Match Making Reveled

[anonym_9qa81sg1ET3c]

I'd like to post a part of WarGamings patent on the match making system that would be most relevant to some people in here. I know we have all wondered why sometimes we just get pounded over and over again and why most win loss ratios stay around the 50% mark. Its not random luck and its not just ship tiers alone. That's just part of the magic. Premium vehicles are indeed pay to win but in a way that isn't obvious to the customer.

 

The patent can be read in its entirety here http://www.google.com/patents/US8425330

 

"According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range. Thus, when a player has been repeatedly put into too many difficult battles, the balancing is done in favor of easier battle sessions, thereby encouraging the player by providing an easier game environment. Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games. A first possible algorithm is to divide the permissible battle levels evenly across a range from zero (0) to two (2), and place the vehicle into the battle level corresponding to the win/loss ratio, where any ratio greater than two (2) automatically results in the vehicle being placed in the highest possible battle level. Another possible algorithm is to increase the battle level by one (within the permissible range) for a vehicle each time a player wins a battle with that vehicle, and decrease the battle level by one (within the permissible range) each time a player loses a battle with that vehicle. If the battle level is already at the upper end of the range and the player wins the battle, the battle level may remain constant. Similarly, if the battle level is already at the lower end of the range and the player loses the battle, the battle level may remain constant."

 

"Premium vehicles typically have advanced capabilities compared to other vehicles of similar tiers, and may be allowed only into a lower range of battle levels than standard vehicles of a similar tier level, thereby encouraging users to obtain premium vehicles. For example, in one embedment, Tier 8 standard Heavy vehicles are allowed in battle levels from 9 to 12, while Tier 8 Heavy premium vehicles get into levels 9-10 and 9-11, thereby avoiding battle level 12. As a result, players are more likely to feel superior, and have a better chance of success in game using premium vehicles because they will never play against as difficult opponents as standard vehicles may face."

[bad_arcade_kitty]

hahaha, a good find

 

what people like to do to avoid the proper skill based mm

[shootieboats]

OH GOOD. THIS THREAD AGAIN.

 

idiots.

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

I'd like to post a part of WarGamings patent on the match making system that would be most relevant to some people in here. I know we have all wondered why sometimes we just get pounded over and over again and why most win loss ratios stay around the 50% mark. Its not random luck and its not just ship tiers alone. That's just part of the magic. Premium vehicles are indeed pay to win but in a way that isn't obvious to the customer.

 

The entire patent can be read in its entirety here http://www.google.com/patents/US8425330

 

"According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range. Thus, when a player has been repeatedly put into too many difficult battles, the balancing is done in favor of easier battle sessions, thereby encouraging the player by providing an easier game environment. Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games. A first possible algorithm is to divide the permissible battle levels evenly across a range from zero (0) to two (2), and place the vehicle into the battle level corresponding to the win/loss ratio, where any ratio greater than two (2) automatically results in the vehicle being placed in the highest possible battle level. Another possible algorithm is to increase the battle level by one (within the permissible range) for a vehicle each time a player wins a battle with that vehicle, and decrease the battle level by one (within the permissible range) each time a player loses a battle with that vehicle. If the battle level is already at the upper end of the range and the player wins the battle, the battle level may remain constant. Similarly, if the battle level is already at the lower end of the range and the player loses the battle, the battle level may remain constant."

 

"Premium vehicles typically have advanced capabilities compared to other vehicles of similar tiers, and may be allowed only into a lower range of battle levels than standard vehicles of a similar tier level, thereby encouraging users to obtain premium vehicles. For example, in one embedment, Tier 8 standard Heavy vehicles are allowed in battle levels from 9 to 12, while Tier 8 Heavy premium vehicles get into levels 9-10 and 9-11, thereby avoiding battle level 12. As a result, players are more likely to feel superior, and have a better chance of success in game using premium vehicles because they will never play against as difficult opponents as standard vehicles may face."

