CV gameplay is no fun

[legiox]

Sorry. Tier 8 CV gameplay is boring and just no justification to keep grinding it out. Every ships AA is crazy good and every ship seems to have some sort of consumable to either throw your TB or DB aim into crap or shoot them down in 1-3 seconds. On top of that you are dealing with other enemy CV's. The nerf was just to much.

[Grevester]

tell not your ship what it should do. ask what your ship can do for you

[HBZK100]

I feel your pain, I just got my Lexington and wow, it's hard to land any kind of kill.

[legiox]

I'm thinking about selling it. I'm having more fun with Cleveland and some BB's than running around entire map doing nothing.

[cdnice55]

That is disappointing to hear.

[DakotaSurfer]

WG has ruined the CV class because of all the whiners saying the CV's are OP.  They never were or are OP'd.  They did what they were suppose to do, sink ships.  Players didn't see them coming so the first thing you hear is:  wha wah CV's are OP.  Now they were hit by a Nerf Nuke and have become worthless.  Lets take DD that was 3 km in front of me, no smoke, no rocks, nothing, it just kept disappearing every time I went to shoot at it.  It shows back up, I aim to shoot and it disappears again.  There is a word for that but I can't say it in here.

[TurboT]

WG has ruined the CV class because of all the whiners saying the CV's are OP.  They never were or are OP'd.  They did what they were suppose to do, sink ships.  Players didn't see them coming so the first thing you hear is:  wha wah CV's are OP.  Now they were hit by a Nerf Nuke and have become worthless.  Lets take DD that was 3 km in front of me, no smoke, no rocks, nothing, it just kept disappearing every time I went to shoot at it.  It shows back up, I aim to shoot and it disappears again.  There is a word for that but I can't say it in here.

 

... And now there are 6 DDs a side running around invisible launching 15-20km torp salvos everywhere, but that Sir, is just fine.

[Noreaga]

 

... And now there are 6 DDs a side running around invisible launching 15-20km torp salvos everywhere, but that Sir, is just fine.

 

thank you ! The CV class is only OP if they don't play it. CV's requires some serious thinking to be a force t5 and on, never understood the whining but then i don't understand the [edited]about Arty in wot either... if you are stupid enough to sit out in the open for minutes on end, zoomed in, with blinders on, then you deserve to be killed.

Unless it's a perfect torp set up, any captain not watching TV while they are playing can avoid torps easily. Buff planes health (or add more planes) and slightly nerf ship AA (personally dislike that AA can set your planes into panic).

 

BB's where made obsolete by the CV and not the other way around. Wow end rant, I loved CV's pre release and now...

 

 

[HolyWaterCow]

I don't know about no fun because I've never played as a high tier CV but I do know that the high tier matches without CVs are unbalanced and dreadfully boring. There seems to be few CVs playing in high tier matches so ya know... most high tier matches are unbalanced and dreadfully boring.

 

Here's what I mean specifically about high tier matches without CVs...

 

Cruisers are not worth playing at high tiers because they cannot perform their basic duties - AA support and killing DDs. The first is obvious... no CVs, no planes to shoot down. The second, and more frustrating, is that without CVs planes flying around, high tier DDs can easily sit outside detection range of cruisers. Cruisers can either charge the area where the DD might be like suicidal maniacs (bringing themselves into range of the entire enemy team) or just hope a friendly DD will eventually spot the enemy DD.

 

BBs can play like aloof, selfish dimwits and still thrive. High tier BBs have no incentive to play as a team (no need for AA support) and have no incentive to keep moving/maneuvering because there's no threat from TBs/DBs. As a consequence, you so often see high tier BBs like NC, Yam, Iowa, etc. sitting at max firing distance with their bows pointed directly at the enemy and just go backwards and forwards along a straight line (like a ****ing train). When things start going south, like clockwork they just slowly back away by themselves (99% of the time without saying anything) and hope their team gets annihilated quickly so the match ends before enemy DDs can hump it all the way across the map to be able to torp them. BBs don't have the luxury of playing so selfishly and isolated when there are squadrons of TBs/DBs hunting them.

 

DDs can choose to remain undetectable the whole match. With CVs, the choice isn't theirs.

