AI: either dumb as a doorknob or luckiest computer alive

[MerlinMedic]

I am a fairly new player to the game, about 1 month in and I have noticed something that aggravates me when playing against the AI:  either the AI is dumb as a rock or they are the luckiest player ever and I want them to pick my Lotto tickets.

 

Today I had an AI controlled DD stop broadside to my BB at a range of 6 Km.  Complete dead stop with no daage showing.  Needless to say I gave him a full broadside and sent him to Davy Jones.

 

Next I have my Nicholas Tier V DD (fully tricked out) zig-zagging between islands, laying smoke, going 39.? KPH.  The enemy 3 CA's are dodging my torpedo spread and my 2 teammates with CAs firing at them.  For some odd reason all 3 CAs fire at me (not a volly, but ragged).  Sure enough one, ONE shot hit my engines and I stop dead in the water for 40 seconds.  Needless to say by the 28th second or so I was swimming.  If this was a one time only event I'd blow it off, but it happens nearly every game with the AI:  they either are just driving in a straight line waiting to be killed, or they one shot you.  On the DD it has been running 50-50 between engines and torpedos hit first followed by the steering.  

 

Can we please get the AI adjusted to a happy medium, so those who have learned the basics can improve to the point we can PvP and not be a danger to our team?  Maybe a 3 level AI with the appropriate rewards?

[J30_Reinhardt]

In a DD, if you keep getting your engine shot like that might I suggest the tier 4 captain skill.

[SeaCaitiff]

I am a fairly new player to the game, about 1 month in and I have noticed something that aggravates me when playing against the AI:  either the AI is dumb as a rock or they are the luckiest player ever and I want them to pick my Lotto tickets.

 

Today I had an AI controlled DD stop broadside to my BB at a range of 6 Km.  Complete dead stop with no daage showing.  Needless to say I gave him a full broadside and sent him to Davy Jones.

 

Next I have my Nicholas Tier V DD (fully tricked out) zig-zagging between islands, laying smoke, going 39.? KPH.  The enemy 3 CA's are dodging my torpedo spread and my 2 teammates with CAs firing at them.  For some odd reason all 3 CAs fire at me (not a volly, but ragged).  Sure enough one, ONE shot hit my engines and I stop dead in the water for 40 seconds.  Needless to say by the 28th second or so I was swimming.  If this was a one time only event I'd blow it off, but it happens nearly every game with the AI:  they either are just driving in a straight line waiting to be killed, or they one shot you.  On the DD it has been running 50-50 between engines and torpedos hit first followed by the steering.

 

Can we please get the AI adjusted to a happy medium, so those who have learned the basics can improve to the point we can PvP and not be a danger to our team?  Maybe a 3 level AI with the appropriate rewards?

 

I can only speak to your DD experience.  It is VERY common to lose rudder or engines on DD's.  If you were fleeing, yoru starboard was probably showing, which is more likely to knock out your engines/steering.   Keep your repair for when you lose those and can't live w/o them. 

 

The lvl 4 captain skill will help a ton if/when you get it.  Now I use my repair for things like fires or guns that are damaged.

[Mason3ck]

Last time I checked the AI intentionally drive into torps (at least for me)

[SeaCaitiff]

Last time I checked the AI intentionally drive into torps (at least for me)

 

Heh, when I was new on OBT I made a bee line to the Langley.  Every match......my Fighters would take out his TPs first thing at mid map.   I thought "Wow, CVing IS easy"   Unfortunately I learned that humans are not as accommodating in their TP Sacrifices.  .

[Sotaudi]

AI is being improved.  Since the last patch, I have noted that Cruisers, especially, are zig-zagging more than they used to.  For the last few patches, they have also gotten more accurate, and tend to be a little smarter about picking targets.

 

As to the DD stopping right next to you, I have almost 1,800 Coop games, and I can state without reservation that I have never seen a bot ship do that.  The only time I have seen a bot ship stop is if it hit an island or got its engines hit.  DDs have no armor to speak of, and a shot can go through it taking out its engines without showing a large amount of damage.  I suspect that this is what happened.  It took a hit and lost its engines and just happened to run out of steam next to you.

