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Ariecho

November 13 - Focus: IJN Hosho

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General

 

The gang has experienced a little communication problem today, which led to us not releasing our daily thread in time. All credit for this thread should go to NGTM_1R, who wrote it.  Hold on to your +1, please!!!

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Allies:

So today, between 1918 and 1944,the Allies laid down 27 ships, with the standouts being a rare appearance from the Netherlands via minesweeper Abraham van der Hulst, the French have light cruiser Gloire, and two escort carriers from the UK.

Between 1901 and 1944 they launched 36 ships, with the most interesting thing probably being the fact that a US frigate appeared on the list.

And between 1919 and 1944, 41 Allied ships were commissioned. The light cruiser HMS Penelope is the only thing that really grabs the eye, commissioned in 1936.

And, well, we've got the Friday the 13th battle for Guadalcanal losses today, including USS Juneau, from 1942, plus HMS Ark Royal back in 1941.

Italy got the corvette Folaga, launched today in 1942.

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And the Axis have...

Nothing laid down.

Launched: Carrier Hosho, 1921.

Commissioned: Protected cruiser Prinzess Wilhelm, for Germany, 1889.

Sunk: Heavy cruiser Kinugasa, 1942, and light cruiser Kiso, in 1944.

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1921

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Hosho was the first ship commissioned and designed from the keel up as an aircraft carrier. (HMS Hermes was laid down earlier but completed later.) She was originally planned to be a seaplane carrier with a forward flying off deck, but the Royal Navy's experiments showed the desirability of being able to land aircraft, so a landing deck appeared on the design; then the British experience with HMS Furious and HMS Argus showed the need for a smooth, unobstructed deck, so the superstructure was moved to one side and the three funnels were mounted offset as well, and set up to swivel flat when Hosho was conducting flight ops. Based on RN experience her speed was reduced to 25 knots.

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Hosho as completed.

Posted Image

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Novel features included the first attempt at a carrier landing aide via lights and mirrors on the flight deck sides, and the fact that Hosho had two separate hangers. Not hanger decks, but physically separated hangers, one forward and only a single story high intended to house nine small aircraft like fighters, and one aft that was two stories high with room for six larger aircraft, such as torpedo bombers. Over a dozen different methods of recovering aircraft were tested before settling on the longitudinal wire system that has become the standard method for anybody with an aircraft carrier. This points to Hosho's primary value: not as a warship, but an experimental platform.

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Hosho after her first refit.

Posted Image

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Hosho was launched on the 13th of November 1921, but her commissioning was delayed until December of the next year as a result of repeated design changes. (Much like her competitor for the “first” title, HMS Hermes.) She commissioned early, and in no fit state for operating aircraft, and did not begin landing trials until February of 1923. In 1924 her island was sheered off at the request of experienced aircrews, while in 1925 she was fitted with a crash barrier made of netting, the first of its kind. In 1930, she tested several more types of arresting gear. The lessons learned here had great influence on the designs of future IJN carrier designs like Akagi and Kaga.

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Flight ops during the Shanghai Incident from Hosho's deck. (Anybody who can identify the aircraft, please speak up!)

Posted Image

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She fought in the Shanghai Incident, where she was a participant in the first aerial combat the IJN participated in, but no kills were scored there and that honor went to Kaga. Hosho was extremely active, but this had more to do with the small size of her air group than anything else: what might take a fraction of the air group from Kaga or even Ryujo required a maximum-effort strike from Hosho. In 1935 the Combined Fleet Maneuvers for that year involved the Fourth Fleet, of which Hosho was a part. The fleet ventured into a typhoon on the 23rd of September. Damage to Hosho, as to many other ships, was extensive; the forward flight deck collapsed and the stack rotation mechanisms broke. Repairs required cutting the collapsed flight deck away. An extensive refit increased the resilience and number of supports, fixed the stacks in the down position and cut them down, and increased beam to improve stability. Then it was back to China for the Sino-Japanese War, in conjunction with Ryujo. She transferred her operational aircraft to Ryujo and left the theater the next month for modernization, mainly enlarging her elevators.