[WoodWard_Wilson]

Here's the layout of problems with CV's, the Tier 4 ones are fun because most tier 4 ships lack potent AA and the Langley and Hosho are fairly balanced, the tier 5's are where the problem starts with the fighter spam loadout on the bogue. The Zuiho does not stand an effective chance against this loadout, and as a result, it must prey that the bogue is running the bomber loadout, At Tier 6 the situation is completely flipped, the Independece is the only mid tier Us CV with a balanced loadout, so everyone runs that, problem is, the Ryujo has "Bogue factor" in that it gets 3 Fighter squads enabling it to crapdown the enemy while retaining a TB and 2 DB which allow it to do decent damage at the same time, Tier 7 isn't a balance problem it's a numbers problem, the 2/2/2 allows the Hiryu to outnumber the ranger on the Air so unless the Ranger takes the 2/0/2 setup in which he gives up any serious offensive capability he gets outmatched, tier 8 is the turn around though, the Lexington's 2/1/1 out Fighters the shoakakus 2/2/2, at tier 9 the Taiho from my observation is better than the essex in the fighter department whereas the Essex is the "Mini-Death Star" of tier 9, then everyone knows the Midway out Damages the Hakuruyu, but the Hakuruyu beats the Midway in terms of fighters, so a general overview is that the USN start out as Fighter spammers and turn into Damage machines , and the IJN do the inverse going from damage to fighter machines. Overall, the problem is simply that wargaming is trying to pigeon hole select different roles, and you don't get the same rewards and quality of play are different based on which role your pigeon holed into, I think the best way to fix this is to create a system where each player can choose their own loadout, I created a post about this back on in the CBT forums, so I'll re-paste it here, but here it is

 

Carrier Balancing

 

A solution to solve the Carrier balance problem is a point system on carriers and their loud outs.

 

Every carrier has a certain # of hangar points every tier you go up you get another hangar point so

 

Tier 4: 5 Points

Tier 5: 6 Points

Tier 6: 7 Points

Tier 7: 8 Points

Tier 8: 9 Points

Tier 9: 10 Points

Tier 10: 11 Points

 

For USN Carriers

 

Fighter Squadrons cost 1 hangar point

 

Dive Bombers cost 2 hangar points

 

Torpedo Bombers cost 3 hangar points

 

(USN carriers have more planes per squad [6] but have less squads, so each squad costs more)

 

For IJN Carriers

Fighter squadrons cost 1 hangar point

 

Dive Bombers cost 1 hangar point

 

Torpedo Bombers cost 2 hangar points

 

(Japanese carriers carry more Squads, but with less planes per squad, so this allows IJN carriers to carry more squads)

 

Here is an example of the system applied to USN Carriers

 

Tier 4: 5 Points ex: 1 FT, 1 TB

Tier 5: 6 Points ex: 1 FT, 1 TB, 1 DB

Tier 6: 7 Points ex: 1 FT, 2 TB

Tier 7: 8 Points ex: 2 FT, 2 TB

Tier 8: 9 Points ex: 1 FT, 2 TB, 1 DB

Tier 9: 10 Points ex: 2 FT, 2 TB, 1 DB

Tier 10: 11 Points ex: 1 FT, 2 TB, 2 DB

 

Certain Restrictions for USN Carriers:

The Maximum # of Fighter squads would be 3 at all tiers

 

The maximum # of torpedo bombers would be 2 at all tiers (no 3 TB Nuking of Yamatos)

 

The Maximum # of dive bomber squads would be 3 at all tiers

 

USN CV's TB damage per torpedo would scale to 1/2 of the dmg that that tiers DD's torps do (ex: tier 5 DD's have about 13k Max damage, so the TB's would do about 6.5k damage per hit (this may seem a little low, but consider how u can have 2 TB squads, and and it equals out to about the same as you do now))

 

Certain Restrictions for IJN Carriers:

 

The maximum # of Fighter Squads would be 3 until tier 9-10 where it would be 4

 

The maximum # of Torpedo Squads would be 3 until tier 9-10 where it would be 4

 

The maximum # of Dive Bombers would be 3 until tier 9 where it would be 4

 

