How Many Hits Should it Take?

[TurboT]

Decided to move things away from anime girls and back to general game play discussion.  

 

I had a Ranked Battle today where in my Mogami I intercepted a Kiev who was trying to annihilate my poor team mate, in his Fubuki. 

 

I saw the mean Kiev coming straight for our isolated IJN Sneak Attacker, and I didn't want to lose him at that point in the battle. (A late game invisy DD is very handy to have alive in Ranked I find).  I set my sights on Mr. Mini Gunboat, and unleashed Mogami 155 hell on him, my first salvo connected well and I think 7 shells hit the evil bugger, setting him on fire and knocking out his engine (I thought).  He noticed me then, his tunnel vision now removed from our helpless Fubuki.  He popped smoke and went dark for a few.   

 

There was an island in my way at this point, so I continued around the island and activated my ever so helpful in Ranked Battles Acoustic Search.  Up blinks the enemy Kiev, still within his smoke, repair activated fixing his fire and engine, and he is now kiting away from me.  

 

From this point on, things get weird.   I'm chasing him a little, ever conscious now I am getting pulled away from my fleet who is fighting the enemy teams fleet a good distance away from us.  I have rescued our Fubuki, and he is now retreating back to the main battle.  I keep firing at this Kiev, most of my shots out of the front three guns of my Mogami are landing hits every salvo. RNG is messing with me, my hits are doing minimum roll after minimum roll.  One more salvo I keep telling myself and this guy is dead.   I am very weary of my position on the map, trying to decide if I should let him go and try to help my team, or finish him.  I know a late game Kiev kiting BBs or perhaps killing our CV could cost us the game, so I'm torn.   I hit him a bunch more times, yet this guy just won't die. 

 

I have attracted the attention of the enemy teams' CV, and their cruiser.  The cruiser, another Mogami, is taking pot shots at me as I'm trying to finish this horrible Kiev.  The CV drops DBs on me, (oh painful Mogami AA) and then the torp bombers come.  I try to avoid torp bombers and eat a couple, and Kiev goes dark, at this point, at about 400HP.

 

I am now flooding, and I fix it, and the enemy Mogami sets me on fire shortly after Repair ends.  I am doomed.  All I can do is hope to do as much damage as possible before I burn out.  I shoot the enemy Mogami twice, once with a full salvo of AP in his side for 10k damage, I sink and burn out.    Enemy Kiev does not die.

 

This battle came right down to the end,  the enemy CV was alive as was ours, and the Fubuki I managed to save.  We lost based on being down 50 points because we failed to hold the cap points, although up on ships.  If we had another 2 minutes our Fubuki and CV would have killed the enemy CV and we'd have won.  It was a close battle, with each team fighting hard.  Can't complain there.

 

My question to this forum.  In a game mechanic, rock paper scissors environment, how many shots is 'reasonable' to all to actually have an anti DD cruiser, kill a tier lower DD.   In my after battle report, I hit this Kiev 23 times. TWENTY THREE TIMES with HE shells, and he DID NOT DIE.   Should he have?  Is this 'reasonable RNG' for all of you to think I'd have to hit him 25 times to kill him?  Two salvos in my opinion should completely nuke a DD from the Mogami. I am in fact there to destroy DDs, am I not?  Should I not, or anyone else for that matter, be able to make quick work of a paper ship with fast firing HE rounds?    The enemy Kiev driver did well to stay alive, but I question whether that was luck or skill in this instance. He was kiting, but staying lit, and getting hit by at least 2 or 3 shells every time I fired.  I just kept getting trolled by 'incapacitations' instead of HP damage.

 

My follow up question is this..if you were me, would you have chased him down? Or left him and gone back to the fleet when he started retreating to the far reaches of the map?  He only went dark the first smoke pop, and when I had to avoid the enemy CV attack.   

 

Just curious to what everyone thinks about all of this..  An actual game play discussion instead of the merits or evils of Anime.

 

[bad_arcade_kitty]

i think i once hit mahan 30+ times with he and she didn't die

and another time i hit isokaze 30+ times with he and she didn't die too

 

i suppose it's mostly damage saturation, some parts of ship can take only so much damage and everything else is wasted

[Sinboto]

Sounds like you were hitting him for minimum damage, or there's something about the russian DDs I don't know about, it's never taken me that long to take down a DD in mogami. 