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Hosho after her final refit, with extended flight deck.

Posted Image

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Studies in December of 1940 proved Hosho could not successfully operate the new generation of Japanese carrier aircraft like the A6M, D3A, and B5N. She was simply too short and small to provide an adequate takeoff run or carry any significant number of them, and the steam catapult was unknown on Japanese carriers. She was tasked with training duties and, in the event of a particularly serious battle, providing limited ASW air cover and CAP to the battle line of Main Body. Hosho served in this roll briefly in December, then again during the Battle of Midway; it was her aircraft that took the famous pictures of Hiryu burning near sunset. On return from Midway she entered full-time training service, remaining in the Inland Sea. A brief refit in 1944 extended her flight deck to allow her to serve training duties to newer aircraft like the B6N and D4Y, but this also disallowed her from going to sea in bad weather as she was rendered unstable by the extra weight. She was damaged while training near Yamato in March 1945, taking three bomb hits, but aside from flight deck damage and six crew killed, she was not seriously hurt. The Kure raid in July damaged her slightly again, and she was quickly repaired. Nothing further happened before the war ended.

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Hosho actually had a lively post-war career as a repatriation transport to recover Japanese servicemembers and civilians left overseas at the end of the war; she made 9 trips and carried approximately 40,000 Japanese home before being sent to the scrapyards in August of 1946.

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Hosho's forecastle, from the front of the hanger; this picture provides a vivid illustration of just how small the ship was, smaller even than most of the US escort carriers with their six-foot-wide islands.

Posted Image

Dimensions

Length: 552 feet

Width: 59 feet

Draft: 20 feet 3 inches

Displacement: 7470 tons

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Weapons

4x 14cm/50 3rd Year Type guns (5.5”)

2x 8cm/30 3rd Year Type guns (actual diameter 7.62cm, or 3”)

Engines

8 Kampon Ro Go boilers, 2 Parsons steam turbines, 2 shafts

30000 SHP

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Performance

25 knots

8680 nautical miles at 12 knots

Crew

512

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Aircraft

15

Edited by Ariecho
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Please save your +1 for when NGTM logs on.  He's the one who wrote it.
Edited by Ariecho

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View PostAriecho, on 14 November 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

General

Flight ops during the Shanghai Incident from Hosho's deck. (Anybody who can identify the aircraft, please speak up!)



Posted Image


The picture, from what I could find, was taken in 1932.  This eliminates the 1MF, as they were retired in 1930.  The landing gear also seems to eliminate the A1N who replaced them (the tail is also totally different).  My guess would be the Misubishi B2M who was also introduced in 1932.  

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If the picture was really taken in 1932, it's the only aicraft that seems to fit.

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It's a shame the Langley is likely going to end up a tier 3.  I'd thought her and Hosho would be on even terms.

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I remember this little CV from NF  :popcorn:

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View PostColdt, on 14 November 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

It's a shame the Langley is likely going to end up a tier 3.  I'd thought her and Hosho would be on even terms.

I kind of doubt it. Langley has 36 aircraft to Hosho's 15, and is a good 3000 tons more displacement, 30 feet longer, 15ish feet wider. The only thing Hosho has going for it stand-up is the fact it has slightly more powerful guns and ten knots more speed, but with a better than two-to-one aircraft advantage neither of those probably matters. Langley is a much more powerful ship.
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View PostNGTM_1R, on 14 November 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

I kind of doubt it. Langley has 36 aircraft to Hosho's 15, and is a good 3000 tons more displacement, 30 feet longer, 15ish feet wider. The only thing Hosho has going for it stand-up is the fact it has slightly more powerful guns and ten knots more speed, but with a better than two-to-one aircraft advantage neither of those probably matters. Langley is a much more powerful ship.

On paper, sure.  However, Hosho had multiple elevators, front and rear, which spead up launch and recovery, while Langley had one central elevator.  Hosho is also a good 10 knots faster.

