A detailed look at Rivadavia

[dseehafer]

Greetings all,

 

    Today we shall be looking at the Argentinian battleships Rivadavia and Moreno beacause i had a request to do another minor nation ship. The story of the rivadavia class battleships can be traced back to the intense naval competition between South American countrys such as Chile, Argentina and Brazil which was prominent from the 1890's through the early 1900's. When Brazil anounced that it would begin the construction of 2 new battleships (Minas Geraes class) it put the world in shock, the new battleships would be the most powerful in the world by a long shot. Argentina and Chile quickly cancelled the 1902 armament-limiting pact and looked to obtain new battleships. Argentina in particular was rather alarmed by the threat of the Minas Geraes class battleships, Manuel de Oca remarked that even one Minas Geraes type battleship could easily destroy the entire Argentinian and Chilean fleets, never mind two of them. While this may have been hyperbole, the Minas Geraes was certainly more powerful than anything Argentina or Chile currently possesed. Argentina raised the money for two new battleships and ordered them from the Fore River Shipbuilding Company in the United States. After much delay in the process of building the ships (Due to america fearing that Argentina would sell them to Japan to raise money to pay for more schools) the Rivadavia was commissioned on the 27th of August, 1914. Besides being sent for modernization in 1923, the ships never did anything, they either sat, or took cruises, but they never fired their guns in anger. Although Argentina was technically neutral during WWII it is no secret that Argentina was providing alot of funding for the German war effort and the Rivadavia ships themselves spent much of the war in German ports, so in game i would put them as premium ships in the German tree. Lets take a look at 'em shall we?

 

WEIGHT - 32,600t

 

This puts her at tier 4, although shes very close to tier 5 range.

 

ARMOR 

Belt: 250-300mm

Decks: 76- 114mm

Turrets: 305mm

Armored Bridge: 300mm

 

for tier 4, Rivadavia is very well armored, in fact she is the most heavily armored tier 4 battleship.

 

MAIN BATTERY - 6x2 305mm

 

Same broadside as the Wyoming

 

SECONDARY BATTERY - 12x1 152mm

 

6 guns to a broadside is, decent, nothing to freak out over though.

 

AA BATTERY - 4x1 76mm, 4x1 40mm

 

AA is rather poor, but its better than Arkansas' ;)

 

SPEED - 22.5kn

 

not bad down at tier 4, shell outpace anything American. Shell outpace most dreds period.

 

CONCLUSION - Overall i think she'd make a lovely premium ship, boasting a powerful broadside and great armor as well as good hitpoints, her only major drawback is her lack of AA, but even that isnt major. shes not fast, but shes not slow, as more dreadnoughts are added to the game 32.5kn will be considered fast for tier 4.

 

PROS

Thick armor

powerful broadside

isnt slow (by dred standards)

good hitpoints

 

CONS

weak AA

 

Well hope you all enjoyed this one, let me know what you think, and as always, have a good day!

 

 

[Sirus_Patton]

That's an interesting turret placement, half Kawachi half Wyoming.  Would certainly be interesting as a German premium ship too.  Bah, take my +1 sir.

[dseehafer]

That's an interesting turret placement, half Kawachi half Wyoming.  Would certainly be interesting as a German premium ship too.  Bah, take my +1 sir.

 

more likey Fuso in layout that Wyoming... and Thanks! 

[IronWolfV]

Very pretty ship, well done. Still waiting for some cruisers. Or even DDs. Or hell some carriers!

[suleiman71]

Rivadavia would make a good tier 4 for the second USN BB line.

EDIT: 22.5 knots, not 32.5 knots.

[caioXkiller]

not bad.

[AutismSpeaks]

Rivadavia would make a good tier 4 for the second USN BB line.

 

EDIT: 22.5 knots, not 32.5 knots.

 

So an Argentinian BB would make a great USN BB?  Are we pretending that it was lend-leased?

 

+1 for OP....very nice.

[suleiman71]

 

So an Argentinian BB would make a great USN BB?  Are we pretending that it was lend-leased?

 

+1 for OP....very nice.