[InvalidKey]

Could be the age-old hit box issue, where a section of the ship has already taken maximum damage and won't take any more. If you were always hitting him from a certain angle, it's likely the shells would be concentrated to that one ship segment.

[TurboT]

Could be the age-old hit box issue, where a section of the ship has already taken maximum damage and won't take any more. If you were always hitting him from a certain angle, it's likely the shells would be concentrated to that one ship segment.

 

Sounds like a bull crap game mechanic to me.  I've taken less time to kill a Kiev in the Benson with less guns and lower caliber shells.  It just struck me as one of those, "This game is out to get me" moments when I just kept hitting him and hitting him and he just kept staying alive and staying alive.

 

[BelgaraththeSorcerer]

The thing is with the Kiev, if its too fragile its useless because as soon as you start firing you die, but then again its also quite sturdy for a destroyer and this allows it to take hits because it is almost always spotted while dealing damage. A Kiev should be able to take a beating, from this I see your main problem as the fact that the enemy team focused you to save their Kiev and the Kiev disengaged like they are supposed to. In a 1 vs 1 situation a Kiev will NEVER win versus a Mogami unless the Mogami cant shoot, but with support it allows the Kiev with its horrid maneuverability to become a 2nd rate target to the battleships and cruisers coming after you and that's when it is scariest, when it can burn you to the waterline while you focus on other ships. I understand the feeling of a Kiev wrecking you, but what I see from this story is that even though you did most everything right, the enemy team worked together to save its destroyer and defeat you.

[Commanderjoebob]

RNG in this game can sometimes be a little too... RNG. I actually believe it was bugged for some time because my New York used to only do 1000 dmg per shell. Not that that's bad, but it was always exactly 1000. Never 1005, or 1400, always 1000, exactly. So if I hit with 4 shells, 4000 damage. It was really weird but it seemed to just stop a while back.

[Sirus_Patton]

I've had a Minekaze tank 20 rounds of BB HE before, so I'm not surprised at all when a large DD with a lot of HP can tank a pile of rounds.

[ntp_ntp]

[XxBlack_MagicxX]

The thing is with the Kiev, if its too fragile its useless because as soon as you start firing you die, but then again its also quite sturdy for a destroyer and this allows it to take hits because it is almost always spotted while dealing damage. A Kiev should be able to take a beating, from this I see your main problem as the fact that the enemy team focused you to save their Kiev and the Kiev disengaged like they are supposed to. In a 1 vs 1 situation a Kiev will NEVER win versus a Mogami unless the Mogami cant shoot, but with support it allows the Kiev with its horrid maneuverability to become a 2nd rate target to the battleships and cruisers coming after you and that's when it is scariest, when it can burn you to the waterline while you focus on other ships. I understand the feeling of a Kiev wrecking you, but what I see from this story is that even though you did most everything right, the enemy team worked together to save its destroyer and defeat you.

 

I think what the OP is saying that in a world where CL/CA is the "hard counter" to DD - that this world should rarely, if ever happen. I've had plenty of times where I laid a broadside into a DD who was broadside to me only to have it do minimum damage or 2k-3k (on a good shot) of their 7k-9k hps.  The DD then takes evasive action, pops smoke, etc, and they can be very slippery to get a shot on unless you are 5k-7k away, essentially staring into their torpedo tubes.

 

Having been shot enough times by a Cruiser's hard counter (a battleship), HUGE chunks of my life are flying off. If I'm low tier, one shot or detonated.

 

The Cruiser remains in this weird zone where they are food for nearly everyone, but never enough of a hard counter to anyone to make them actually afraid of you.

[BelgaraththeSorcerer]

I understand what the OP says, the Kiev is a MASSIVE destroyer compared to the other ones, If I pull up next to a Benson, my Kiev is 30%-40% longer and quite a bit taller while it also is much easily detected and turns worse than some BB's this balances its guns and its lack of the invisifiring ability of other Destroyers.

