Tirpitz AAA buff needed?

[hurricane_fighter]

I couldn't find a German Battleships thread/topic so I'm just sticking it in right here. (that's what she said)  >_<

 

OK, so why I'm actually here. I never really see that much flak coming off my Tirpitz, especially those 105mm double guns, so I'm suggesting a buff to the AA armament: make those double guns fire two shells into the air at once, to compensate for their long (crippling?) reload time. 

 

Maybe that's not historical, maybe I should have done more research...but I think this small buff would improve this battleship's AAA capabilities, since all the 20mm and 37mm autucannons are very short-ranged. 

 

Please feel free to share any opinion, but be courteous. 

[Rangestalker]

Honestly the Tirpitz is fine like it is.

 

In my opinion it is the best tier 8 BB. Let's not draw attention to it so instead of a buff we get a nerf.

 

[Sirus_Patton]

Tirpitz is supposed to have bad AAA, it's her only major flaw.  She's an absolutely amazing battleship (very noob friendly, and overwhelmingly powerful in the hands of a skilled player), but she carries a weakness at long range engagements and her poor AAA.

[devilman275]

beside just get the floating fighter plane if you need the aa that badly, like they said it suck at long range firefight so the spoting plane is worthless compared to the fighter

 

[Raven114]

I still want Laser beams, (duel mounted)

 

[hurricane_fighter]

I have the float fighter because of that long range. I agree, the Tirpitz is a great BB as is, I really love playing her........*WG nerfs Minekaze because people like her so much*  

 

 

[DoomStomper]

I just wish the game engine would allow the 20mm Flakvierling 38 on top of Bruno turret to actually function.

 

 

 

[hurricane_fighter]

Gosh, think of what it's like to be sitting on that quadruple 20mm when the guns fire...

[lrdgrd]

Tirpitz is supposed to have bad AAA, it's her only major flaw.  She's an absolutely amazing battleship (very noob friendly, and overwhelmingly powerful in the hands of a skilled player), but she carries a weakness at long range engagements and her poor AAA.

 

This!!

 

If you get a buff in AA, then you'd need a nerf somewhere else.  Id rather have poor AA and have the ship the way it is!  Poor AA can always be compensated with a CA companion, or CV cover, or just being aware of what planes are coming your way!

[Hirst]

A BB with torpedoes and a very heavy armament against surface ships and you want her to get a buff? x_x
She technically didn't need as much AA power during WWII because dive bombers didn't had enough firepower to penetrate it's very thick armor. A bomb had to be designed to penetrate her deck. lol Can you imagine how much threat that is. To provide your enemy with the need to upgrade armaments just to deal significant damage. lol

[vak_]

Tirpitz is fairly balanced right now. No need to buff the AA.

 

- content derpitz owner

 

hurricane_fighter, on 05 January 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

I never really see that much flak coming off my Tirpitz, especially those 105mm double guns, so I'm suggesting a bu

 

The tracers you see coming out of anti-air guns in-game are purely cosmetic. Instead of emulating AAA shells (which would be very resource-intensive), WG decided to create a "sphere" of damage around each AAA gun type. When the aircraft squadron is within the AAA radius it always take damage (you can see the average damage figures in port). However, when that squadron leaves the gun's range, all damage from a particular AA gun is reset -- so if you didn't shoot anything down, too bad for you.

[vak_]

She technically didn't need as much AA power during WWII because dive bombers didn't had enough firepower to penetrate it's very thick armor.

 

Not true. According to Garzke and Dulin, Tirpiz had a 5.12" deck armor over machinery (1.97+3.15), and 5.91" over magazines (1.97+3.94) at center-line, and 4.33" armor over both machinery and magazines at the outboard portion (slopes). Outside the citadel, they had 1.97" forward and 2.36" aft (thicker armor was needed to protect steering gear, etc)

 

And mind you -- combined armor thickness, i.e. more than one deck, as is a case with Tirpitz, is always less effective than a single armor deck of the same thickness (though in this case a two-deck arrangement was done on purpose -- Germans had hoped that top armor deck would initiate the fuse and the bomb would burst before it got through the bottom deck). Refer to this table, studies done during Midway-class design process:

 

 

Therefore. even a 1000lb AP bomb could defeat Tirpitz armor, though it would have to be dropped pretty high, thus lowering accuracy. With heavier bombs, the job became even easier.

 

And in fact, during an air attack on Scharnhorst at La Pallice in 1941, two 1000lb AP bombs penetrated the entire armor deck system and exited through the bottom hull plate. That BB class had 5.12" over machinery and 5.71" over magazines at center-line, and 6.11" over both machinery and magazines at sides (slopes).

[Fast_Battleship_Iowa]

 

Therefore, even a 1000lb AP bomb could defeat Tirpitz armor, though it would have to be dropped pretty high, thus lowering accuracy.

Sucks we've only got HE bombs as of now, I can only imagine the tears if we got AP bombs punching through decks. 

[RevolutionBlues]

"Tirpitz AAA buff needed?"

 

 

Seriously though, Tirpitz is the best tier VIII battleship currently in the game. A buff is not needed.

