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sulghunter331

Hydroacoustic Search and the CAs' Capacity for Hunting DDs

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Recently, I have come to the realization that the Defensive Fire cooldown is next to useless with carriers being the endangered species that they are. Not wanting to let a consumable slot go to waste, I switched to using the Hydro acoustic Search consumable , but I have found that it's performance is lackluster at most. As far as a I can tell, the consumable is supposed to defeat smoke screens, revealing destroyers attempting to use the invisi-fire tactic, and to detect torpedoes sooner and farther out. In both regards, this consumable does not seem to perform well enough to really warrant it's selection over the defensive fire consumable. The only reason I have switched to the search consumable is because it's modicum of usefulness is still greater than the complete uselessness the defensive fire consumable in the majority of matches.

 

If the Hydro acoustic Search consumable was meant to help cruisers hunt down destroyers, then it's range should be increased dramatically. Currently, it boosts the acquisition range of cruisers by ~1.5 km. This minor boost in the spotting range is what makes the search consumable so lackluster. With the boost, You still have to close to suicidal ranges to detect a destroyer in it's smoke screen, at which point the destroyer can launch torpedoes at a range that no cruiser can hope to avoid. This leads to a cath-22 for a cruiser captain who's goal is to eliminate the destroyer's threat. Either stay at a distance, and allow the destroyer to attack the fleet with impunity in it's smoke screen, or to get closer in so that the hydro acoustic search module can spot the destroyer, but also too close for the cruiser to reliably avoid torpedo attacks from the destroyer in question. If the range of the search consumable was increased, then cruiser will be more able to spot destroyers without having to rely on carriers, who already have enough on their plates.

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It's only slightly useful on the german cruisers at high tiers unfortunately, the range on the other nations is as you said lacklustre.  

 

Editwould be nice to have extra range, gives an alternative to defensive fire.

Edited by Sinboto

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Problem with Hydroacoustic Search is that it's still balanced for CBT/Alpha smoke, which was bigger, lasted longer, and the consumable was active longer so hydro was actually useful with that scenario. But instead of buffing it, they gave the german ships the buffed variant. Ships are forced to detect at 5km with the German variant, I think.

 

N.B. It wouldn't be uncommon, the US variant of smoke is superior than the other variants, lasts longer and is active longer.

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I've never had a problem using it unless some bright soul on the enemy team decided to discourage me from closing on their DD by firing really big projectiles at me.

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Problem with Hydroacoustic Search is that it's still balanced for CBT/Alpha smoke, which was bigger, lasted longer, and the consumable was active longer so hydro was actually useful with that scenario. But instead of buffing it, they gave the german ships the buffed variant. Ships are forced to detect at 5km with the German variant, I think.

 

N.B. It wouldn't be uncommon, the US variant of smoke is superior than the other variants, lasts longer and is active longer.

And that is why I want KM cruisers.

They remind me of a sniper, tracking their prey and finding a position that will knock them out in a few blows.

Also I hope you realize that hydro acoustic works for torpedos, through mountains and islands, and of course smoke (though that's pointless as DD's are found at 2km at the most extreme)

 

*Edit: P.S. Hydro acoustic is meant for torpedos first, not destroyers.

P.P.S Where did you get the idea its for DD's? it was made for anti torpedo in WW2 to begin with...

Edited by Mason3ck

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I never had any use for it. Never seemed to do anything for me, so I always replaced it with the Defensive AA consumable.

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The problem is that Hydroaccoustic doesn't do what it SEEMS like it's supposed to do.

 

All it means is that if an enemy is within 3.5km of your ship, they're detected. That's... nearly useless.

Unless there's a rock in the way or smoke, you'll see the ship way past 3.5 or even the 2km auto-detect range.

If there is a rock, target's probably either within 2 or farther than 3.5 anyway. Most LOS blocking rocks are quite large.

If there's smoke, entering 3.5km is already hard (Destroyer should evade you, unless it went still), in which case you're entering torpedo-death range. 

 

Torp detect bonus is nice at least.

 

Honestly, it should be replaced with a flat 'reduce enemy concealment' bonus, so that you can detect that DD at say, 9km instead of 6km. Call it 'Alert Spotters' or something. That'd at least give it SOME use and allow Cruisers to actually hunt DDs, instead of being at their mercy if they aren't detected.

 

Ironically, the way the game works... DDs are actually Submarines, stealthy and able to strike anything. Cruisers are actually destroyers, fragile and able to hunt subs, only if a friend spots them (ASW Planes).

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The problem is that Hydroaccoustic doesn't do what it SEEMS like it's supposed to do.

 

All it means is that if an enemy is within 3.5km of your ship, they're detected. That's... nearly useless.

Unless there's a rock in the way or smoke, you'll see the ship way past 3.5 or even the 2km auto-detect range.

If there is a rock, target's probably either within 2 or farther than 3.5 anyway. Most LOS blocking rocks are quite large.