 

Yes, a BB can delete a cruiser thats sailing broadside to it, and so can a Cruiser, they can't generally 1 shot destroyers but they can do massive chunks of damage with well placed salvo's. In both cases the damage taken can be mitigated by decreasing the profile size of the ship you are sailing so that you have the angle of the ship working for you.

[Shadowrigger1]

Rock, Paper, Scissors is just a Game slogan concept, it does not, has not, and will not exist in this game, ever.

[XxBlack_MagicxX]

Yes, a BB can delete a cruiser thats sailing broadside to it, and so can a Cruiser, they can't generally 1 shot destroyers but they can do massive chunks of damage with well placed salvo's. In both cases the damage taken can be mitigated by decreasing the profile size of the ship you are sailing so that you have the angle of the ship working for you.

 

Yes, but Cruisers are generally the only class of ship that regularly gets 'deleted'. I'm not counting when a ship gets hit by a grip of torpedos - that will delete any ship. I have yet to actually 'delete' any ship in my Cruiser in almost 350 games and the ones that I've absolutely wrecked (not deleted), have been other Cruisers ....

[TurboT]

The thing is with the Kiev, if its too fragile its useless because as soon as you start firing you die, but then again its also quite sturdy for a destroyer and this allows it to take hits because it is almost always spotted while dealing damage. A Kiev should be able to take a beating, from this I see your main problem as the fact that the enemy team focused you to save their Kiev and the Kiev disengaged like they are supposed to. In a 1 vs 1 situation a Kiev will NEVER win versus a Mogami unless the Mogami cant shoot, but with support it allows the Kiev with its horrid maneuverability to become a 2nd rate target to the battleships and cruisers coming after you and that's when it is scariest, when it can burn you to the waterline while you focus on other ships. I understand the feeling of a Kiev wrecking you, but what I see from this story is that even though you did most everything right, the enemy team worked together to save its destroyer and defeat you.

 

It was a hard fought battle no doubt, both teams did some good things.  I think I did a good thing keeping our Fubuki alive, because he almost own the battle for us.  Their CV did well as did ours, and yes, they came back and saved the Kiev, but only after the dude had taken 23 hits from a Mogami.... I can see him taking 23 hits from a Benson or Mahan or Fubuki with smaller caliber rounds, but dude... come on, if you get hit 23 times by anything in this game in a DD and you should be dead way before that.  

 

I'm not blaming the driver, the ship or anything like that, it was just such fail RNG in this game.. I didn't hit him with one salvo and have him disappear from sight.  He was lit almost the whole time with every salvo connecting in some manner on his ship.. I was just so bloody shocked I didn't get the 'enemy destroyed' announcement I almost gave up on the CV and CA attacking me.

 

..and I did grind through the Kiev already so I do know the ship, and know that most of the time I get hit my cruisers my guns and engine break almost instantly.. the fact his motor broke only once is another add to the "OMG what is happening" moment..

 

 

[atPrick__]

 

I came in here just to post this. Beat me to it.

[chriztahfah]

The Kiev is made of Stallinium and therefore is immune to all forms of damage.

In seriousness though, 600 a shell would kill him from full health easily so you probably got shafted. I only play BBs and therefore have AP loaded all the time (unless the last ships are DDs) and therefore shoot a lot of AP at DDs in ranked. While you always do minimum damage, it's still 1300 damage per shell. The Mogami with 155s would do 330 per shell, which would have done a minimum of 7,800, a good chunk of his HP. However, not every shell overpens. there are many situations where a shell will go bow-stern or stern-bow on a destroyer and roll for 33% damage, you would see a couple of these hits too in your mogami. As funny as it sounds, you might have been better off with AP.

 

In my Amagi I one shot a Udaloi with 4 shells because they all rolled for 33% damage because of its "armor" he was fairly broadside too.

[Camo68]

I mainly use DDs and usually if a Mogami targets me it's game over in two salvos.

 

I think the Rng gods were against you, that and the severe firing angle.

 

BTW the second you become the focus it's best to disengage but usually it's too late to get out of the situation.

[ntp_ntp]

 

I came in here just to post this. Beat me to it.

 

Any way I can make it up to you,sailor?