Victory in the Pacific/War at Sea rates our ships

[Coyote720]

 

Years ago before personal computers, there was a company called Avalon Hill that produced war games. My two favorites were Victory in the Pacific and War at Sea. These games used basically the same combat system, and each major warship is represented by a counter. I thought it would be interesting to some to see how our favorite WoWs warships were rated.

 

Not every World of Warships ship is represented in either game for various reasons. For example, the Tier I Chester was scrapped in 1930, so it never made it to World War II. Of course, there are no counters for ships that were never actually built, such as the battleship Amagi. (There was an aircraft carrier named Amagi, however!)

 

Cruisers aren't very interesting to compare because they are all rated a "1" for offense. Also, most light cruisers (and all destroyers) are not represented in the game at all. Ratings with an asterisk have an enhanced attack bonus that I'll explain at the end. The ratings below are for offense, defense, speed, and (if applicable) air attack.

 

United States

Cruisers

Pensacola 1-1-7

New Orleans 1-1-7

Baltimore 1-2-7

 

Battleships

New York 4-4-3

New Mexico 4-5-3

Colorado 5-5-3

North Carolina 5-6-5

Iowa 5*-9-7

 

Carriers

Independence 0-2-7 (2*)

Lexington 1-3-7 (4*)

Essex 1-3-7 (4*)

 

Japanese

Cruisers

Furutaka 1*-1-7

Aoba 1*-1-7

Myoko 1*-2-7

Mogami 1*-1-8

Atago 1*-2-7

 

Battleships

Kongo 4-3-6

Fuso 4-4-4

Nagato 5-5-4

Yamato 6-9-5

 

Carriers

Hosho 0-1-4 (1*)

Zuiho 0-0-5 (2*)

Ryujo 0-1-5 (2*)

Hiryu 1-1-8 (3*)

Shokaku 1-3-8 (4*)

Taiho 0-3-7 (3)

 

German

Cruiser

Admiral Hipper 1-2-7

 

Battleship

Tirpitz 4-9-6

 

British

Battleship

Warspite 4-4-4

 

Bonus attack ratings were given to Japanese cruisers to reflect their effective Long Lance torpedoes.

Bonus attack rating was given to the Iowa due to its excellent radar fire-control system.

Bonus attack ratings were given to carriers except for the Taiho. By the time Taiho entered the war, Japanese pilots were of poor quality due to heavy attrition.

 

Combat: A die is rolled for each attack rating for a ship. If a six is rolled, a hit is scored. Roll another die for each hit to see how much damage is done to the target. Once a target receives damage in excess of its defense rating, it sinks. Ships with a bonus attack rating need only roll a five or six to achieve a hit. There's more to the combat system, but that's enough to give you an idea how the ratings interact.

 

If you find either game in a garage sale, they are both worth picking up.

 

 

[Wowzery]

Still have both of these games.  Even created an alternate universe game using a modified combat system.

[Killjoy1941]

You can actually pick up a reasonably well adapted PC version of VitP. It's called War Plan Pacific and it's sold by Shrapnel Games. You can play it out in an hour SP or MP.

 

If naval strategy and operations are your thing, head over to Matrix Games as well. They have everything from old SSG titles like Carriers at War to the biggest monster of them all - War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition. WitP:AE is a more modern version of a Gary Grigsby game, and comparable to Pacific War by Victory Games. WitP truly is a monster game only recommended for the biggest WW2 naval nerd. You have been warned: It tracks individual pilots.

 

(Not putting in links to another game and publisher.)

[ReddNekk]

I never played either of those. The Avalon Hill games that I did play, a lot, was Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, PanzerBlitz, Panzer Leader, and Squad Leader. I still have the last 2 and occasionally play them.

[FallenZulu]

I remember those games and I quite enjoyed them. I also enjoyed such games as  Pacific Storm. I loved Pacific Storm in particular. They do not seem to make such great games as they use to. Now everything IMO is more dumb down. 

[Coyote720]

You can actually pick up a reasonably well adapted PC version of VitP. It's called War Plan Pacific and it's sold by Shrapnel Games. You can play it out in an hour SP or MP.

 

If naval strategy and operations are your thing, head over to Matrix Games as well. They have everything from old SSG titles like Carriers at War to the biggest monster of them all - War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition. WitP:AE is a more modern version of a Gary Grigsby game, and comparable to Pacific War by Victory Games. WitP truly is a monster game only recommended for the biggest WW2 naval nerd. You have been warned: It tracks individual pilots.

