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Mesrith

Post-patch Battleship Damage Averages

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Comparing average damage totals for battleships, courtesy of Warships Today.  Note that even for just yesterday's data most ships have thousands of battles to sample, with only a few less common ships having less.  Only 8 ships have less than 1,000 battles yesterday, and only 2 have less than 250.


 

SHIP Overall 2 Weeks Yesterday
Yamato 93,885 88,618 79,894
Montana 78,623 67,650 67,787
Iowa 63,938 55,599 51,693
Izumo 59,916 53,935 47,130
Amagi 59,467 59,222 53,777
North Carolina 51,010 48,300 43,161
Tirpitz 46,850 49,430 46,100
Nagato 48,781 49,324 43,676
Colorado 39,118 42,455 40,737
Fuso 44,990 44,676 41,600
New Mexico 38,694 37,209 34,699
Warspite 35,535 43,253 40,956
Kongo 33,901 33,215 30,843
New York 29,462 26,658 25,572
Myogi 21,712 23,664 22,753
Wyoming 26,883 27,621 28,418
Arkansas Beta 30,285 37,458 38,040
Ishizuchi 24,045 26,762 25,311
Kawachi 17,663 18,441 18,082
South Carolina 17,552 16,642 15,597
 

A quick glance at other classes shows that:

  • Carriers are down (really down) across the board.
  • Cruisers are slightly up for some, slightly down for others, with the only big change being a large damage gain for the Atago.  The German cruisers that are AP-centric haven't been affected the way I'd have thought.
  • US destroyers are up a bit on average, with a couple of outliers.

 

You can go to Warships Today to view the other classes or take a look for yourself.

 

It's still early, but I think there's enough here to agree with the common idea that battleship AP (and citadels specifically) has taken a hit, whether it was intentional or not.  By Wednesday we can revisit this using Warships Today's 1-week filter and get a better picture.

 

UPDATE:

 

Great video from the EU forums.  Credit to clancy774.

 

 

It basically confirms what many of us have noticed over the past few days.

 

  • Citadel hits against cruisers at a close broadside are rare now.
  • Citadel hits against cruisers at an angle or at a further distance are still possible, possibly more likely than before.

 

Something's going on with the ricochet angles change.  If you shoot at a close broadside, your shell is nearly always getting pushed out the other side of the ship for an overpen.  If you shoot at an angle, there's more ship to travel through, increasing the chance that the shell will get deflected down into the citadel or at least do a 33% standard pen.  If you shoot at greater distances, your shell's downward angle could carry into the citadel instead of passing through.  Battleship vs. battleship seems much less affected by the changes.

 

I can think of a few different ways to adapt to these changes, but I think I'll just wait until tomorrow and see what official statement comes out about whether this was intended or not.  There's plenty of discussion about it on both the RU and EU forums also, so I'd expect some WG staff member to say something tomorrow.  Battleship average damage yesterday either dropped (high tiers) or held steady (mid/low tiers) compared to the previous day, but there's enough panic going around that there's probably a lot of self-selection happening right now with players avoiding playing their high-tier BBs.

Edited by Mesrith
  • Cool 7

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150mm C/25 and C/28 Tr. armor piercing took a massive hit in 5.1, along with my BB AP's reliability plummeting. 

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that is depressing....

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Do only I get a feeling that now it is VERY hard to citadel a cruiser with a BB when she is broadside?

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Do only I get a feeling that now it is VERY hard to citadel a cruiser with a BB when she is broadside?

 

You are not alone.

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It's not just the damage - I feel like I am missing 75% more shots than I normally would.  Has made BBs effectively unplayable for me.  :( 

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Well our speculation was very nearly right on point. High tier BBs took a hit while mid tiers seemed to function more or less properly. Also via training room we have found that AP shells don't seem to citadel broadside cruisers. I had 3 pensa's at 10km for maybe 10 salvos and came up empty. As soon as they decided they had enough of my 5k damage salvos and turned away, I citadel'd two of them and killed them...wow. One other Pensa that game did the intelligent thing when he was broadside and saw my shells coming and turned. A stray shell hit him as he was perpendicular to me and it citadel'd him. This just isn't right. Taking evasive maneuvers is now more likely to get you killed in a CA, while being braindead rewards you with better survivability????

