What do you guys think of the built-in shell tracking?

[Chrifister]

Now I'm not talking about the aim-assist mods. I'm talking about the built-in auto-aim/shell tracking, whatever you want to call it. It's what guides the shells in the air to the ship you have targeted. This is most noticeable in two scenarios:

 

1. Two enemy ships at long range, side-on to you, and crossing your bow from opposite directions. Target the farthest ship and wait until they come together. Then lead and fire at the closest ship while still having the farther ship targeted. Watch your shells curve in the air towards the targeted ship. You'll land a little ways behind and just inside the ship you have targeted but it will be considerably behind and farther out than the ship you actually fired at.

 

2. While in a DD and in retreat from an enemy at long range, angle to one side a little bit, say 45 degrees off from the direction of the enemy. The enemy will lead your ship in that direction and fire at you. As soon as he fires, turn your ship to head straight in the other direction, perpendicular from the direction of the enemy. Watch the shells as they originally set out in the direction that would have hit you had you not turned but instead they curve in the air and follow you. They will usually land slightly behind you or may hit your stern.

 

I'll make a guess on how it's supposed to work. When you target a ship, imagine there's a large oval on your screen with the center being the optimum aiming point to hit dead center on the enemy ship. As long as you aim within this oval, your shells will be guided to the target no matter what evasive action they take. This has different effects depending on ship class and dispersion and it seems like the oval is wider than it is high. We'll use a CA as an example because of their low dispersion. Since a CAs dispersion is generally less than the length of most CAs, you can be a little ways from the center of this imaginary oval and your shot pattern will still overlap the enemy ship resulting in some hits. If you fire outside of this oval, your shells are not guided as much but will still land near your target. For a BB, their dispersion is so large (on most, NM not included) that the shell guidance is not as noticeable. Your shot pattern is still overlapping the enemy ship but but it's RNG that decides if any shells hit them.

 

What do you guys think of this? I don't like it. I think it favors CA fire because of their tight grouping and very low dispersion. It doesn't affect BB fire because of their large dispersion and doesn't affect DD fire because of the low number of turrets. Removing it would make the game considerably more difficult but you would actually be able to dodge incoming shells. I'm not sure of the effect this would have on balance. What was it added I wonder? Did it exist in alpha or beta? Maybe it makes the game more exciting to have shells landing close to you? It obviously makes it easier to hit targets. Was it too difficult without it? Is it to help new players?

[Wilbury]

I'm gonna have to see a replay before I can take this at face value.

[Scotty_SE]

I find it annoying as hell, but actually exploit in my Mogami from time to time. If I'm taking a beating I'll slide a bit behind a friendly ship that has a lot more health left (or a BB) knowing the enemy shells, while he may be aiming at me will likely fall short because their targeting system adjust for the shorter range ship. Actually been called out on this by experienced players, but it's a valid way to spread out the health pool as long as you aren't just screwing your team. I see veteran Cola' players do this *a lot*

[Raptor_alcor]

I have never seen this effect, sure your accuracy is improved if you target a chip and your guns are ranged for such thing but I have never seen such an arcing in effect, I WISH that was such at thing considering it would actually help me but from my experience, all it does is prevent your shells from smashing into islands if they fire high enough.

[Chrifister]

I find it annoying as hell, but actually exploit in my Mogami from time to time. If I'm taking a beating I'll slide a bit behind a friendly ship that has a lot more health left (or a BB) knowing the enemy shells, while he may be aiming at me will likely fall short because their targeting system adjust for the shorter range ship. Actually been called out on this by experienced players, but it's a valid way to spread out the health pool as long as you aren't just screwing your team. I see veteran Cola' players do this *a lot*

 

Never actually thought to do that on purpose. I'll retreat behind a friendly hoping the enemy starts shooting at him instead but now that you mention it, he would automatically target the closer ship.

 

I'm gonna have to see a replay before I can take this at face value.

 

I have never seen this effect, sure your accuracy is improved if you target a chip and your guns are ranged for such thing but I have never seen such an arcing in effect, I WISH that was such at thing considering it would actually help me but from my experience, all it does is prevent your shells from smashing into islands if they fire high enough.

 

It's very noticeable, especially in the first scenario I gave. There are other forum posts discussing it. The question is not whether it exists or not, but whether it should?

