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tooboku

Mutsuki, can you be anymore

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This is a venting/appreciation thread.

She's the little crappy ship that you hate but kind of like at the same time.

It's been such a grind I think I might keep her after I level out.

Sometimes with the right team, she really shines... 

Most of the time, she ends up like this.
YFJWuxX.png

 

 

EDIT: Title got cut off. Choose your own adjective.

Edited by tooboku

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If she ends up like that then you're getting too close.

Use that 4.1km stealth torp range, don't get any closer than 6.4km.

Also start firing torpeodes at slow people for the sake of firing torpedoes, area denial usually scores one or two hits. This might also be part of Bucky's torpedo walling, I don't know. Been meaning to get Mutsuki again and try her out now that i'm not total garbage.

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I know... Biggest things for me are spotting planes before they get too close and parking her so she's got a good angle to escape from when they get to that sweet spot just before her detectable range.

It's all these little subtle things that you will not be forgiven for if mess it up just a bit. At the same time, you really need to push it to the edge of that or you're not going to get anything.

 

This last game though, our carrier's bombers got chased by fighters so he lured them into our group with a boat load of AA. Pun intended. That for sure helped me get top score in that game. That, tight formations, and solid artillery. It's really nice when cruisers on your team shoot well enough to give you the space you need in front to keep pushing the enemy back with tubes even if you don't hit anything, they're expecting more and keep wanting to go back. Especially when you drop smoke to scare them. They all watch the smoke and try to spam it with torpedoes while you run around behind them and cut off their exit. It feels so good when you get a chance to do that.

 

She's a good ship but at the same time fragile, temperamental little thing. You can't play her without putting your A game into it.

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I have to admit to wondering if all those who are frustrated with the Mutsuki are using only the stock torpedoes and trying to run her like a Minekaze.  This would cause frustration I could understand, as Mutsuki doesn't have the speed or reload time of the Minekaze, which would end up putting the ship in a harder position to have success with and lead to an impression the captain has been handed a demotion in being assigned to her.

 

In fact, it is a very good ship for the mission both ships were designed to do, and better now than the Minekaze.  That mission is long-range stealth torpedo attack.  The Mutsuki is the now the first time a player has access to truly long-range torpedoes, and that's what you have to utilize to make the ship shine.  Being able to strike a target at 8km range with 2 more km of torpedo running time makes a great difference in being able to fight without being detected, and the impressive AA array (for a DD) with the C hull configuration allows the ship to actually hurt aircraft that attempt to spot her for the enemy.  This means this is actually one of the best Destroyers in the game at doing the stealth torpedo attack mission, and is set up to do that mission almost exclusively.


 

The only time I have found this ship being less than great has been when it has been used (either forced to or by poor captains) for missions it isn't designed to do.  It isn't an anti-Destroyer ship, and will almost always come out heavily disadvantaged in any encounter with any other DD in the game.  It is also not a gunboat, and trying to use it like other DDs that have better gun arrangements will again leave the commander feeling as though the ship is underarmed.  Putting this ship into a situation where it is scouting for enemy DDs or firing its guns at enemies is asking for it to be hurt badly.


 

So, think of the Mutsuki as a specialist DD, configured to be optimized at the stealth hit-and-run of long-range torpedo attack on BBs.  It pays for its great ability to do this job by not being suited for other tasks of a DD, so keep it out of those if you can.  Also be aware that this is how IJN DDs from this point on are designed and work, so consider her the first time you are introduced to end-game IJN DD play.  If the mission and the requirements for it don't appeal with the Mutsuki, then you probably want to reconsider going any further down the line as this is what IJN DDs are built to do in the higher tiers.

Edited by Jakob_Knight

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I suck with Minekaze now that I got used to Mutsuki and the ships thereafter, it really is a big shift.

 

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The problem with Mutsuki, and Hatsuharu for that matter, are the torps a [edited]easy to dodge.

 

Wide, overlapping spread = major gaps that are easy to weave through, all miss

Tight, overlapping spread = slight course change, all miss, still easy enough to weave through

Wide, fanned spread = you can still weave a ship that is a mile wide through the gaps

Tight, fanned spread = slight course change, all miss

 

 

You know what the issue is? It's those triple launchers. The triple launchers have the same launch width as quad and quint launchers, which means the triple suffers from massive gaps between the two outer torps.

The fact that these torps are slow and easily detected don't help either.

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Mutsuki is not a bad ship. Sure, coming from Minekaze if feels like a letdown, but as Jakob_Knight said, it has a different mission. Area denial with long range torpedoes is powerful. It prepares you for the future (Fubuki can get 15km slow torpedoes or 10km fast ones).

 

Mutsuki's torpedoes are slow and easily visible/avoided by alert captains. Planes can spot them at a distance, and they stay spotted (this mechaninc should be improved a bit). It takes a while to adjust but it works. It took me many battles to learn it. I still like Minekaze way more, so I kept her, and sold Mutsuki when I finished the grind.