Ishizuki and maybe one, two other ships have special matchmaking. We can wear tinfoil hats all day long, but if you look around the forums you will see plenty of peoploe with 60-65% WR's. They do not clobber you back to 50%. I have no proof, but I have faith. No matter what, each player is just 1/12th of the team so it's hard to completely change the outcome. If you play better than your "opposite" or the "average" then you will see a small WR increase. If you play very well you will see alot. No one will have a 100% WR, and few will have below 40. 

[thegamefilmguruman]

I recall seeing another thread on this a few months back.  Wargaming hasn't implimented that patent due to complaining as far as I'm aware (and this was discussed in the other thread). 

 

Here's the other thread for more reading:

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/59433-why-you-shouldnt-trust-wg-or-give-them-a-dime-read-this/page__p__1452507__hl__+wargaming%20+patent#entry1452507

OH GOOD. THIS THREAD AGAIN.

 

idiots.

 

[BelgaraththeSorcerer]

Hmmmm, I remember this being discussed a while ago and It has been confirmed that they don't use the patented method and they just have it there in case they want to use it eventually.... MM right now is Random and balanced based on the tiers of the pool of players who were in the queue at the time

[pmgaudio]

hahaha, a good find

 

what people like to do to avoid the proper skill based mm

[pmgaudio]

[anonym_9qa81sg1ET3c]

Hmmmm, I remember this being discussed a while ago and It has been confirmed that they don't use the patented method and they just have it there in case they want to use it eventually.... MM right now is Random and balanced based on the tiers of the pool of players who were in the queue at the time

 

There seems to be no statement supporting this that I can find. Do you have the link where Wargaming says they dont use the method for matchmaking that they own? I do find other people repeating what you are saying.

[BKKnightRider]

Hmmmm, I remember this being discussed a while ago and It has been confirmed that they don't use the patented method and they just have it there in case they want to use it eventually.... MM right now is Random and balanced based on the tiers of the pool of players who were in the queue at the time

 

I don't buy it.  It is far too much of a coincidence that EVERY time I get my win rate up to 51%-52% I get stuck with 5-8 terrible teams in a row.

Another thing that is quite obvious is that the MM makes no consistent effort to balance classes.  Far too often I have seen matches where every ship of one class on one team is superior to the same class on the other team.  What is so fakking hard about programing an algorithm that ranks the number of ships in a class by tier, counts them, and then puts evenly distributes them too the teams?  In other words, what is so frakking hard about alternating or dividing by two?  So, for example, when the MM puts all of the T7 ships of one class on one team but all the T6 ships of the same class on the other team the MM is obviously not making any effort to balance the class.

[CPT_Nelson]

 

''Irrelavent'' 

[anonym_9qa81sg1ET3c]

So weird that nobody in this thread can get into the 60% win rate. All that is asking to win 1.1 games for every loss. Even dngrcnnn who is the best player in the thread is increasing in all his stats but somehow his win rate is getting worse. Its just so strange that everyone's skill somehow causes them to gravitate toward 1 win and 1 loss. Where is mah sarcasm tags

 

 

                        WIN RATE
MegaPutin                             48.16 %
bad_arcade_kitty                    51.78 %
dngrcnnn                                56.85 %
Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai  53.81 %
thegamefilmguruman             55.77 %
pmgaudio                               51.02 %
BKKnightRider                        51.92 %
CPT_Nelson                           53.58 %

[intertex]

 

I don't buy it.  It is far too much of a coincidence that EVERY time I get my win rate up to 51%-52% I get stuck with 5-8 terrible teams in a row.

Another thing that is quite obvious is that the MM makes no consistent effort to balance classes.  Far too often I have seen matches where every ship of one class on one team is superior to the same class on the other team.  What is so fakking hard about programing an algorithm that ranks the number of ships in a class by tier, counts them, and then puts evenly distributes them too the teams?  In other words, what is so frakking hard about alternating or dividing by two?  So, for example, when the MM puts all of the T7 ships of one class on one team but all the T6 ships of the same class on the other team the MM is obviously not making any effort to balance the class.