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It's kinda sad that Japan's first and weakest carrier Hosho was the only one to survive the war. Whilst all the others who were stronger and built from lessons learned from her perished.

If ships had a soul I bet she'd be crying for all her lost daughters.

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View PostSuper_Dreadnought, on 14 November 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

It's kinda sad that Japan's first and weakest carrier Hosho was the only one to survive the war. Whilst all the others who were stronger and built from lessons learned from her perished.
If ships had a soul I bet she'd be crying for all her lost daughters.
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Well, there was Katsuragi as well, but with two sets of Kagero machinery rather than even cruiser-type propulsion as intended how useful she would have actually been is an open question.
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View PostColdt, on 14 November 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

On paper, sure. However, Hosho had multiple elevators, front and rear, which spead up launch and recovery, while Langley had one central elevator. Hosho is also a good 10 knots faster.
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Which in turn is nullified by the US habit of using deck parks to have the aircraft on-hand for easier launch, and the fact that Langley's longer deck and steam catapult meant she could have operated significantly heavier, and hence more modern, aircraft. The Japanese forever had problems with their lack of catapults, and it really hindered their operation of torpedo aircraft. A fully loaded B5N simply couldn't take off from any of their carriers; if it was carrying a torpedo, the outboard wing fuel tanks had to be empty or the takeoff run was too long.

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View PostColdt, on 14 November 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

It's a shame the Langley is likely going to end up a tier 3. I'd thought her and Hosho would be on even terms.

View PostNGTM_1R, on 14 November 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

I kind of doubt it. Langley has 36 aircraft to Hosho's 15, and is a good 3000 tons more displacement, 30 feet longer, 15ish feet wider. The only thing Hosho has going for it stand-up is the fact it has slightly more powerful guns and ten knots more speed, but with a better than two-to-one aircraft advantage neither of those probably matters. Langley is a much more powerful ship.

And as the OP said, the Hosho could not operate newer aircraft like the A6M, D3A or B5N. That's another reason why Hosho will probably have a lower tier than Langley.

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View PostSuper_Dreadnought, on 14 November 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

It's kinda sad that Japan's first and weakest carrier Hosho was the only one to survive the war. Whilst all the others who were stronger and built from lessons learned from her perished.If ships had a soul I bet she'd be crying for all her lost daughters.
Don't forget that the Hiyo-class carrier Junyo survived the war too, although she was damaged and was still under repair by the time Japan surrendered.

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General

Flight ops during the Shanghai Incident from Hosho's deck. (Anybody who can identify the aircraft, please speak up!)

 

Hosho_Shanghai_zpsc89b5e41.jpg

 

 

The picture, from what I could find, was taken in 1932. This eliminates the 1MF, as they were retired in 1930. The landing gear also seems to eliminate the A1N who replaced them (the tail is also totally different). My guess would be the Misubishi B2M who was also introduced in 1932.

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If the picture was really taken in 1932, it's the only aicraft that seems to fit.

 

It seems to be the 1MF as the tail wing seems tot fit exactly. It could be a training aircraft?

 

 

 

1mf2.jpg

1mf4.jpg

 

 

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It seems to be the 1MF as the tail wing seems tot fit exactly. It could be a training aircraft?

 

 

 

1mf2.jpg

1mf4.jpg

 

 

It can't be the 1MF if the picture was taken in 1932.  The 1MF was retired in 1930.

 

It can however be the B2M

Mitsubishi_B2M.jpg

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It can't be the 1MF if the picture was taken in 1932.  The 1MF was retired in 1930.

 

It can however be the B2M

Mitsubishi_B2M.jpg

 

 

It looks like the wingspan is too long to fit the aircraft in the photo. Plus I'm no expert on aircraft so I don't know about this however, the B2M's wheel stands arent connected? 

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I'm not sure (won't make things out of my [edited]), so it's just my best guess.  However, as stated before, it cannot be the 1MF if the date (1932) is correct.

 

Good point about the wheels, though!

Edited by Ariecho

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