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I have to admit to wondering if all those who are frustrated with the Mutsuki are using only the stock torpedoes and trying to run her like a Minekaze.  This would cause frustration I could understand, as Mutsuki doesn't have the speed or reload time of the Minekaze, which would end up putting the ship in a harder position to have success with and lead to an impression the captain has been handed a demotion in being assigned to her.

 

For sure. 6km tubes when you're detected at 6.2km... Worst ever.

 

 

I suck with Minekaze now that I got used to Mutsuki and the ships thereafter, it really is a big shift.

 

 

I found it made me better at Minekaze. You're thinking about the same things but now you have a ship with fast tubes. I've been firing outside of torpedo range to guess where they'll be. Then because you reload faster you're in and out once you've corralled them.

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The fact that these torps are slow and easily detected don't help either.

 

The fact that they're detected and spread out is good if you realize that fear a weapon too.

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mutsuki is crap... its torps are crap.. its guns are crap.  Its just a crapDD.  Maybe its just becuase mutsuki is the transition dd where you basically have to stop ambushing people and become more area denial than assassin.

 

Edited by Skraeling

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The fact that they're detected and spread out is good if you realize that fear a weapon too.

 

nope, not scary at all.

The IJN torps get scary from Kagero and up, because they actually pick up a lot of speed.

 

The only reason one wouldn't push against an IJN DD, is because there are a bunch of BBs and cruisers that are covering it. As soon as those are dealt with, it's quite easy to roll IJN DDs.

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They're slow, they're detectable, you can avoid them easily.... but they still hurt a lot if they hit. It might not kill you, but chances are you're also managing incoming artillery at the same time. Getting hit by a torp is like getting spotted in Mutsuki. If you're not dead in ten seconds, the first one to see you is killing you in two salvos. So when you're two things that could kill you, you want to pay more attention to the immediate threat which is the incoming artillery. How do you pay less attention to torps? Just start going the other way and go back into binocular mode.

 

That's when you get your kills - on the second shot if you're not one of those guys who has to blow his entire load right away. Angle it right and you're chances are pretty good for hitting the other guy behind the guy you were aiming at. When it takes two minutes to load, you make sure your shots count even if it means you don't hit anything.

 

Just the fact that you're there is enough to have BBs and CVs crap in their pants. It's that you're going to kill them, it's that they better respect you or you will kill them. That's why I didn't even bother teching Incoming Fire on my commander. It's guaranteed two to three seconds after you've been detected and you sure as hell should be paying attention to your mini-map if you're in Mutsuki anyway so you're going to know where that fire is coming from.

I mean, this is the true assassin. You're the one orchestrating death even if it might not be directly from your own hands. Minekaze is kind of like that but the right word for tier V down is hitman, not assassin.

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Am I the only one or does the game always end just before I'm about to cash in big on a couple ships I've bee tracking?

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I have come to appreciate the Mut and the Hats for the job they do.  I Do play the stalker and the assassin in the IJN DDs, and I understand a few things. 

  1.  Slow kills.  I know it's a wargame, and wargames are aggressive.  But Being aggressive in the Mut and the Hats is a sure way to get detected and gunned in short order.  Where these two shine is being able to get around where the enemy fleet is engaging and going for the more vulnerable decks and BBs.  You have to be patient to get around there.  You want to avoid DDs and CAs.  These are not your targets, they are your killers. 

  2.  Save a salvo.  The best trick with "slow" torps is to scare a target into a salvo, or use the first salvo to see where they turn and target your second accordingly.  American BBs fall for this all the time, and even with the torp detection skill, it actually works better Against them.  They start turning, you adjust fire, and put the second volley into them before they can get the rudder back to the other direction. 

3.  The most frustrating part is getting behind the line, getting INTO great firing position, letting loose a salvo you KNOW is going to hit, and then the sim cuts out with victory...  I've been robbed of a kill MORE times by winning than anything else.

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I did well in Mutsuki but I hated every second I played it. It should be removed, made a premium, drop Hatsuharu in as VI and intro a new VII.

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I did well in Mutsuki but I hated every second I played it. It should be removed, made a premium, drop Hatsuharu in as VI and intro a new VII.

 

 

I don't see the Hatsuharu as being better than the Mutsuki, and the Mutsuki is an excellent ship if you have the temperament of a higher-tier IJN DD captain.  It is actually a very good ship for where it is in the tree, and it would be difficult to justify changing it to a Premium, especially since all that would do is cripple the ship to usability by only allowing it to use the stock torpedoes (which everyone I know of acknowledges do not allow this ship to function except in situations where it shouldn't be and can't usually get to).