 

(Not putting in links to another game and publisher.)

 

Thank you for this tip! I'll go check that out.

 

I'm going to pass on those monster board games though. Anything more complicated than VitP and my eyes start to glaze over. In fact, one of the reasons I got so interested in naval games is that so many of them were so playable compared to most of the land battle games.

[Taichunger]

Hours of play from both those games. Lots of fun, especially Victory in the Pacific.

 

Thanks for the tips about the computer game. 

 

 

[Killjoy1941]

 

Thank you for this tip! I'll go check that out.

 

I'm going to pass on those monster board games though. Anything more complicated than VitP and my eyes start to glaze over. In fact, one of the reasons I got so interested in naval games is that so many of them were so playable compared to most of the land battle games.

 

You're welcome, though you might still want to check out Carriers at War. It looks more complicated than it is and still holds the "best carrier game" title, though there is some merit to accusations that the game plays the player due to most of the highly critical decisions being front-loaded.

[imweasel]

Ahhh...

 

Dice rolling in the paci...err victory in the Pacific. Great game ruled by d6 rng.

 

Pander blitz, I remember me some macro games of that.

 

Anyone actually finish a game of The Longest Day?

[centarina]

third reich was another game I never could play through.    takes too long.      I still have them as well as pre ASL squad leader

[Montana_Prussian]

Had a bunch of AH,SPI and VG boardgames. I still have most of them. My favorite Naval games were AH's Jutland(you played it on the floor) and SPI's Dreadnought. Still have both. Forgot to also mention Wooden Ships and Iron Men,another favorite.

[Montana_Prussian]

third reich was another game I never could play through.    takes too long.      I still have them as well as pre ASL squad leader

 

Need a group of dedicated players to play 3R through. Only did it twice.

[atPrick__]

Koei produced P.T.O 1&2, cool game on SNES that I loved...

[Killjoy1941]

Had a bunch of AH,SPI and VG boardgames. I still have most of them. My favorite Naval games were AH's Jutland(you played it on the floor) and SPI's Dreadnought. Still have both. Forgot to also mention Wooden Ships and Iron Men,another favorite.

 

Oh god, the time I spent playing that...

[Vad_Varo]

All great games, but the kingpins of Naval Combat on the table are General Quarters 3 (and its WWI version, Fleet Action Imminent) for larger scale battles, and the incredibly detailed Seekreig V.  The OP has brought up a really interesting point: I'm going to dig up some of the ship stats from the games and do some comparisons as well.

 

As an aside, my measure of the fidelity of game system was to compare the stats for two specific guns: the WWI era British 12" gun vs the German 12" of the same time frame. IRL, the German 12" performance was much better and similar to the contempory 13.5" British weapon. If a game uses the same stats for both weapons, they didn't do their homework. The above two both passed this simple comparison,many others do not.

[bzep666]

 I have both of those games and loved them. I found the most difficult of that genre to play was Flat Top. It had a lot of movement that the other player couldnt see, scout planes and submarine movement. I also played tons of Third Reich, Panzer Leader, Panzer Blitz, and some of the newer ones like 5th Fleet and such. It is good to know there are still others out there with those games.

[Nachoo31]

P.T.O was my naval game of choice on SNES. I have a copy in my SNES atm.

[Montana_Prussian]

 

Oh god, the time I spent playing that...

 

And you needed the time to plot all the sci-moves,especially fighting a fleet action(That goes for Jutland as well).

[Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai]

You can actually pick up a reasonably well adapted PC version of VitP. It's called War Plan Pacific and it's sold by Shrapnel Games. You can play it out in an hour SP or MP.

 

If naval strategy and operations are your thing, head over to Matrix Games as well. They have everything from old SSG titles like Carriers at War to the biggest monster of them all - War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition. WitP:AE is a more modern version of a Gary Grigsby game, and comparable to Pacific War by Victory Games. WitP truly is a monster game only recommended for the biggest WW2 naval nerd. You have been warned: It tracks individual pilots.

 

(Not putting in links to another game and publisher.)

By individual pilots does it generate pilots or would it have people like Saburo Sakai and John Thach?