IJN TB damage would remain constant at 8500 at all tiers, (the maximum # of Torpedoes hits an IJN CV can do with 2 squads is about 1/2 the spread at 4, but remember the higher tier u go the bigger the ship's get and the easier it is is to land 6 torpedo hits (not guaranteed, but it's more likely, remember the higher tier u go the more people are situational aware of their surroundings), couple this with an increase to 4 TB squads at higher tiers and you can do some damage that it equivalent to the current USN high tier carriers

 

Pros:

 

This system would solve any balancing issues with CV's unless its a problem with a specific plane type

 

This system would allow players to adjust their loadout to their play style with carriers

 

This system would require more skill because it would mean that their is no "best" loadout on a carrier that everyone would use because you can customize your loadouts so players would always have to be on their toes because they could never accurately assume their opponents loadouts

 

Cons:

Some minor plane spam of one type may occur, however, the restrictions I have created negate any serious spam of certain aircraft types

 

What do you guys think?

[AkiraKurai]

Carrier Balancing

 

A solution to solve the Carrier balance problem is a point system on carriers and their loud outs.

 

Every carrier has a certain # of hangar points every tier you go up you get another hangar point so

 

Tier 4: 5 Points

Tier 5: 6 Points

Tier 6: 7 Points

Tier 7: 8 Points

Tier 8: 9 Points

Tier 9: 10 Points

Tier 10: 11 Points

 

For USN Carriers

 

Fighter Squadrons cost 1 hangar point

 

Dive Bombers cost 2 hangar points

 

Torpedo Bombers cost 3 hangar points

 

(USN carriers have more planes per squad [6] but have less squads, so each squad costs more)

 

For IJN Carriers

Fighter squadrons cost 1 hangar point

 

Dive Bombers cost 1 hangar point

 

Torpedo Bombers cost 2 hangar points

 

(Japanese carriers carry more Squads, but with less planes per squad, so this allows IJN carriers to carry more squads)

 

Here is an example of the system applied to USN Carriers

 

Tier 4: 5 Points ex: 1 FT, 1 TB

Tier 5: 6 Points ex: 1 FT, 1 TB, 1 DB

Tier 6: 7 Points ex: 1 FT, 2 TB

Tier 7: 8 Points ex: 2 FT, 2 TB

Tier 8: 9 Points ex: 1 FT, 2 TB, 1 DB

Tier 9: 10 Points ex: 2 FT, 2 TB, 1 DB

Tier 10: 11 Points ex: 1 FT, 2 TB, 2 DB

 

Certain Restrictions for USN Carriers:

The Maximum # of Fighter squads would be 3 at all tiers

 

The maximum # of torpedo bombers would be 2 at all tiers (no 3 TB Nuking of Yamatos)

 

The Maximum # of dive bomber squads would be 3 at all tiers

 

USN CV's TB damage per torpedo would scale to 1/2 of the dmg that that tiers DD's torps do (ex: tier 5 DD's have about 13k Max damage, so the TB's would do about 6.5k damage per hit (this may seem a little low, but consider how u can have 2 TB squads, and and it equals out to about the same as you do now))

 

Certain Restrictions for IJN Carriers:

 

The maximum # of Fighter Squads would be 3 until tier 9-10 where it would be 4

 

The maximum # of Torpedo Squads would be 3 until tier 9-10 where it would be 4

 

The maximum # of Dive Bombers would be 3 until tier 9 where it would be 4

 

IJN TB damage would remain constant at 8500 at all tiers, (the maximum # of Torpedoes hits an IJN CV can do with 2 squads is about 1/2 the spread at 4, but remember the higher tier u go the bigger the ship's get and the easier it is is to land 6 torpedo hits (not guaranteed, but it's more likely, remember the higher tier u go the more people are situational aware of their surroundings), couple this with an increase to 4 TB squads at higher tiers and you can do some damage that it equivalent to the current USN high tier carriers

 

Pros:

 

This system would solve any balancing issues with CV's unless its a problem with a specific plane type

 

This system would allow players to adjust their loadout to their play style with carriers

 

This system would require more skill because it would mean that their is no "best" loadout on a carrier that everyone would use because you can customize your loadouts so players would always have to be on their toes because they could never accurately assume their opponents loadouts

 

Cons:

Some minor plane spam of one type may occur, however, the restrictions I have created negate any serious spam of certain aircraft types

 

What do you guys think?