[vak_]

Sucks we've only got HE bombs as of now, I can only imagine the tears if we got AP bombs punching through decks. 

 

I know we don't have AP bombs in game (yet -- supposedly they are coming at some point), but I was replying to a comment about history

[DoomStomper]

And mind you -- combined armor thickness, i.e. more than one deck, as is a case with Tirpitz, is always less effective than a single armor deck of the same thickness (though in this case a two-deck arrangement was done on purpose -- Germans had hoped that top armor deck would imitate the fuse and the bomb would burst before it got through the bottom deck).

 

Interesting.  Kinda makes one question the effectiveness of the decapping plates we hear so much about.

 

Sucks we've only got HE bombs as of now, I can only imagine the tears if we got AP bombs punching through decks. 

 

The choice between AP and HE bombs would certainly add depth to CV gameplay while helping to make dive bombers more viable.  They've been brought up countless times by now but AFAIK, their eventual inclusion has neither been confirmed or denied by the devs.  Does anyone know if there are still any plans to have them in game?

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

You can always improve the AA by purchasing the upgrade module for it or the basic and advanced fire training skills for the Captain.

[Fog_Battleship_Yamashiro]

I think its fine. i downed 4 planes while the CA next to me didnt get any.

[Hirst]

 

Not true. According to Garzke and Dulin, Tirpiz had a 5.12" deck armor over machinery (1.97+3.15), and 5.91" over magazines (1.97+3.94) at center-line, and 4.33" armor over both machinery and magazines at the outboard portion (slopes). Outside the citadel, they had 1.97" forward and 2.36" aft (thicker armor was needed to protect steering gear, etc)

 

And mind you -- combined armor thickness, i.e. more than one deck, as is a case with Tirpitz, is always less effective than a single armor deck of the same thickness (though in this case a two-deck arrangement was done on purpose -- Germans had hoped that top armor deck would initiate the fuse and the bomb would burst before it got through the bottom deck). Refer to this table, studies done during Midway-class design process:

 

 

Therefore. even a 1000lb AP bomb could defeat Tirpitz armor, though it would have to be dropped pretty high, thus lowering accuracy. With heavier bombs, the job became even easier.

 

And in fact, during an air attack on Scharnhorst at La Pallice in 1941, two 1000lb AP bombs penetrated the entire armor deck system and exited through the bottom hull plate. That BB class had 5.12" over machinery and 5.71" over magazines at center-line, and 6.11" over both machinery and magazines at sides (slopes).

 

I know you got all technical on me, but I never said she didn't had, I said she didn't needed it.

She was sunk by 3 specially crafted bombs that needed to be dropped from 22km height to be entirely effective in penetrating the entirety of her armor. The midget SS dealt damage but it was repaired, If they had attack soon after that SS planted the mines under her hull, she'd been sunk way before the airraid with the Dambusters Squadron. She was a pretty sturdy ship, that's my point.

[EvilFD]

Yes she was well armored but nothing special. The TallBoys that the Lancasters dropped weren't specially crafted. They were simply very large. They were in no way designed for Tirpitz though. Both it, and it's bigger brother the Grand Slam, were what the British called earthquake bombs. Initially they were designed to hit underground depots, submarine pens, etc. The RAF used it on the Tirpitz because it was the best option they had (but very far from ideal). Had the RAF owned supremely accurate dive bombers and capable AP bombs they would have surely been used. "Bomber" Harris specifically bemoaned having to divert strategic bombers for a relatively unimportant tactical mission on multiple occasions. As it was, the Lancasters and the TallBoys were basically the best munition and deployment method the RAF had for the job. Had the Tirpitz served in the Pacific it would have been just as easily shattered by IJN/American dive bombers that other capital ships were.

[Mesrith]

The Tirpitz is good to great in every other category, it's fine with mediocre AA.  Even then, if you choose to buff your AA, the midrange AA can be surprisingly good.

[vak_]

The choice between AP and HE bombs would certainly add depth to CV gameplay while helping to make dive bombers more viable.  They've been brought up countless times by now but AFAIK, their eventual inclusion has neither been confirmed or denied by the devs.  Does anyone know if there are still any plans to have them in game?

 

Yes, there are plans for sure. I've seen devs confirm that on the RU forum.

 

She was sunk by 3 specially crafted bombs that needed to be dropped from 22km height to be entirely effective in penetrating the entirety of her armor.

 

Tollboys weren't dropped from 22km -- RAF Lancasters couldn't even operate at that altitude.

 

And my entire point was, that while Tirpitz deck armor was never defeated by AP bombs from dive bombers of that time, it was merely due to the lack of trying -- even at the start of the war the SBD already carried 1000lb AP bombs which would definitively could have severely damaged that ship.

[Taichunger]

No AA buff needed. Tirpitz is probably WG's best balanced premium. Why mess with perfection?

[TheGirlFromIpanema]

 

[vak_]

No AA buff needed. Tirpitz is probably WG's best balanced premium. Why mess with perfection?

 

Yup. It's about on par with Amagi (perhaps a bit worse), and somewhat better than NC.