty much the same for the citadels IIRC.  Brooklyn might have a slightly larger citadel, but most are divided like the Cleveland.

 

I figured that was the case. BB players who can't aim are going to hate this this line 

[ConquerorSEA_2014]

I have 1 very very very  important question to ask ,whats their RL shell velocity??

[crzyhawk]

Not to familiar with any of those ships, do they all have a similar citadel layout to the Cleveland?

 

Looks like a pretty reasonable guess to me, probably won't go down this particular line but good write up all the same 

 

The St Louis did, Brooklyn did not.  Brooklyn's machinery was a more typical installation.  Improvements in the machinery allowed them to be arranged on the unit principle for the St Louis class, which served as something of a proto-type Cleveland.

[Sirus_Patton]

I'm not sure where you got your info on Brooklyn's firing rate, but it's SADLY mistaken.  Savannah on her firing trials averaged 9.2 RPM.  The guns were identical to those in the Clevelands, with slightly different ammunition hoist motors.  The lowest claimed rate of fire for the Brooklyns/St Louises is 8.0 RPM effective.

 

Huh, must have confused sources on my end.  Still, I'd expect her to be somewhere around the 6rpm mark in-game.

[crzyhawk]

I have 1 very very very  important question to ask ,whats their RL shell velocity??

 

Same guns as cleveland, same shell velocity.

[Sirus_Patton]

I have 1 very very very  important question to ask ,whats their RL shell velocity??

 

Look at the Cleveland in-game and you've got your answer to how they're going to be.  The 6"/48 caliber is the same gun used across all platforms, with the engineers gradually pulling a higher rate of fire out of them.

[ConquerorSEA_2014]

 

Same guns as cleveland, same shell velocity.

 

 

Look at the Cleveland in-game and you've got your answer to how they're going to be.  The 6"/48 caliber is the same gun used across all platforms, with the engineers gradually pulling a higher rate of fire out of them.

 

So,they will basically have the same terrible shell velocity as the Cleveland.

[Sirus_Patton]

 

 

So,they will basically have the same terrible shell velocity as the Cleveland.

 

Except it reaches a point where you're making the enemy team fight in the shade of your shells.  If you put in Worcester with 14rpm, between skills and modules you can bring that up to 17.2rpm.  That's 12 6" shells headed for your target every 3.5 seconds (206 per minute), a point at which dodging only mitigates the damage you're taking.

[crzyhawk]

 

Huh, must have confused sources on my end.  Still, I'd expect her to be somewhere around the 6rpm mark in-game.

 

In the USN cruiser discussion area, we've gone over these designs ad nauseum.  The general consensus is that Brooklyn will end up as the T7 CL with a reduced ROF, with a proto-brooklyn design with 8-12 guns with a severely restricted ROF (or perhaps one of the proto Atlanta designs, when we tried to develop them as 6-inch cruisers).

 

Fargo's not really enough of an upgrade on Cleveland to warrant being t9...She's got no ROF advantage, only better sky arcs for the AA guns which do not even matter with the current AA model.

 

Worcester is also weak for t10, given the British Minotaur designs wish auto-loading 6-inch guns @ 20 RPM.  it will be interesting to see what they do.  Worcester only has a 2 RPM advantage over Cleveland, which I am not sure is enough for a jump from 8 to 10.

 

Here is the data on the Brooklyn/Cleveland guns:

 

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_6-47_mk16.htm

 

I've seen a lot of folks claim that the lower powered motors on the ammunition hoists for the Brooklyns restricted their ROF to 8.0 RPM, but I've never actually seen that documented anywhere.  It's probably in Friedman's cruiser book which I do not own.  Regardless, as a 15 gun ship, whatever tier it gets put in, it won't see 8.0 RPM it WILL be nerfed somewhat,  6.0 and t6, I just don't see.  I think they'll go with paper instead as over nerfing ships to shove in too low of tier is proven to fail with Cleveland.  They're going to need a ship with less armor too.

[IKU19]

It must be noted, the caliber isn't great and HE now does less damage depending on the armor thickness of the target as shown with 155-Mogami having an average of 120 damage per shell when firing at battleships.

 

Light Cruisers typically don't have that thick armor either, I haven't looked up these ships specifically but I'm assuming it'll be similar to Kutuzov who gets easily citadelled.