 

It's a suitable option. It is very similar to our own battleships, similar enough it wouldn't be a huge deal of difference.

 

I wasn't even the person to first bring it up in the W.W.K.A.S thread.

[Lampshade_M1A2]

So this is what happened when a Wyoming gets lost south of the border?

[Captain_Dorja]

 

So an Argentinian BB would make a great USN BB?  Are we pretending that it was lend-leased?

 

+1 for OP....very nice.

 

Good to see this clown is back.

[suleiman71]

So this is what happened when a Wyoming gets lost south of the border?

 

Yup, literally Wyoming's half brother

[suleiman71]

I hate spending time to prove my points to the stupid.

 

Credit to Tricineron or whatever his name is

 

The historical US ships basically break down by tiers as follows:

South Carolina class - Tier 3

Delaware class - Tier 3

Florida class - Tier 3

Wyoming class - Tier 4

New York class - Tier 5

Nevada class - Tier 6

Pennsylvania class - Tier 6

New Mexico class - Tier 6

Tennessee class - Tier 7

Colorado class - Tier 7

North Carolina class - Tier 8

South Dakota class - Tier 8

Iowa class - Tier 9

 

Projects that were far enough along to be assigned names:

Lexington class - Tier 7 (probably, only relevant if there is a merged BB/BC line which I judge unlikely)

South Dakota '20 class - Tier 8 (probably)

Montana class - Tier 10

 

As an unorthodox option, the Argentine Rivadavia class was built in a US shipyard and is similar to US ships. She could fit as a four.

 

Everything else has to be paper.

 

There were multiple studies conducted in the lead-in to the Iowa and Montana designs, and likely the 9 and 10 will come from this pool. Probably the Tier 9 will be heavily armored so it is as different as possible from the fast Iowa, and the Tier 10 will be fast to differentiate it from the armored Montana. They might even re-arrange the lines so the fast ships are together and the armored ships together. mr3awsome can probably give you some possible project numbers.

 

Tiers 6 thru 8 are easy, as you can see above.

 

Tier 5 gets trickier. You could simply not have the lines split until Tier 5. You could crush Nevada with the nerf-bat and cram her in. You could implement Nevada and simply not give her her refits, like they did with the Furutaka. You could find a fairly obscure paper design.

 

Tier 4 is even more difficult unless you go the Argentine route, since the Americans were building battleships every year few paper designs fell through the cracks.

 

Tier 3 you have options.

 

If you want a battlecruiser line, you can find a lot of information here on what the NWC was thinking. They never built them, but they did keep updated what USN battlecruisers would have looked like if built.

 

Here are my personal suggestions:

BB Line 2:

3 - Delaware (Better than South Carolina, but Tier 3 balance isn't a major concern)

4 - Rivadavia (Better armor but worse firing arcs than Wyoming)

5 - Nevada '18 (Better armor and firing arcs but worse range and AA than New York)

6 - Pennsylvania (Better secondaries but worse gun handling than New Mexico)

7 - Tennessee (Smaller but more guns than Colorado)

8 - SoDak '39 (Better armored against gunfire but less well against torpedoes than North Carolina)

9 - Armored Iowa variant

10 - Fast Montana variant

 

BC Line:

3 - "The NWC's 1903 annual summer conference report, which included a staff memorandum on all-big-gun capital ships, also suggested a new type of cruiser that would be armed and armored much like a battleship. The following year, the summer conference considered tactics for a ship armed with four 12-inch (305 mm), twenty-two 3-inch (76 mm) guns, four submerged torpedo tubes and battleship-type protection. Ships such as these were essentially Tennessee-class ships in which the 6-inch (150 mm) intermediate battery had been traded for heavier main guns and protection."
4 - "By adopting a 670-foot (204 m) hull on a displacement of 26,000 long tons (26,417 t), it could produce a vessel that could travel at 25.5 knots (47.2 km/h; 29.3 mph) and carry eight 50-caliber 12-inch guns guns in four twin turrets and equivalent armor [to the Wyoming].