 

As to your experience, welcome to DDs.  As indicated above, they have no armor.  They are very prone to losing modules.  Add to that the fact that they are small, and just about any hit is going to be landing near something vital.  If you use a DD, expect to lose your engines and steering at least once a match.

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

I'm sorry but there is no way to make a bot able to interpret and react to a real persons actions without making it borderline cheating, so in my opinion, Co-op is only for people who don't want to play a ship stock or who don't enjoy the abuse hurled at them for making small mistakes

[Fiona_Marshe]

When a bot reaches the middle of a CAP, they stop dead while the counter ticks down.  Once they have captured, the bot restarts again.

 

Happens every time (you can note this if you watch them).

[Sotaudi]

When a bot reaches the middle of a CAP, they stop dead while the counter ticks down.  Once they have captured, the bot restarts again.

 

Happens every time (you can note this if you watch them).

 

You have 16 games in Coop.  With all due respect (this is honestly not a criticism), how would you know what bots do "every time"?  This is an especially interesting comment since, in those 16 games you have 159 Capture points but only 6 Defense points for an average of almost exactly 10 capture points per game vs. less than .5 defense points per game, suggesting you are spending more time capturing bases than defending them.  Again, this not a criticism.  Winning is winning whether you prevent a cap or take it.  However, you simply don't have a sufficient basis for stating what bots do "every time."

 

 

By contrast, here are my qualifications to speak on the subject.  I have 1767 battles in Coop.  I have 9623 Base Defense points vs. 2738 Base Capture points, suggesting I spend 3.5 times the amount of effort defending bases that I do capturing them.  In other words, I watch them very closely and I am often the only one defending the base.

 

 

And what I can tell you without reservation is that I have not observed bots doing what you say, let alone doing it "every time."  In my experience, a Bot will sail into a capture point and, when it gets near the center, it will start sailing a circular course until the base is captured.  They will occasionally leave cap if the circumstances dictate it, but they never sail into the middle then just stop and wait for the cap.  I really wish they did what you suggest.  It would make stopping caps so much easier.

 

 

The only time you will see them stop in a cap is if they lose their engine, run into each other, or run into an island that happens to be in the cap.  In the latter case, it is not that they are intentionally stopping, but, rather, that they have yet to work out reliable code to avoid land and extricate themselves from having run aground once they do hit.

 

 

Sorry, but what you say simply is not the case.

 

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

 

You have 16 games in Coop.  With all due respect (this is honestly not a criticism), how would you know what bots do "every time"?  This is an especially interesting comment since, in those 16 games you have 159 Capture points but only 6 Defense points for an average of almost exactly 10 capture points per game vs. less than .5 defense points per game, suggesting you are spending more time capturing bases than defending them.  Again, this not a criticism.  Winning is winning whether you prevent a cap or take it.  However, you simply don't have a sufficient basis for stating what bots do "every time."

 

 

By contrast, here are my qualifications to speak on the subject.  I have 1767 battles in Coop.  I have 9623 Base Defense points vs. 2738 Base Capture points, suggesting I spend 3.5 times the amount of effort defending bases that I do capturing them.  In other words, I watch them very closely and I am often the only one defending the base.

 

 

And what I can tell you without reservation is that I have not observed bots doing what you say, let alone doing it "every time."  In my experience, a Bot will sail into a capture point and, when it gets near the center, it will start sailing a circular course until the base is captured.  They will occasionally leave cap if the circumstances dictate it, but they never sail into the middle then just stop and wait for the cap.  I really wish they did what you suggest.  It would make stopping caps so much easier.

 

 

The only time you will see them stop in a cap is if they lose their engine, run into each other, or run into an island that happens to be in the cap.  In the latter case, it is not that they are intentionally stopping, but, rather, that they have yet to work out reliable code to avoid land and extricate themselves from having run aground once they do hit.

 

 

Sorry, but what you say simply is not the case.