Sure the mm personally hate you so she don't want you to get higher WR.

Oh wait then how do people archive 60% WR or even 70%? Must be hacking, cheating, or they bribe MM into doing favor to them!  

 

 

[InvalidKey]

Even if all of this is true, what makes you think this is some grand conspiracy?  The game tries to make sure there is a balance of people doing well and people doing not as well in every match.

 

If all of the people doing well were matched together, it would drive down win rates to 50%.  If all of the people not doing well were matched together, they'd come up to 50%.  

 

The notion that premium ships can (but don't always) get preferred match making isn't new.  It's a benefit of the premium ship, and yet not all have it.

 

I need to buy stock in aluminum companies i swear.  The amount of tin foil on this forum is real.

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

So weird that nobody in this thread can get into the 60% win rate. All that is asking to win 1.1 games for every loss. Even dngrcnnn who is the best player in the thread is increasing in all his stats but somehow his win rate is getting worse. 

 

 

                        WIN RATE
MegaPutin                             48.16 %
bad_arcade_kitty                    51.78 %
dngrcnnn                                56.85 %
Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai  53.81 %
thegamefilmguruman             55.77 %
pmgaudio                               51.02 %
BKKnightRider                        51.92 %
CPT_Nelson                           53.58 %

That's because the power of odds say we will fall NEAR 50% in a complete vacuum where every match is random. It isn't as personal skill sways it somewhat. On a sidenote, I am very happy to rank number four on that list thought I would be a lot lower. I haven't looked, but I bet dng does more damage than either of us and/or averages more exp.

[pmgaudio]

That's because the power of odds say we will fall NEAR 50% in a complete vacuum where every match is random. It isn't as personal skill sways it somewhat. On a sidenote, I am very happy to rank number four on that list thought I would be a lot lower. I haven't looked, but I bet dng does more damage than either of us and/or averages more exp.

 

not sure that damage or XP has anything to do with WR, but it helps the team for sure have a better chance at winning... Mine used to be 55 or so (about two months and 500 games ago LOL)... I started getting way to aggressive with some of the higher tier ships I thought I could get more aggressive with !! lol

[bad_arcade_kitty]

grr, i blocked my stats not to be checked without permission ><

[pmgaudio]

Even if all of this is true, what makes you think this is some grand conspiracy?  The game tries to make sure there is a balance of people doing well and people doing not as well in every match.

 

If all of the people doing well were matched together, it would drive down win rates to 50%.  If all of the people not doing well were matched together, they'd come up to 50%.  

 

The notion that premium ships can (but don't always) get preferred match making isn't new.  It's a benefit of the premium ship, and yet not all have it.

 

I need to buy stock in aluminum companies i swear.  The amount of tin foil on this forum is real.

[pmgaudio]

grr, i blocked my stats not to be checked without permission ><

 

sorry you cannot do that and WE DONT NEED YOUR EFFING PERMISSION TO CHECK A PUBLIC SITE WITH GAME INFO ON IT REGARDING YOUR STATS>>> get over yourself

[thegamefilmguruman]

So weird that nobody in this thread can get into the 60% win rate. All that is asking to win 1.1 games for every loss. Even dngrcnnn who is the best player in the thread is increasing in all his stats but somehow his win rate is getting worse. Its just so strange that everyone's skill somehow causes them to gravitate toward 1 win and 1 loss. Where is mah sarcasm tags

 

 

                        WIN RATE
MegaPutin                             48.16 %
bad_arcade_kitty                    51.78 %
dngrcnnn                                56.85 %
Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai  53.81 %
thegamefilmguruman             55.77 %
pmgaudio                               51.02 %
BKKnightRider                        51.92 %
CPT_Nelson                           53.58 %

 

I should point out that my older games are dragging my winrate down.  If you look at the last few months (65 days)...

http://warships.today/player/1014632289/na/thegamefilmguruman

64.5% WR

That and my ranked record shows 62.5% the last season...

 

So yes, at least a few of us do have a 60%+ winrate.