[Killjoy1941]

 I have both of those games and loved them. I found the most difficult of that genre to play was Flat Top. It had a lot of movement that the other player couldnt see, scout planes and submarine movement. I also played tons of Third Reich, Panzer Leader, Panzer Blitz, and some of the newer ones like 5th Fleet and such. It is good to know there are still others out there with those games.

 

 

And you needed the time to plot all the sci-moves,especially fighting a fleet action(That goes for Jutland as well).

 

Yeah, there's another two. Flat Top and Jutland were also in my collection.

 

By individual pilots does it generate pilots or would it have people like Saburo Sakai and John Thach?

 

It generates pilots, but the more famous ones might be in there as well. I honestly can't remember. It tracks things like pilot skill, kills, and fatigue. The game models individual infantry squads, artillery pieces, requires you to pick objectives for ground combat units months in advance, has representation for Japanese factories (you can even change production), and painstakingly models logistics. It's turn-based and each turn is a single day broken into several phases of movement and combat. If that kind of thing interests you, expect a game to take half as long as the actual war to complete.

[Wowzery]

Did anyone ever expand their Victory in the Pacific/War at Sea games?  I added in the French fleet, even went and tried to create WW1 fleets for a massive battle going from WW1 to the end of WW2.

[centarina]

i played General quarters,  Seekrieg, woodenships (I believe still have that game)  ,  and ironclad (civil war game)     ironclad was lot of fun and detail.      oy,  legacy of mispent youth. 

 

[VictoryInThePacific]

I know the OP is a few years old, but I just ran into this while Googling something else about WW2 navies, and figured I'd update it since there are new ships in WoW that weren't around in 2015, and including special premiums, unreleased, and removed ships.

To reiterate:

 

Quote

Not every World of Warships ship is represented in either game for various reasons. For example, the Tier I Chester was scrapped in 1930, so it never made it to World War II. Of course, there are no counters for ships that were never actually built, such as the battleship Amagi. (There was an aircraft carrier named Amagi, however!)

Most light cruisers and all destroyers are not represented in the game at all. Ratings with an asterisk have an enhanced attack bonus that I'll explain at the end. The ratings below are for offense, defense, speed, and (if applicable) air attack.

USA:
Salt Lake City 1-1-7
Indianapolis 1-1-7
Texas 4-4-3
Alabama 5*-6-5
Massachusetts 5*-6-5
Missouri 5*-9-7
Enterprise 0-2-7 (4*)

Japan:
Tone 1*-1-8
Nachi 1*-2-7
Takao 1*-2-7
Kirishima 4-3-6
Musashi 6-9-5
Kaga 1-4-5 (4*)

Germany:
Graf Spee 2*-2-5
Gneisenau 3*-5-7
Scharnhorst 3*-5-7
Bismarck 4*-9-6
Graf Zeppelin 1-2-8 (2)

Britain:
Hood 4-4-7
Queen Elizabeth 4-4-4
Nelson 5-5-3
King George V 4-5-6
Duke of York 4-5-6

Italy:
Guilio Cesare 4-3-5
Roma 4-6-6

The * for the "attack bonus" basically represents one of four things: Long Lance torpedoes, fire-control radar, superior optics, or superior pilot training.  The optics attack bonus for German ships is a little iffy - makes sense early in the war maaaybe, but British radar soon outpaced them -  but I suspect the designer of War at Sea was trying to give the Axis a chance in that game (same reason Bismarck/Tirpitz are a 9 for defense when a 6 or 7 would be more realistic, and that Graf Zeppelin is included - the one and only counter in either game that was for a ship that wasn't fully constructed.)
 

Quote

dice rolling in the paci...err victory in the Pacific. Great game ruled by d6 rng.

Eh, sometimes. Most of the time the player who makes better than moves than the other will win.
 

Quote

If you find either game in a garage sale, they are both worth picking up.

Agree. In addition, you can often find them on ebay or at half-price books. Also, both games are actually still somewhat popular today.

If anyone's interested in knowing more - finding if there are face to face players in your area, discussing the game and old memories, learning how to play the game online or over email, stuff like that - send me a private message. Like another poster said, I don't want to be posting outside links on the forum relating to a game that isn't World of Warships.

[sPzAbt505]

On 12/10/2015 at 9:27 PM, Coyote720 said:

If you find either game in a garage sale, they are both worth picking up

I still have mine.