[Grevester]

Yeah when you forget to switch targets it can waste a salvo, but normally if you aim far enough away from your target and at a new one, the auto target will switch for you.

 

Without it, you would have to move your cursor with the ship rather than have the auto lock do it for you, and you still have to aim right or you will miss. better off with it.

[Raptor_alcor]

 

Never actually thought to do that on purpose. I'll retreat behind a friendly hoping the enemy starts shooting at him instead but now that you mention it, he would automatically target the closer ship.

 

 

 

It's very noticeable, especially in the first scenario I gave. There are other forum posts discussing it. The question is not whether it exists or not, but whether it should?

 

Considering in the second scenario I've been in and NEVER saw the shells curve toward me mid arc after making such an evasive maneuver I seriously question how much of a factor it really is. 

[Chrifister]

Yeah when you forget to switch targets it can waste a salvo, but normally if you aim far enough away from your target and at a new one, the auto target will switch for you.

 

Without it, you would have to move your cursor with the ship rather than have the auto lock do it for you, and you still have to aim right or you will miss. better off with it.

 

I think you're talking about the target lock that makes your view lock to and follow a target? That's fine and I like the way that works. What we're talking about is the shell guidance that alters the flight path of the shells in the air towards the ship you have targeted. This guidance system ensures shells always land near you, or on you if they aimed properly.

 

 If you have a DD with high enough maneuverability and you're being fired at from a CA at long range, it is possible to see the shells curve twice in the air in opposite directions. It's very noticeable sometimes that the incoming shells are actively homing in on your location. Most of the time, this only causes them to land near you without hitting you but It's very easy to see the trajectory they were originally on should have taken them kilometers from you. A far miss or a near miss doesn't matter much but how much of an effect does this guidance have on a player's aiming?

 

 

Considering in the second scenario I've been in and NEVER saw the shells curve toward me mid arc after making such an evasive maneuver I seriously question how much of a factor it really is. 

 

I'm surprised you don't notice it? Try targeting an enemy ship and firing at another enemy that you don't have targeted. If it's set up right, you will see the shells curve in the air towards the ship you have targeted. They will land nowhere near where you are actually aiming. Don't look at the ship you're firing at or else the targeting system will automatically target them. The longer the range the better.

 

I'll see if I can get some screenshots the next time I see a setup that would show the curve. If I remember during the heat of battle.

[Tedster_]

While I haven't seen the "curved shell paths", the range assist is real.  What it does is instead of aiming to your absolute range, it aims relative to the range of the ship you are locked on to.  It is what allows you to shoot over islands when your reticule is on the island.  They made it a lot less noticable than in the past around update 0.2.3 or 0.2.4.  Any alphas remember when everybody's aim felt "off" after that patch? That is why.

[UnseenSpectacle]

One thing I hate about the shell tracking is how it will FUBAR a shot in open water if it is at anything shorter or longer range than the targeted ship. So I just have to make sure I change targets properly. I could understand some extra dispersion, but not the entire shot becoming worse than my secondary gunners.

[Raptor_alcor]

 

I think you're talking about the target lock that makes your view lock to and follow a target? That's fine and I like the way that works. What we're talking about is the shell guidance that alters the flight path of the shells in the air towards the ship you have targeted. This guidance system ensures shells always land near you, or on you if they aimed properly.

 

 If you have a DD with high enough maneuverability and you're being fired at from a CA at long range, it is possible to see the shells curve twice in the air in opposite directions. It's very noticeable sometimes that the incoming shells are actively homing in on your location. Most of the time, this only causes them to land near you without hitting you but It's very easy to see the trajectory they were originally on should have taken them kilometers from you. A far miss or a near miss doesn't matter much but how much of an effect does this guidance have on a player's aiming?

 

 

I'm surprised you don't notice it? Try targeting an enemy ship and firing at another enemy that you don't have targeted. If it's set up right, you will see the shells curve in the air towards the ship you have targeted. They will land nowhere near where you are actually aiming. Don't look at the ship you're firing at or else the targeting system will automatically target them. The longer the range the better.

 

I'll see if I can get some screenshots the next time I see a setup that would show the curve. If I remember during the heat of battle.

 

The shells do not curve, I'm going to stop beating arround the bush, all it does is give you a range solution on the enemy as I stated before, it does not make it easier to actually get a hit. 