5 - "On 29 August, it suggested that C&R research a ship under 30,000 tons that could steam at 29 knots (54 km/h), carry eight 14-inch (360 mm) and twenty-four 5-inch (130 mm) guns and have a protective system comparable to the Nevada-class battleships. In other words, the board requested an American version of the Kongō."

6 - Preliminary Lexington design with 10x14" guns.

7 - Lexington as actually planned with 8x16" guns.

The line then ends with connections to both North Carolina and the Lexington CV.

 

Quotes from the Wiki article I just posted, feel free to dig around in their sources.

 

The 1920s South Dakota then gives us a high tier premium option, the fully refit Nevada a tier 6 premium option, and Florida a low-tier premium option.

[BrunoSchezer]

Was a good read, +1 mate.

 

Also, to add a bit more of info: there was a "contest" among various shipyards who send designs to be approved by the Argentinians between germany, italy and great britain before ended selecting US to construct the ship.

 

Also, we can expect a posible variant of the class with the 356mm main guns or some of the non selected/previous designs like this one:

 

 

 

 

[suleiman71]

Was a good read, +1 mate.

 

Also, to add a bit more of info: there was a "contest" among various shipyards who send designs to be approved by the Argentinians between germany, italy and great britain before ended selecting US to construct the ship.

 

Also, we can expect a posible variant of the class with the 356mm main guns or some of the non selected/previous designs like this one:

 

 

 

 

 

So basically an Argentinian Fuso? 

[BrunoSchezer]

In part, yes, that design have 15 x 305mm triple main guns, one more gun than the Rio de Janeiro battleship (the Agincourt)

[dseehafer]

Rivadavia would make a good tier 4 for the second USN BB line.

 

EDIT: 22.5 knots, not 32.5 knots.

 

It was built in america, yeas. But thats about the only thing American about it, especially considering that Argentina and america hated eachother from then on well into the 70's. Its more of a European design rather than an American one.. for example wing turrets are not at all an American trademark. Its a ship run by Nazi collaborators and supporters, doesnt belong in the american line IMO.

[dseehafer]

Very pretty ship, well done. Still waiting for some cruisers. Or even DDs. Or hell some carriers!

 

did a cruiser yesterday.. and i dont do DD's or CV's because i dont play them, and therefore do not see myself fit to do a review on how a destroyer or carrier will play in game when i dont even know how the ones we already have in game play.

[Captain_Dorja]

The US and Argentina aren't super friendly right now really either. We get a good bit of oil from them, so we tolerate them, but there was quite a lot of tension between Chavez and G. W. Bush in the first decade of the 2000s. A huge part of the storyline of Rainbow Six 3 was an oil embargo on the US from Argentina. We actually got pretty close to a real trade dispute for a bit there around that time.

[BrunoSchezer]

Oh yes, i forget about this, if someone want more info, see this topic to complement:

 

ARA-Rivadavia

[IronWolfV]

 

did a cruiser yesterday.. and i dont do DD's or CV's because i dont play them, and therefore do not see myself fit to do a review on how a destroyer or carrier will play in game when i dont even know how the ones we already have in game play.

 

Do some research. Might find some cool stuff you didn't know before.

[suleiman71]

Rivadavia, Wyoming, Florida, and Delaware all have the same type of 12"/50.

[dseehafer]

Rivadavia, Wyoming, Florida, and Delaware all have the same type of 12"/50.

 

yes but does that justify them being in the american tree? The Kongo was built in Britain and has British guns, so by your logic the Kongo should be British right? I still say Germany mate.

[dseehafer]

Oh yes, i forget about this, if someone want more info, see this topic to complement:

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/8468-ara-rivadavia-class-battleship/

 

lulz the shortened link says A$$ - battleship! 

[suleiman71]

 

yeah, so. Does that justify them being in the american tree? The Kongo was built in Britain and has British guns, so by your logic the Kongo should be British right? I still say Germany mate.

 

I was never trying to put a point across in the first place.

 

 

lulz the shortened link says A$$ - battleship! 

 

Because it obviously is an assbattleship, with its absolutely huge frame and butt.

[dseehafer]

 

Because it obviously is an assbattleship, with its absolutely huge frame and butt.

 

Hey! That aint a bad thing mate ;)