There are many posts out there similar to this however, In my opinion it would be best is we were able to assign the amount of planes we are allowed to take off instead of a preloaded set.

We still have the idea of fight control deck types which affect how many of those certain types of planes we have in stock in our hangar but we can send which ever planes we want into the air. Ex if someone uses the IJN mod 2 flight deck which is usually 2/2/2 can at anytime once a plane lands launch a TB instead of a fighter which will look like a 1/3/2. This in turn will allow more freedom but not to much to the point where one ship would be carrying 138 TB (Midway). Of course this may need to re balanced some of the things if this was to happen example would be to enhance the AA or maybe limit the amount of bombers you can send out at once which is what you said.

[Mattycat44]

Yup stop playing mine as well, got sick of trying to torp or bomb 1 ship at a time cause if you go up against 1 ship most of your planes are gone god forbid you get two ship close to each other.Ships AA defense needs serious nerf bat or these planes need AC130 armor. 

[propainnj]

i just got my bouge and wish i didnt waste the xp on it.  one match my only action was one plane shot down lol.

[Palladia]

In the T8 games I've run into,  I've not had that much of a problem.  Oddly,  single ship AA doesn't seem to be as effective now.  I can make runs on Clevelands and New Mexico's at my rank with very few losses,  and runs on North Carolina's and T8 cruisers with acceptable ones.  BUT en mass AA seems to be MORE effective now,  with two or more AA's of even decent strength being able to decimate squads.  Course that is when I am up against higher tier AA firepower,  same tier multiple AA ships I take loses but can usually come away with half of my planes left.

 

Course that's just my observation.  I'm also seeing a lot more weirdness in fighter confrontations,  with one side or the other fairly often walking away with few loses while the other side is decimated,  even in 'equal' engagements.  Things seem to be weird right now.

[PearsonBurne]

Can't get the Ranger to actually target anymore.  Press 3, hold alt, click where I want in close view...nothing happens.  Waste of time playing CVs now.

[Spongeman131]

The problem with CVs is a similar problem to DDs, they can launch torpedoes at you in such close proximity that you can rarely do anything about it except take a hit (even if it doesn't kill you). Even if you saw it coming 10-15 seconds before it happened.

 

The problem with CVs is the ability to do point blank drops. The "point of no return" needs to be increased so ships (and I'm not just talking about BBs here) can have a chance to evade. Even if the saw the planes coming and took preemptive maneuvers it's still possible for the captain to just reposition the planes and have another go at it (oh sure they might lose a fighter of two). 

[CanadianArmoured]

I played up to the Bogue. Im not a great CV captain since cruisers and some BBs could dodge my torp drops even manual ones, and my last T9 game I was focused on by the enemy CV in my Roon and he hit me with every attack, so Im not seeing what everyone is complaining about. Maybe I just didn't get high enough in the tiers. I found a good cv captain could get the job done and crappy one couldn't.

[tremor3258]

Does USN have a shorter 'active' time?  I never feel like I do that in IJN.

[Reymu]

It is more of a resource management (planes, flight time, who to kill, etc.) and RTS thing than you get introduced to in the cruisers/BB/DD types. I imagine not a lot of people are fond of it, especially since the situational awareness is the entire battlefield, not just your surroundings; last match was a loss, though not sure how much could be me and my teammate CV's fault since we were fairly dividing our time between TB runs and trying to defeat enemy bombers going for our BBs. It is quite the learning experience after being in a smaller world for many matches.

[Angeliccypher]

The problem with CVs is a similar problem to DDs, they can launch torpedoes at you in such close proximity that you can rarely do anything about it except take a hit (even if it doesn't kill you). Even if you saw it coming 10-15 seconds before it happened.

 

The problem with CVs is the ability to do point blank drops. The "point of no return" needs to be increased so ships (and I'm not just talking about BBs here) can have a chance to evade. Even if the saw the planes coming and took preemptive maneuvers it's still possible for the captain to just reposition the planes and have another go at it (oh sure they might lose a fighter of two). 

