Its the Player, not the ship.. no nerfing

[Deadeye_Pete]

Hey gents  (I say Gents out of courtesy as it may not always be true)

 

Learn to fight with what you have.   There is nothing wrong with the ships in the game.. 

 

World of warships is mostly a sim.. with arcade elements tossed in to allow the game to be more fun.  

 

But the important point is.....

 

ITS NOT THE SHIPS.. ITS THE PLAYER!

 

of course some folks get real upset when faced with reality.. Reality does that, and not just in world of warships. either!  

 

I have taken a tier 2 ship into high high tier battles.. had a great time getting ignored... right up until I sunk some cocky player who assumed (very stupidly in my opinion) that a low tier ship wasn't a threat.  Its got gun, or torps, or planes with bombs and torps, they shoot, they kill.  All else is rubish and emotive crap.  Its a warship, not a pleasure yacht. 

 

You as a player control one ship only... don't read the developing battle right and you will hang YOU SELF out to dry.   Zig when you should have Zagged and you suck up torps., or drive into a salvo.. come around an island utterly focused on a target 12k or more away away and not see the DD that has managed to sneak up on you. etc etc etc!

 

The two most difficult skills to learn in this game has zip nothing to do with game mechanics.

 

first and for most is AWARENESS  of what is going on around you... work on it, develop it, expand it... Be Aware.

 

Which ties right into the second most important skill.... Reading the Mini map...and being able to predict the most likely actions of an opposing ship or ships. (and also friendly ships...Go into a fight alone and you will die alone....)  It is the only tool you have other then your brain to figure out what the other side is doing/where they are going.

 

No one talks really about reading the map, mostly because its difficult to quantify.. but you must pay attention to whats happening beyond where you can see.  It takes time to learn, because ti requires experience in  game to learn what your looking at.  The "terrain" on the map is important, but only so much as it channels ships movements into predictable patterns, and might mask a ship from firing or being fired at.   Even the open ocean map  with zero terrain is simple...and no one ever if rarely goes "up the middle"   Because of the nature of ships, movement becomes rather predictable on the large scale.  (as in really stupidly "that's what they always do" predictable) 

 

A simply example if half your team goes east, and half west.. one half of the team runs into 2/3 of the other team while a hand full of ships fight and delay, and distract the other half of your team..

 

Half your team gets wiped out... and suddenly the other team has a strong numerical advantage..

 

Your team can no longer win a strait up brawl, all things being equal, but perhaps you have better position.. and time and space to take the enemy cap before they take yours.

 

Its all very difficult to quantify when the person your trying to explain it to simply doesn't have a frame of reference for it all yet.   And learning that frame of reference in this game like any other PvP game can be very frustrating for a player.

 

And on top of everything else..., and adding to the backround noise is a nasty habit to many agmers have of always blaming...

 

My team mate suck.

They use aim bots...

They are hacking the game.

My ship needs to be buffed,

their ship needs to be nerfed cuz its OP.

 

Blame games.. sheesh.  It'll never end.  After all its a human thing to blame others instead of taking personal responsibility for what you did or didn't do.   And you can do everything right and still loose.. your entire (ad hoc) team can do everything right, and you still loose the match.  Because the other team did more right then your team.. they were just better.

 

If you loose a match it is because the other TEAM and its PLAYERS were better then YOUR team and its PLAYERS.      There might be a bunch of niggling details that might have contributed...the match making system gets blamed a awful lot.   Luck can be a factor, but luck good or bad can be off set by intelligent play.

 

What makes WoWS enjoyable for me is the history of the ships, the era's covered, the sheer variety of what you get to play with (and more coming all the time.. but bear in mind each ship takes months to do... its not just the mesh and the skinning... there is a whole bunch under the hood that has to be paid attention to and gotten right.  All entirely to technical.. but bear in mind that naval ships during the hay day of the gun ship were THE rocket science of the day.  Battleships aircraft carriers, destroyers, carriers and their aircraft were the high tech of their day.

 

You as a player of world of warships after a few months of playing have more (more or less) battle experience then in actual fighting then any ships captain that ever commanded a ship of war during the age of steam.   And unlike your real world counterparts there is always a next time.  Real world warship captains pretty much had to make it up as they went based apon all they had been taught.

 

You, unlike them get a chance to learn from your errors in the game.

 

Yes, someone else's error can get your ship sunk.... but the vast majority of the time in this game the errors are not someone else's, they are yours.  Winning a match in world of warships is an awful lot like a game of baseball... It not some much about winning (like american football) as not loosing.   About managing failure.  Errors, mistakes, mis-judgements, poor decisions are normal.  Everyone makes them..  Learning to compensate for them is the art of the game.  Those that master it (more or less) are the top ranked players.   The rest of us will just have to muddle through and have fun.