 

It's funny but path finding has been a long running AI issue is many games over the last 20 years and people still can not work out a good fix

[Sotaudi]

It's funny but path finding has been a long running AI issue is many games over the last 20 years and people still can not work out a good fix

 

I agree with you, but to be fair, think about that is involved.  Admittedly, movement in this game is on a two dimensional plane, so it should be easier than, say, moving a character in three dimensions over uneven land in an MMORPG.  Still, keep in mind, the land is not really there.  The ships are not really there.  They are all just data points in an imaginary world.  While you would think they would have gotten pathing down to a science by now, it is a mind-bogglingly complex task to move something that does not really exist through an environment that does not really exist without resorting to "cheating" by ignoring clipping and other impairments to movement.  When you multiply that task by 8 for each AI ship plus any fill-in bots for the human team, doing so without bogging down the processors just trying to keep the AI off land cannot be an easy task.

 

Besides, islands jump out at you.  I know. The constantly suddenly appear in front of me.  If we humans can't avoid them, how can a bot? 

 

 

 

 

[1nc0mp3t3nt_1]

 

I agree with you, but to be fair, think about that is involved.  Admittedly, movement in this game is on a two dimensional plane, so it should be easier than, say, moving a character in three dimensions over uneven land in an MMORPG.  Still, keep in mind, the land is not really there.  The ships are not really there.  They are all just data points in an imaginary world.  While you would think they would have gotten pathing down to a science by now, it is a mind-bogglingly complex task to move something that does not really exist through an environment that does not really exist without resorting to "cheating" by ignoring clipping and other impairments to movement.  When you multiply that task by 8 for each AI ship plus any fill-in bots for the human team, doing so without bogging down the processors just trying to keep the AI off land cannot be an easy task.

 

Besides, islands jump out at you.  I know. The constantly suddenly appear in front of me.  If we humans can't avoid them, how can a bot? 

 

 

 

 

The amount of times I get in BB-BB conflict and ask who the bloody genius was that put the island that I just hit is pretty funny, but I  incompetent after all

[yUPPatriots]

The majority of pve players have at least over a 75% wr. Are sure you want to make it easier? If anything it should be a lot harder.

 

 

i.e.

 

 

 

[MerlinMedic]

I'm sorry but there is no way to make a bot able to interpret and react to a real persons actions without making it borderline cheating, so in my opinion, Co-op is only for people who don't want to play a ship stock or who don't enjoy the abuse hurled at them for making small mistakes

 

I can't speak for others, but I use co-op to learn how to fight my ship and improve game play.  I realize they are not as good as human PvP, but when you sit out 15 of 20 minutes when playing against humans, I'll learn against the machine.

[SirMuttonChops]

One thing to remember is that the AI usually prioritizes the lowest HP in the group in the opening  minutes of the game, and by the end of it go with the easier kill mentality.

 

As DDs will always have the lowest HP, and generally the first to be spotted spotted, they tend to be focused first. Later on in the match, you can have a Battleship on 20K HP, and a cruiser on the same, and the AI will tend to favour going after the cruiser as despite both having equal HP, the cruiser is considered the easier kill compared to the Battleship.

[Hualalai]

Today I noticed that enemy fighters now sometimes actually leave the carrier and go after my bombers.  Surprised me because the AI nevef used to do that.

[MerlinMedic]

One thing to remember is that the AI usually prioritizes the lowest HP in the group in the opening  minutes of the game, and by the end of it go with the easier kill mentality.

 

As DDs will always have the lowest HP, and generally the first to be spotted spotted, they tend to be focused first. Later on in the match, you can have a Battleship on 20K HP, and a cruiser on the same, and the AI will tend to favour going after the cruiser as despite both having equal HP, the cruiser is considered the easier kill compared to the Battleship.

 

That could be the case.  I did notice that my DD was targeted when I tried to zerg the carrier.  I also saw both dumb and smart AI play in the same battle:  a BB was just sitting by an island protecting the carrier.  I fired a spread of torps at the BB and went port around the island, screening myself from the BB.  The BB sat there, took the torps and when I emerged from the blind spot the BB ignored me completely allowing me to sink the CV. 

[MerlinMedic]

Today I noticed that enemy fighters now sometimes actually leave the carrier and go after my bombers.  Surprised me because the AI nevef used to do that.

 

Since the update they have occasionally rammed me.  It actually was good game play as they were sinking and they took me out with themself.