 

If you watch the plan indicators in the middle of your screen and cross check that with the minimap you can still do turns to avoid them.  Not dissimilar to angling your ship so shells are more likely to bounce off.  It takes advanced thought rather than reactive.

 

That said, I agree with a lot of the above.  I have a few issues right now I am noticing:

 

-When you first get a CV they are useless in most cases until you buy their upgraded planes.  No other ship type has this issue.

-CV captains now cannot afford to be aggressive.  They are constantly playing a baiting game to lure the enemy plans over your own ships to add the AA fire.  Which means the only thing you are doing for your team is taking up a slot.

-Basic AA is too powerful when ships are grouped together.  Most players have gotten to the point that they realize this and noone at the upper tiers strays.  So you are ineffective in getting anything to a target.

-The AA consumable is ridiculously overpowered

 

Given these points it is very rare that a CV can do well in the upper tiers.  Hence, little to no experience or credits.  Which brings me to my next set of grievances:

 

-It takes an obscene amount of time and games to purchase upgrades if you are actually working with your CV primarily.

-The repair cost is too high given the lack of ability to generate credits and experience effectively.  The last several matches I had with CVs my team was brain dead and I ended up negative in credits by 30k or more because I could not score more than a few plane shootdowns or a single bomb hit.

 

-The speed boost to returning planes has been increased too much.  At the same tier planes the DB were outrunning my fighters.  The TB were almost outrunning them.  Um what?

-If you are playing a defensive load out you are getting so little in experience and credits due to plane shoot downs being worth so little.  Your team loves you but you are going nowhere in the upgrades or tier section anytime soon.

 

People who complain about the CV being overpowered forget a few crucial things:  With no planes the CV is useless.  See the above issues on that one.  It takes forever to get planes to and from targets by comparison to even a BB reload time.  Just the landing, rearming and launching takes about a minute per squadron and that is not including getting them anywhere to hit something.  Likewise if the team plays correctly there will be a cruiser staying fairly close to the CV to protect it (which I will avoid my soapbox about cruiser skippers not realizing their job is to be the fleetguard).  Which means that is one less ship you need to worry about on the main battle line.  There is no class that is as defenseless as a CV.

 

Wargaming.net needs to fix this.

[Jaded_Dalanari]

 

yes they do need to fix it...though using WoT as a reference I wouldn't expect it to get much better.

WoT is constant "nation flavor" pigeon holes while caving to any whining complaint. [often ones that are frankly much maligned from the truth] while ignoring a general consensus.

 

2 cents on yet another cv thread.

 

[subsailorhouston]

I'm not sure what has changed, but I have been blown to bits by TB and DBs.

[Carrier_Lexington]

I'm not sure what has changed, but I have been blown to bits by TB and DBs.

 

Nothing. Occasionally, people will get nuked by planes. However, this has dropped, even though it is what is supposed to happen.

[Carrier_Junyo]

Sorry. Tier 8 CV gameplay is boring and just no justification to keep grinding it out. Every ships AA is crazy good and every ship seems to have some sort of consumable to either throw your TB or DB aim into crap or shoot them down in 1-3 seconds. On top of that you are dealing with other enemy CV's. The nerf was just to much.

 

All the AA and consumables in the world pale in comparison to facing a CV with fighter superiority. Just had a game in 113 Essex vs 211 Essex, and while I managed 81k dmg, the game made me want to rage quit CVs. I thought people at T9 would have better sense than to make the enemy CV's life miserable by picking fighter heavy loadouts while dealing essentially no damage to the enemy surface fleet. 

[Reymu]

 

All the AA and consumables in the world pale in comparison to facing a CV with fighter superiority. Just had a game in 113 Essex vs 211 Essex, and while I managed 81k dmg, the game made me want to rage quit CVs. I thought people at T9 would have better sense than to make the enemy CV's life miserable by picking fighter heavy loadouts while dealing essentially no damage to the enemy surface fleet. 

 

Kind of why it'd be great if CVs could opt not to face AS loadouts if running strike. It's a royal pain in the neck having to put up with that junk limiting your sorties.