 

One last point.  When your in a match, if your lucky and have been good to your mother, small children, and old folks ad nausum you'll actually HAVE a team.. mostly you will have a mob driving around in warships.   Trust me, its far easier to herd cats.  We don't have real "team" battles yet.. (someday I hope!)     I play an MMO  called Aion which is grindy, difficult unbalanced, un-equal, and in end game is all about open world PvP.. You go wandering around by your self you better be running a hack, or just be really really geared out and damd good.  I play as part of a guild/legion and we defiantly team play.  Every one in the legion at one point or another gets to "boss" a fight. and we have strict rules... if you go off to do your own thing, or chase shineys in the middle of a fortress siege you will get kicked out of the legion because if your not staying with the team, maneuvering with the team, and jumping into the fight with the team, and not paying attention to the team/legion goals for the battle (and it only takes one person screwing up) then the fight is lost, and the legion does poorly.  The fight might be a unwinnable anyway, but there is always a goal that can be achieved.   We don't have this in World of Warships yet.  It's still "EVERYBODY SOLO!"

We don't have team synergies happening but rarely, or real co-operation between players (even with ships in the same division).   We have sides in matches, we don't have teams, or team structure, or team leadership. SO deal with it.  Until we do have such it is what it is.

 

Don't blame game, don't make excuses.. if your side lost, it was because the other side was better.

And you have zip control over better, over anyone other then your self.    And this isn't going to change even when WG introduces real team play and structure into the game. The only difference that going to happen when formal team structure is introduced, is that team/fleet/clan owners will have the ability to remove players from their teams that just aren't up to par/skill/ability from their team, or those that don't contribute to the team effort.  I'm sure it'll get stupidly "political" and petty.  The teams that get past that, with good solid leadership (also a skill, not a talent.. some folk are just not any good at leadership..)

 

Deadeye pete sends..

 

 

Mal: Shepherd!  I'm shocked! I thought the good book says though shalt not kill?

Shepherd Bok:  True, but the good lord said nothing about knee capping.

 

Firefly, font of all wisdom!

 

 

 

   

 

[BGrey]

Of course the player is important. However it is also obvious that a capable player will do better in some ships compared to others. I don't know how you can write a post that long without thinking about this.

[Patralli]

BGrey,

 

It's not the ships as he stated. It's the player. I'm pants in anything other than a BB. (Yes I love my BBs). Just like WoT I like my heavies. It's not about the ship, but how the player handles said ship as you said. I've seen players take the "worst" tanks and dominate a map and have seen a player in WoWs do the same all because of his skill in a particular class of ship. 

 

Ships are fine the way they are. Players just need to learn the strong and weak points of each.

[KiwiColdbeer]

Of course the player is important. However it is also obvious that a capable player will do better in some ships compared to others. I don't know how you can write a post that long without thinking about this.

 

Anyone has the potential to become a "capable player" as you put it, given enough time and effort.

And therein lies the problem.

Many people do not want to expend any effort....they just want to be able to sink everything.....all the time. And it has to be the games fault when they cannot do so.

Every one of those that complain thinks of themselves as the "best player ever".....so it could not possibly be their own shortcomings...as they seemingly don't have any.

Its an attitude that is becoming more and more prevalent due to the fact that, as the OP hinted at, too many people are unable to take responsibility for their own actions.

And there is no easy fix to that.

 

Cheers

Coldbeer

 

[Drakausa]

WOWS has not tried to achieve any balance between the wide variety of player skills. That would be near impossible in any game. WOWS is trying to achieve some semblance of balance of ship types within a single TIER. Then they allow the tier ranges of ships to range between 1 or 2 tiers to provide the competition. That is where the player skill comes in. Learning how to play your ship type and have some idea about opponents ship type, then your skill at twitch/click combat makes up the competition. However, without C&C (Command and Control - ie clans) the decisions made by numerous players without overall strategy or guidance creates the havoc we see rampant in the numerous matches. Luck plays more of a part in the present matches than most anything else. The only real answer for player skill are Clans (or task Forces or Fleets) that can give some stable form of tactics and (strategy for different maps) where it is the players ship handling skill in a functioning team that determines most match results. This is just a generalized observation but having designed games for two companies prior to being retired now, it is what I see in WOWS. They have decided what they intend to do and I think we will simply have to wait until they work out the format of clan operation and activities. Like many, it is hard to be patient.