 

I'm hoping they buff the shell velocity of Cleveland once the light cruiser releases in a few months.

[Sirus_Patton]

 

In the USN cruiser discussion area, we've gone over these designs ad nauseum.  The general consensus is that Brooklyn will end up as the T7 CL with a reduced ROF, with a proto-brooklyn design with 8-12 guns with a severely restricted ROF (or perhaps one of the proto Atlanta designs, when we tried to develop them as 6-inch cruisers).

 

Fargo's not really enough of an upgrade on Cleveland to warrant being t9...She's got no ROF advantage, only better sky arcs for the AA guns which do not even matter with the current AA model.

 

Worcester is also weak for t10, given the British Minotaur designs wish auto-loading 6-inch guns @ 20 RPM.  it will be interesting to see what they do.  Worcester only has a 2 RPM advantage over Cleveland, which I am not sure is enough for a jump from 8 to 10.

 

Here is the data on the Brooklyn/Cleveland guns:

 

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_6-47_mk16.htm

 

I've seen a lot of folks claim that the lower powered motors on the ammunition hoists for the Brooklyns restricted their ROF to 8.0 RPM, but I've never actually seen that documented anywhere.  It's probably in Friedman's cruiser book which I do not own.  Regardless, as a 15 gun ship, whatever tier it gets put in, it won't see 8.0 RPM it WILL be nerfed somewhat,  6.0 and t6, I just don't see.  I think they'll go with paper instead as over nerfing ships to shove in too low of tier is proven to fail with Cleveland.  They're going to need a ship with less armor too.

 

Problem you run into with the Worcester is that they have to neuter "adjust" her AAA battery to something non-existent to put her as a tier 9.  It's very similar to trying to shoe-horn the Alaska-class as a tier 5-6 BB (which her stats would work with if you crippled the rate of fire) but it would require a fictional AAA build as she was identical to the North Carolina (who's AAA was too strong for tier 8).

[crzyhawk]

It must be noted, the caliber isn't great and HE now does less damage depending on the armor thickness of the target as shown with 155-Mogami having an average of 120 damage per shell when firing at battleships.

 

Light Cruisers typically don't have that thick armor either, I haven't looked up these ships specifically but I'm assuming it'll be similar to Kutuzov who gets easily citadelled

 

No, they had nice thick armored belts.  They were tough customers, far and away better than the early tinclads in protection.

[Sirus_Patton]

It must be noted, the caliber isn't great and HE now does less damage depending on the armor thickness of the target as shown with 155-Mogami having an average of 120 damage per shell when firing at battleships.

 

Light Cruisers typically don't have that thick armor either, I haven't looked up these ships specifically but I'm assuming it'll be similar to Kutuzov who gets easily citadelled.

 

I'm hoping they buff the shell velocity of Cleveland once the light cruiser releases in a few months.

 

127mm belt is standard for all of those ships listed, anything but thin for a cruiser.

[IKU19]

Problem you run into with the Worcester is that they have to neuter "adjust" her AAA battery to something non-existent to put her as a tier 9.  It's very similar to trying to shoe-horn the Alaska-class as a tier 5-6 BB (which her stats would work with if you crippled the rate of fire) but it would require a fictional AAA build as she was identical to the North Carolina (who's AAA was too strong for tier 8).

 

They won't go through those lengths again, they screwed Cleveland up trying to do that. They didn't change a lot of Myoko's stats when they made her a T7.

Cleveland's AA is still too powerful for a T6.

[crzyhawk]

 

Problem you run into with the Worcester is that they have to neuter "adjust" her AAA battery to something non-existent to put her as a tier 9.  It's very similar to trying to shoe-horn the Alaska-class as a tier 5-6 BB (which her stats would work with if you crippled the rate of fire) but it would require a fictional AAA build as she was identical to the North Carolina (who's AAA was too strong for tier 8).

 

the 3" AA in game sucks on Des Moines, the 40mm are more efficient.  So, you'll really have  a NASTY primary AA battery ala-Atlanta on crack, backed up by meh 3" autoloaders that aren't as good in game as the 40mm they replace.

 

Whatever they do, they'll make sure that the USN continues to suck though.  ROF really isn't overly important when it's extremely difficult to hit due to trajectory.

[IKU19]

 

127mm belt is standard for all of those ships listed, anything but thin for a cruiser.