[Chrifister]

 

The shells do not curve, I'm going to stop beating arround the bush, all it does is give you a range solution on the enemy as I stated before, it does not make it easier to actually get a hit. 

 

If you ever remember, try to get in the same situation as the first scenario I gave. It's pretty unbelievable watching your shells curve towards the targeted ship. It's hard explaining, maybe I'll do up an image in paint to clarify.

[Chrifister]

I made a diagram with my awesome paint skills. Both enemy ships are CAs sailing in opposite directions. You have the far ship targeted but lead and fire at the nearer ship. The shells still curve towards the targeted ship as much as they can. Since your aim is so far away from the targeted ship, the guidance only brings the shells so far in an attempt to have them land near the targeted ship. I've seen this multiple times and it's easy to replicate if you notice enemy ships setting up like this. Easiest way is to use a BB with very long range artillery and make sure the enemies are at extremely long range.

 

[csp0811]

Let's use a stationary island as reference. If you start at the island and go west at 30 kph, then any shells you fire directly north or south will also have have a 30 kph west velocity vector. If you use a moving target as a reference, then you have the combination of velocity of ship travel and the muzzle velocity vector (by definition velocity has speed and direction, direction being where your guns are pointed). This is kind of tedious to calculate but easy to grasp if you can remember to include the direction and speed of the ships when guessing where shells will land. The game will handle all of the calculations (which is why shells hit where you aim on an island despite sailing past it), but it can result in counterintuitive results if your reference frame is moving (locked in). Try aiming without locking at anyone and watch the shells land as expected.

[Chrifister]

Let's use a stationary island as reference. If you start at the island and go west at 30 kph, then any shells you fire directly north or south will also have have a 30 kph west velocity vector. If you use a moving target as a reference, then you have the combination of velocity of ship travel and the muzzle velocity vector (by definition velocity has speed and direction, direction being where your guns are pointed). This is kind of tedious to calculate but easy to grasp if you can remember to include the direction and speed of the ships when guessing where shells will land. The game will handle all of the calculations (which is why shells hit where you aim on an island despite sailing past it), but it can result in counterintuitive results if your reference frame is moving (locked in). Try aiming without locking at anyone and watch the shells land as expected.

 

I had thought of that originally and it is still a possibility. It does cause confusion when trying to judge the flight path of shells. All of your reference points are moving.

 

I wish I had a replay of the last time it happened. Now without thinking, I will target the ship I want to fire at before firing. You basically have to remind yourself to target the wrong ship and waste a salvo.

[Kenjister]

Tedster pretty much summed it up. Shells won't be guided to the target, but your range will be automatically adjusted to hit the ship you're locked on to.

 

What you see as horizontal curving is probably from the camera moving along with the "wrong" target as opposed to what you're used to.

 

[Wilbury]

 

 

This diagram I can say is inaccurate, even simply wrong. I shoot targets other than the locked one in nearly every game (often in exactly the above situation) and have never seen anything like what is depicted here. 

[capncrunch21]

I had to laugh at this mechanic.

 

It was so obvious after I got hit close-in by a number of torps that brought my ship to an immediate dead stop as I blew up. At the same time shells that were arcing over me to where I would have been (had my ship continued to move) suddenly shot straight down into the burning wreckage that was my ship.

 

RNG must have determined I WAS going to be hit - no matter what.

 

lol!

 

I swear some of the hidden mechanics in this game are just...

 

[Raptor_alcor]

 

This diagram I can say is inaccurate, even simply wrong. I shoot targets other than the locked one in nearly every game (often in exactly the above situation) and have never seen anything like what is depicted here. 

 

Agreed with this, I have never ONCE seen this situation in my time combined between CBT and OBT and my many games in co-op as well disprove it but hey, believe in your tinhat theories OP. 

[SourHammer]

I made a diagram with my awesome paint skills. Both enemy ships are CAs sailing in opposite directions. You have the far ship targeted but lead and fire at the nearer ship. The shells still curve towards the targeted ship as much as they can. Since your aim is so far away from the targeted ship, the guidance only brings the shells so far in an attempt to have them land near the targeted ship. I've seen this multiple times and it's easy to replicate if you notice enemy ships setting up like this. Easiest way is to use a BB with very long range artillery and make sure the enemies are at extremely long range.

 

 

Your shells are not curving,  it just looks like it because your ship is moving.