 

 

If you are having troubles and hating every minute with the Mutsuki with the 10-km torpedoes, C-hull AA ability, and the excellent concealment capabilities, you probably aren't going to have a good time in any IJN DDs from that point on, as the Mutsuki is about the best it gets until you get to the Fubuki with 15-km torps (and even then, the Mutsuki still stacks up nicely when used in its intended role, and the advantages of all IJN DDs past this are counterbalanced by disadvantages the Mutsuki doesn't face).  This is an excellent ship for players to decide if the IJN DD line is for them, whereas the Hatsuharu simply is a downgrade in all areas rather than any actual introduction to top-tier IJN DDs.

Edited by Jakob_Knight
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Mutsuki isn't necessarily a crap ship but it's a crap ship for it's tier and doesn't fit in at all. 

 

It's basically a slower Minekaze with worst guns and statistically better torps that are unfortunately negated by massive reload times. It has no business being a tier 6.

 

 

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I finally finished my Mutsuki grind and unlocked Hatsuharu. Went into the grind having heard the horror stories, and carrying my own unfavorable experience gained from alpha testing Mutsuki. But in the end she treated me kindly and I leave the ship with a reformed view. The ship even gave me a 2 kill victory as a last match send off.

 

Upon review my Mutsuki stats across the matches I had are comfortably higher than server average. Whether it be because I didn't play it stock, or just blind dumb luck, I'd say it did alright. Certainly Mutsuki is not a good ship, and I do way way less average damage than I do with Minekaze. But neither has she come across as the complete disaster that reputation would have one believe. I never really felt that Mutsuki was useless, like I sometimes do with Yubari. She's kinda like a little terrier that wants to chew your foes to death, but usually lacks the means to do so since all the other doggies are more capable. Then sometimes you get those games where the stars aligned and Mutsuki bites their legs off.

 

Disappointing she is coming after the monster called Minekaze, but I for one came to view her as a bit of a lovable underdog. Glad to have finished grinding her, sold her and won't be looking back tbh. But it's been an acceptable ride, and the low point of the IJN DD line wasn't as low as I feared.

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The fact that they're detected and spread out is good if you realize that fear a weapon too.

 

Nobody fears a Mutsuki - the guns are garbage and the torpedoes are utterly worthless.

 

Besides, fear does me absolutely no good.  All it gets you is a huge ammo bill, a big repair bill, and no meaningful credit or XP income to make it worth your time.

 

Get Wargaming to start rewarding us for anything other than pure damage, and then we'll talk.  Until then, they can take their "fear factor" and "area denial", and shove them where the sun doesn't shine.

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I did well in Mutsuki but I hated every second I played it. It should be removed, made a premium, drop Hatsuharu in as VI and intro a new VII.

 

No way. I finally just went up to Hatsuharu. No way. Same torps with a little more HP. A little bit better acceleration but slower rudder. You're detection is at 6.7km and the AA spec is nowhere near. I think this is the real downgrade in the IJN DD line.

 

Basically they took Mutsuki and said... "okay, so you've learned how to play smart. you think you're a hot shot now, don't you? try being sneaky how with a longer detection, less AA, and a slow rudder. you can have your four guns back though... lol."

 

Also... came here to gloat. Crowning moment so far with Mutsuki. Lost this one just now on captures but I survived the match outnumbered with just me and a BB against 7 ships. We took out 3 BBs, and 2 CAs. The game ended with me unscathed and a flooding Pensacola and a half HP North Carolina. Even took out Bucky early on.

 

 

 GxxxOT1.png

qADHgjq.png

 

Edited by tooboku
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nope, not scary at all.

The IJN torps get scary from Kagero and up, because they actually pick up a lot of speed.

 

The only reason one wouldn't push against an IJN DD, is because there are a bunch of BBs and cruisers that are covering it. As soon as those are dealt with, it's quite easy to roll IJN DDs.

 

Torps are always scary. Doesn't matter what tier. That's why you're always the first to get shot if you're ever detected. :P

I don't know though... I think there might be some RNG smiling on Mutsuki when she actually does hit something. Now one dies right away but the chance for uncontrollable flooding is crazy. I've seen my torps take a lot of people down to like 7-12% health on impact but then a minute later I hear a horn saying it was my kill.

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Torps are always scary. Doesn't matter what tier. That's why you're always the first to get shot if you're ever detected. :P

I don't know though... I think there might be some RNG smiling on Mutsuki when she actually does hit something. Now one dies right away but the chance for uncontrollable flooding is crazy. I've seen my torps take a lot of people down to like 7-12% health on impact but then a minute later I hear a horn saying it was my kill.

 

Mutsuki's torpedoes aren't scary in the least.  They're way too slow, too poorly spaced, and spotted LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before you're in any real danger.  

 

Seeing Mutsuki's on the enemy team is little more than a sign that I don't need to worry about Destroyer-launched torpedoes.

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