 

The belt armor isn't what i'm worried about, most cases you don't citadel through the belt because the angle is weird since the citadel hitbox is located below the belt for some reason. It's the internal model scheme, out of the cruisers, only heavy cruisers have internal armor layers with all add up to 190 to 250mm of armor.

 

On all ships, there is no armor beyond the belt though.

[crzyhawk]

 

They won't go through those lengths again, they screwed Cleveland up trying to do that. They didn't change a lot of Myoko's stats when they made her a T7.

Cleveland's AA is still too powerful for a T6.

 

one wears the rising sun, and the other the stars and stripes.  One is allowed to remain OP, the other is repeatedly whacked with the nerf bat.  The math does itself.

[crzyhawk]

 

The belt armor isn't what i'm worried about, most cases you don't citadel through the belt because the angle is weird. It's the internal model scheme, only heavy cruisers have internal armor layers with all add up to 190 to 250mm of armor.

 

The Brooklyn is the proto-type armor scheme for every USN cruiser to follow it up to and including the Des Moines class.  The USN realized they had a damned good design, and spammed it as long as they could.

[IKU19]

one wears the rising sun, and the other the stars and stripes.  One is allowed to remain OP, the other is repeatedly whacked with the nerf bat.  The math does itself.

 

I mean Cleveland was added pretty early on and the Myoko/Mogami swap was near the end of CBT. It was mostly due to Lesta experimenting on how to downtier/uptier ships properly and it seems like they gave up now (most recent case, Blyscawica)

 

The Brooklyn is the proto-type armor scheme for every USN cruiser to follow it up to and including the Des Moines class.  The USN realized they had a damned good design, and spammed it as long as they could.

 

It doesn't matter, Lesta may or may not stick to the pattern of anything below a certain tonnage having no internal armor for the sake of balance.

What might happen if they decide to do this though is remove citadels from light cruisers beyond tier 7 (which hopefully would include Atlanta and Kitakami)

[IronWolfV]

Seen some people talking and asking about it, so I figured I'd throw something together based on probability.  Now, conveniently this does follow the development of USN light cruisers from the Omaha to the last light cruiser class.

 

Tier 6:  Brooklyn-class (Cleveland replacement) 

While it does carry 15 6"/48 caliber guns, they only fired 6rpm in reality (stand corrected, 8rpm in reality though 6rpm is likely in-game) and as the shell does less damage than the Mogami in-game her DPS will be less.  Armor wise it's very similar to the Cleveland, but it's also the first US light cruiser to be built after the Omaha series.

 

Tier 7:  St. Louis-class (1938)

Basically a heavily-modified version of the Brooklyn, the St. Louis saw an increase in rate of fire from 6rpm to 7.5rpm, improved anti-air capabilities, and a move from exposed secondaries to twin 3"/38 caliber batteries that you see on most USN WWII warships.

 

Tier 8:  Cleveland-class

Here, we will likely see the Cleveland finally get her proper WWII AAA, as well as an un-nerfed rate of fire at around 10rpm (roughly on-par DPM wise with the Mogami).

 

Tier 9: Fargo-class

Basically taking everything good about the Cleveland and making it better, the Fargo has improved anti-air and an improved rate of fire.

 

Tier 10: Worcester-class

Here we reach the pennicle of USN light cruiser design.  Her main armament might be the same gun barrels as the Brooklyn and up, however they're mounted in high-rotation/high-elevation dual-purpose turrets, meaning that they function effectively in an AAA role.  Other than that, her AAA is basically identical to the Des Moines-class heavy cruisers.  She boasted an impressive 18rpm rate of fire (likely dropped to 14 in-game) and solid agility.

 

All in all, it's going to be a rather interesting if not controversial line.  It's a whole branch dedicated to eradicating destroyers, harassing carriers, and burning BBs to the waterline.

 

Edit:  Derped and put the wrong picture for Fargo-class.

 

Actually I'd say this class instead of the brooklyn.

 

I'd go with the Oakland sub class of the Atlanta(loses the wing turrets, gets a bit stronger AA) or go with the Juneau Class.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneau-class_cruiser

 

 

She omits the wing turrets for some more 40 mm cannons and has a redesigned super structure.  I think she'd fit better at tier 6 without having a 15 gun 155 cruiser which most would instantly scream OP!  This might be a tad less on the extreme don't ya think?