[Zyu]

About the graphic - I've never experienced that. Well I've never noticed it at least.

What screws me all the time is the auto-targeting. I have a perfect shot lined up and just as I am about to fire a "nearer" or different ship gets selected. Frustrating as hell.

[Spagz]

I have never seen this effect, sure your accuracy is improved if you target a chip and your guns are ranged for such thing but I have never seen such an arcing in effect, I WISH that was such at thing considering it would actually help me but from my experience, all it does is prevent your shells from smashing into islands if they fire high enough.

 

Speaking of which, Ive noticed ever since 5.2.0 went live that shells have a much harder time flying over land masses. Seems that now anytime the gun marker even remotely touches land, the shells wont arc in its natural pattern, instead giving a flatter trajectory, fall short and fly right into said land mass. Example, on Hot Spot yesterday, enemy Monty was going West around the group of Islands at A cap point, presented a beautiful broadside. Had him target locked and fired off a salvo just before he went behind island. Now typically, the 16" Mark 7's have plenty of arc to streak OVER the lowest elevation portion of that island, but instead of arcing over, the shells just went into a flat path and I rekt that damn Island. Again later in my Cleveland (with notoriously high shell Arcs) an enemy cruiser was pilfering around an Island, but still spotted. Im in Cleve and hes hiding behind a small island (even most of his superstructure and masts were still visable)....no problems...watch this! Well, I'll be damned if the shells simply refused to arc over the Island. I guess they changed the algorithms for shell tracking in the last big patch. Previously it was hit or miss, sometimes the shells would impact the islands, often they'd properly arc for the correct range and hit the target behind the island if they were far enough out from it.  Now, not so much. They just wont arc over like they used to.

 

As far as OP's situation. I have never once observed either by firing at, or getting fired at, shells actually curving in mid flight. Never. What I have observed however, when two ships pass each other and you have the ship further out targeted, with proper lead..etc, and fire off the salvo the shells seem to split the difference between the two ships and fall somewhere in between. Over and behind the inner ship and short of and behind the outter targeted ship. Seen that happen a lot. But never seen the shell "curve" in mid flight.

[WhatIsTheOdds]

It is a horrible mechanic and it never should have been implemented. I remember the exact time in beta when they added this. They claimed it was "too hard" for newer players to aim at the hull of ship but it only made my aim worse because I could no longer aim exactly where I wanted, so the game stopped taking into account where in the water you wanted the shells to go so instead of telling players to realize that they are actually aiming to hit at a spot in the water the game does the aiming calculation for them. Apparently it also thinks that players want to always fire on mountains and targets that get locked on to just as you fire. Please let us turn this feature off if not remove it altogether, you don't need auto-aim in a slow paced game and honestly I don't think anybody actually has problems aiming that doesn't involve target leading.

[Wilbury]

It is a horrible mechanic and it never should have been implemented. I remember the exact time in beta when they added this. They claimed it was "too hard" for newer players to aim at the hull of ship but it only made my aim worse because I could no longer aim exactly where I wanted, so the game stopped taking into account where in the water you wanted the shells to go so instead of telling players to realize that they are actually aiming to hit at a spot in the water the game does the aiming calculation for them. Apparently it also thinks that players want to always fire on mountains and targets that get locked on to just as you fire. Please let us turn this feature off if not remove it altogether, you don't need auto-aim in a slow paced game and honestly I don't think anybody actually has problems aiming that doesn't involve target leading.

 

Is there documentation still sitting around somewhere? I'd like to know if I've somehow been missing this behavior every time it ever happens or if it's maybe not a thing. 

[Prail47t]

This mechanic certainly exists. I experience it now and again when ships cross paths and another ship you weren't principally targeting becomes the new 'focus' target on your hud.

 

Observe as you move your targeting around on different ships and how the white reticle auto-targets ships. It will always focus on the closer ship. You can control which ship is targeted by hovering over your target and pressing x.

 

If you have two ships close to each other, one of them just a few clicks further back, highlight him with x, then try to accurately hit the closer ship by aiming properly. You will see that your shells land somewhere in the middle between the two ships because the game compensates for distance on the ship that is targeted.

 

It does not however change the arc or aim of the shells in any way. It's just a noob friendly aid that helps compensate for hitting your intended target when several ships are close together.