[bad_arcade_kitty]

i saw a wyoming recently who queued with blyskavica and went into like tier 8 battle or so

he sunk 2 ships and probably thought he was a hot crap but actually he ksed two ships with lucky shots, ended at the bottom of the table and we lost because we lacked a real bb

[centarina]

I had 2 wyo driving   doing formation hiding from enemy while enemy capped.  We lost even though I got 5 kills with confed and they could have turned the table    he said I was a loser for sinking    there are lot of idiots in lower tier.

[BubbleRapper]

I don't see why pointing out that individual players have different skill levels and sometimes different aptitudes for different types of ships means that it's impossible for some ships to be objectively superior to other ones. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

I assume that you people would not think that a ship that fired 20rpm and killed everything in 1 hit and had epic armor and speed etc would be "100% up to the player". No, that's [edited]. It's an extreme example but it proves the principle. All balancing in the game is just a less severe version of what I just mentioned.

 

The fact is that the average damage and win/loss of ships can differ radically from other ships of the same tier when played by thousands of players. There will of course always be some fluctuation, but when one ship is doing nearly double the damage of the others of its tier for thousands of players then clearly some balance is required. The vast majority of players do indeed experience themselves finding certain ships much easier to do very high damage in or survive way more than that ship probably should for balance etc.

I agree that we should not rush to demanding nerfs/buffs all the time, and people need to learn to recognize their own weaknesses. However, in many cases ships and mechanics do need adjustments too. 

[KiwiColdbeer]

I don't see why pointing out that individual players have different skill levels and sometimes different aptitudes for different types of ships means that it's impossible for some ships to be objectively superior to other ones. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

I assume that you people would not think that a ship that fired 20rpm and killed everything in 1 hit and had epic armor and speed etc would be "100% up to the player". No, that's [edited]. It's an extreme example but it proves the principle. All balancing in the game is just a less severe version of what I just mentioned.

 

The fact is that the average damage and win/loss of ships can differ radically from other ships of the same tier when played by thousands of players. There will of course always be some fluctuation, but when one ship is doing nearly double the damage of the others of its tier for thousands of players then clearly some balance is required. The vast majority of players do indeed experience themselves finding certain ships much easier to do very high damage in or survive way more than that ship probably should for balance etc.

 

I agree that we should not rush to demanding nerfs/buffs all the time, and people need to learn to recognize their own weaknesses. However, in many cases ships and mechanics do need adjustments too. 

Agree with you here.

Adjustment do need to be made........but nowhere near as frequently or drastically as some of the posts around here would suggest.

 

At the end of the day, a player in a below average ship, who has worked to develop their skills over time, will stand a very good chance against one in a superior ship, who has not made that effort.

 

I consider myself to be average at best, and die fairly frequently....and it's usually due to doing something stupid.

But I am making the effort to improve myself...and it is reflecting in my stats

[centarina]

In a way DD  and torpedos get hated the  most because   the damage done is due to our own failure to evade.      If you get hit by Gunfire from long distance, you can blame it on aimbot or just better player or luck, but if you get hit by noobpedos,  it is our own dang fault.     and we hate that.      beyond that,  certain class takes more skill and that  also causes feel bad.       only real solution is dose of gitgud, but that is too hard for many    

[Taichunger]

The fact is that certain ships are OP. Just check the stats.

 

Take the Kiev for example. Players regularly complained it was OP. Poor players like myself had amazing games in it. The numbers said it had ridiculous win and damage figures, more than any T8 DD at one point. Both quantitative and qualitative data suggest that the ship was OP.

 

If you are going to argue against that, you have to reject the testimony of hundreds of experienced players, and reject even the simplest and clearest analysis of the stats.

 

Your advice is good, but bottom line is that you are arguing there is no difference between ships, only players. Of course that's nonsense.

 

[ColonelYumYum]

It's the ship, it's the RNG, and it's the player. I'm an average player (52% wins) so I've seen great teams and I've seen crap teams.

[IronWolfV]

BGrey,

 

It's not the ships as he stated. It's the player. I'm pants in anything other than a BB. (Yes I love my BBs). Just like WoT I like my heavies. It's not about the ship, but how the player handles said ship as you said. I've seen players take the "worst" tanks and dominate a map and have seen a player in WoWs do the same all because of his skill in a particular class of ship. 

 

Ships are fine the way they are. Players just need to learn the strong and weak points of each.

 

All I have to say is OBT Colorado.  Nuff said. That ship SCREAMED for a buff and it FINALLY got one and it's now competitive.

[centarina]

Even the "bad"  ships, there are people who perform well with it.   So skill can overcome some of the challenges. Heck, people hated Mutsuki and I actually wavered on whether to continue, but I found that I did fine.  Same with farragut and mahan.      I do agree though balance is a good thing.