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

 

I should point out that my older games are dragging my winrate down.  If you look at the last few months (65 days)...

http://warships.today/player/1014632289/na/thegamefilmguruman

64.5% WR

That and my ranked record shows 62.5% the last season...

 

So yes, at least a few of us do have a 60%+ winrate.

Oiu good point. Look at my sig. Last 80 or so battles have been 60+. Warships stats is weird though. Did 20idh today and they were thrown in 60 days. My WR was like 54-57 the first hundred battles. Then tanked to around 49. For the last 300 it's been a slow but noticeable rise.

[1nv4d3rZ1m]

So weird that nobody in this thread can get into the 60% win rate. All that is asking to win 1.1 games for every loss. Even dngrcnnn who is the best player in the thread is increasing in all his stats but somehow his win rate is getting worse. Its just so strange that everyone's skill somehow causes them to gravitate toward 1 win and 1 loss. Where is mah sarcasm tags

 

 

                        WIN RATE
MegaPutin                             48.16 %
bad_arcade_kitty                    51.78 %
dngrcnnn                                56.85 %
Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai  53.81 %
thegamefilmguruman             55.77 %
pmgaudio                               51.02 %
BKKnightRider                        51.92 %
CPT_Nelson                           53.58 %

 

Nobody above 60% eh?

 

You do realize this patent pops up every couple of months on the WOT forum and it has been pretty well debunked. WG staff have even stated there that this patent is not being used. 

[BKKnightRider]

Sure the mm personally hate you so she don't want you to get higher WR.

Oh wait then how do people archive 60% WR or even 70%? Must be hacking, cheating, or they bribe MM into doing favor to them!  

 

 

 

​Simple, they are good enough to carry the poor teams they get stuck on more often than I can carry the poor teams I get stuck on.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

Wargaming (specifically SerB) also holds the patent for the Entwicklung E-50 Standardpanzer Auf M.  That doesn`t mean they`re actively making full use of it.  Having a patent does not automatically mean it`s being used.  And if you spent even 3 minutes on a stats board or 5 minutes looking for a game to be matched up, you`d see for yourself that it`s actively not being used.

 

Some examples: 

• http://warshipstats.com/na/player/DeprivedPickle
• http://warshipstats.com/na/player/1nv4d3rZ1m
• http://warshipstats.com/na/player/iChase 
• http://warshipstats.com/na/player/starblazer_1
• http://warshipstats.com/na/player/Nicholas45
• http://warshipstats.com/na/player/gondor1500

 

If you actually read the patent, you`ll see how complicated it is for the Matchmaker to manage to arrange a method for normalizing someone`s winrate.  It requires, primarily, a large number of people present within a queue to effectively do so.  Without it, the delays needed to arrange the perfect match are darn well near impossible and work contrary to the algorithm`s goal.  That players get a match at just about any tier without enormous delays shows factually that it`s not in play.  In addition, examples like the players above show that even if it was in place, it`s doing a terrible job at it. 

 

You are entirely, 100%, completely and unequivocally responsible for your own winrate.  Full stop.  There are no excuses for bad teams, bad luck, etc.  Everyone and anyone can encounter these same issues.  On a mathematical comparison, these all cancel out when compared across populations.  This leaves only one factor remaining:  Your contribution to the match.  If it`s not up to snuff, you lose more, simply put.

 

 

[anonym_9qa81sg1ET3c]

 

I should point out that my older games are dragging my winrate down.  If you look at the last few months (65 days)...

http://warships.today/player/1014632289/na/thegamefilmguruman

64.5% WR

That and my ranked record shows 62.5% the last season...

 

So yes, at least a few of us do have a 60%+ winrate.

 

Yes we have all had high win rates for periods of time. So what happened then? Did you all the sudden get bad?

Also you were clubbing in low rank sub tier 5 most of the time. When you were not you were enjoying the preferred matchmaking of a premium ship Murmansk that per the patent allows you to club even more. I will admit I dont doubt its possible to reach 60% but you will not say there for very long unless you close the game and dont play after reaching.