 

I also killed a broadside colorado at 7km but did not hit a single citadel, I got decent damage most salvos but that is very strange.

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Do only I get a feeling that now it is VERY hard to citadel a cruiser with a BB when she is broadside?

 

Not only that but you're lucky to do over 1000 damage to a CA with a BB broadside within 2-8k range.

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I feel like this can't be intentional because it completely breaks the balance. Now CAs have defensive fire so they are good against CVs. They have infinite survivability against BBs because they take nearly no damage. Some of them have the repair party for even MORE survivability. They are already the counter to DDs. The biggest threat to a CA is another CA with BBs being countered by...literally everything.

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I feel like this can't be intentional because it completely breaks the balance. Now CAs have defensive fire so they are good against CVs. They have infinite survivability against BBs because they take nearly no damage. Some of them have the repair party for even MORE survivability. They are already the counter to DDs. The biggest threat to a CA is another CA with BBs being countered by...literally everything.

 

I agree, now it is impossible to play BB vs adequate CA driver. Not to mention that many CAs have torps. Kinda [edited]patch.

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I thought I was just rusty after taking a long break from the game.  Then I had a game where I got surrounded by a couple cruisers in my Fuso.  I put 29 shells into them, all AP, all fired between 10-12km.  Not a single citadel, a majority of the shells overpenned.  Of those 29 hits, I had a total of 32k damage done.

 

It was such a joke, the cruisers were just sailing straight with their broadsides to me.  The kind of situation which was a multiple citadel, single salvo kill in the past.

 

Something has definitely changed. 

 

I got a promo for 3 days of Premium, and I think I'm going to play it out and see if I can adjust. 

 

 

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Yea, unless every single BB driver had an off day, I'd say it's pretty darned conclusive that the armor angle change is messing with citadels. Now the question is whether or not it was intended.

 

I wish I spoke Russian, because I'd love to know what players on the RU forums are saying about the changes, since if we're being realistic, that is the group that has the most input how the game gets changed.

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Thank you wargaming, for making your iconic ship class...LESS effective. 

 

 

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Well our speculation was very nearly right on point. High tier BBs took a hit while mid tiers seemed to function more or less properly. Also via training room we have found that AP shells don't seem to citadel broadside cruisers. I had 3 pensa's at 10km for maybe 10 salvos and came up empty. As soon as they decided they had enough of my 5k damage salvos and turned away, I citadel'd two of them and killed them...wow. One other Pensa that game did the intelligent thing when he was broadside and saw my shells coming and turned. A stray shell hit him as he was perpendicular to me and it citadel'd him. This just isn't right. Taking evasive maneuvers is now more likely to get you killed in a CA, while being braindead rewards you with better survivability????

 

I also killed a broadside colorado at 7km but did not hit a single citadel, I got decent damage most salvos but that is very strange.

 

This is funny because in my cruisers the only times I've been citadeled since the patch were at pretty significant angles.

 

I normally don't show my broadside, but still, seemed coincidental ;)

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It's still early, but I think there's enough here to agree with the common idea that battleship AP (and citadels specifically) has taken a hit, whether it was intentional or not.  By Wednesday we can revisit this using Warships Today's 1-week filter and get a better picture.

 

First, thanks for doing the leg work. Second, those averages (even pre-patch) are rather pathetic... I feel kinda bad for complaining that I'm not nuking targets off the sea anymore. 

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I too I observed most of my cits being from very extreme angles bow or stern, but almost none from broadside. To me it seems like someone used a sine function instead of a cosine function somewhere.

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Definitely think something's up as well. I fired so many shots at a Murmansk (broadside) with my Nagato, at medium and close range, and they all overpenetrated with the exception of one citadel hit. I'll have to watch the replay again, but I think I also overpenetrated a Cleveland in CQC as well.

Edit: I watched the replay again and I overpenetrated a Nicholas (which makes sense), a Murmansk, a Konigsberg, and a Cleveland, which, apparently makes sense since the 16" shell should punch right through and overpenetrate in real life (or so one of my friends says). Kinda wish if this was intended WG would let us know in clearer detail.

 

Edited by Darksamus224

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