If there's smoke, entering 3.5km is already hard (Destroyer should evade you, unless it went still), in which case you're entering torpedo-death range. 

 

Torp detect bonus is nice at least.

 

Honestly, it should be replaced with a flat 'reduce enemy concealment' bonus, so that you can detect that DD at say, 9km instead of 6km. Call it 'Alert Spotters' or something. That'd at least give it SOME use and allow Cruisers to actually hunt DDs, instead of being at their mercy if they aren't detected.

 

Ironically, the way the game works... DDs are actually Submarines, stealthy and able to strike anything. Cruisers are actually destroyers, fragile and able to hunt subs, only if a friend spots them (ASW Planes).

 

This so much.

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The problem is that Hydroaccoustic doesn't do what it SEEMS like it's supposed to do.

 

All it means is that if an enemy is within 3.5km of your ship, they're detected. That's... nearly useless.

Unless there's a rock in the way or smoke, you'll see the ship way past 3.5 or even the 2km auto-detect range.

If there is a rock, target's probably either within 2 or farther than 3.5 anyway. Most LOS blocking rocks are quite large.

If there's smoke, entering 3.5km is already hard (Destroyer should evade you, unless it went still), in which case you're entering torpedo-death range. 

 

Torp detect bonus is nice at least.

 

Honestly, it should be replaced with a flat 'reduce enemy concealment' bonus, so that you can detect that DD at say, 9km instead of 6km. Call it 'Alert Spotters' or something. That'd at least give it SOME use and allow Cruisers to actually hunt DDs, instead of being at their mercy if they aren't detected.

 

Ironically, the way the game works... DDs are actually Submarines, stealthy and able to strike anything. Cruisers are actually destroyers, fragile and able to hunt subs, only if a friend spots them (ASW Planes).

Torp Detect is the main reason you would put it on ROFL.

Again I ask where you people are getting this false idea that Hydro Acoustic is FOR DD's

Sure you can hear their motors in the water if you cant see them, but why you would use it other than for anti torp is beyond me. Using this on a IJN/KM cruiser is also beyond me.

Also: Plez uze cmmen seins!

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Instead of just giving increased guaranteed detect range, sonar should also show a wedge indicating the general direction of the closest invisible enemy ship, with the wedge narrowing as you got closer.

 

The specific position of the undetected ship within the arc would be random, but roughly near the center. This would give sonar more uses than 'pop when heading into smoke'.

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Torp Detect is the main reason you would put it on ROFL.

Again I ask where you people are getting this false idea that Hydro Acoustic is FOR DD's

Sure you can hear their motors in the water if you cant see them, but why you would use it other than for anti torp is beyond me. Using this on a IJN/KM cruiser is also beyond me.

Also: Plez uze cmmen seins!

Cummen seins would dictate that in reality destroyers can't see through their own smoke in and aren't being data-linked precise information on enemy ship movements. So that isn't an argument.

 

So yeah, it is supposed to work against DDs. Currently it is underpowered.

Edited by Lampshade_M1A2

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I think both consumables are broken.

 

The AA defense used to cause plane bombers and torps to spread way out. That is no longer the case, and it doesn't shoot down any more planes than without. In fact, I think I shoot more down when its on cooldown, or just not activated.

The Hydo seems definitely broken or not working for smoke mitigation. It somewhat works for torpedo detection, but that isn't enough. It's a waste of a consumable slot.

 

Personally, I think I should have both available every round. Maybe they share the same cooldown, but deciding beforehand is dumb.

Also think, the Hydro search would be better suited for DD's, rather than the speed boost.

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German Hydroacoustic is remarkably good. 5km guaranteed detection might not seem great, but that's 5km through islands and smoke, which on knife fight maps is absolutely amazing.

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Tried it out in a couple battles with the Atlanta just now,

Picks up DDs hiding behind islands inside cap.  When I charged the cap and popped the sonar, it seems to make their '! Detected' light up as they weren't too surprised.


 

Also picks up the torps the moment they fire them.... nice.


 

I made it a point to let it get ready for the next cap I charged.  Tried again,...  running gun battle...  DD popped smoke - didn't work for him.  Gunned him down - but just after he unloaded 12-16 torps ...  saw the torps - turned..  damn, couldn't outrun them.

One hit jammed my rudder hard over and a second one hit me on the nose.  Repair wasn't ready ..  sunk by flooding, but it took enough time for me to flood to take the cap.

That was coooooold 'Northern Lights' so I'll be sipping cocoa in front of a fire for a while.

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Instead of just giving increased guaranteed detect range, sonar should also show a wedge indicating the general direction of the closest invisible enemy ship, with the wedge narrowing as you got closer.

 

The specific position of the undetected ship within the arc would be random, but roughly near the center. This would give sonar more uses than 'pop when heading into smoke'.

 

^ This is a good idea.

 

+1

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