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SimiaStoicus

Which BB to keep at tier 8? Amagi or NC?

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Can't decide which to sell. Would keep both but need the cash. Had good and bad games in both but amagi was worse experience, mostly cuz of stock grind to save free speech to rid of izumo sooner. Like play style of both but leaning towards NC. Forum opinion would be appreciative. Which u would keep and why?

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Keep the Amagi. Iowa does everything the NC does but better, and the Izumo is just, well, painful. It's the reason why I abandoned the IJN BB line in CBT.

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Amagi is in almost everything the better ship. A keeper. I'm considering selling my NC.

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North Carolina!

 

Tough armor angling approach with six guns, great anti air, fine speed with good maneuverability. An all around good ship with robustness and dependable reliability for multiple scenarios.

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I've found the North Carolina to be really good, and I've destroyed Amagis in 1v1s. Just angle your armor and forget that you have a third turret.

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It's really a preference type of thing. I prefer the two triple turrets on the bow over the layout the Amagi has in general so i plan on keeping the North Carolina, 

 

side note: Yes, i know i don't have the Amagi currently, i have played hundreds of battles in it though. :)

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I only had happiness with NC . Amazing ship on every aspect . I sold it to buy the Iowa , and I'm going to get it back.

Edited by HARDCORE_BR

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NC is generally the better ship, better AA, better armor, and the guns fire the Super heavy shells, so they have considerably more penetrative power than Amagi. NC can pen armor that Amagi's shells will just bounce off. Plus NC doesn't have a derpy amidships turret. And NC has better range, just an all round better ship in my opinion. Amagi really just has better speed and secondaries, but not much else.

Edited by ryuukei8569

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AMAGI. Its way more versatile, fun and powerful than the NC. (Which is still good, but the Iowa is just upgraded in every way)

Amagi Overall Results

Battles    55
Victories    38 (69%)
Battles survived    44
Damage caused    4,453,243
Warships destroyed    64
Aircraft destroyed    246
Base capture    0
Base defense    24

Average Score per Battle

Experience    2,011.29
Damage caused    80,968.05
Warships destroyed    1.16
Aircraft destroyed    4.47
Main battery hit ratio    25%
Base capture    0.00
Base defense    0.44

Highest Score

Experience    3,119
Damage caused    186,595
Warships destroyed    5
Aircraft destroyed    33

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NC is generally the better ship, better AA, better armor, and the guns fire the Super heavy shells, so they have considerably more penetrative power than Amagi. NC can pen armor that Amagi's shells will just bounce off. Plus NC doesn't have a derpy amidships turret. And NC has better range, just an all round better ship in my opinion. Amagi really just has better speed and secondaries, but not much else.

 

Plus you can actually visit the NC, see and touch all the cool stuff....  just sayin'... ;p
Edited by Mat_Helm
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I've found the North Carolina to be really good, and I've destroyed Amagis in 1v1s. Just angle your armor and forget that you have a third turret.

 

...which is why the Amagi is the better ship.  You can angle your armor and still use all 10 guns.  The Amagi does everything better except for main battery range and AA rating, but the AA is still good enough that I've gotten Clear Skies in it.

 

Amagi averages quite a bit more damage per game than both North Carolina and Tirpitz.  I personally love the Amagi, and for most players it will be the better ship.  North Carolina is still good, but as others have said, the Iowa will play similarly but better.

 

NC is generally the better ship, better AA, better armor, and the guns fire the Super heavy shells, so they have considerably more penetrative power than Amagi. NC can pen armor that Amagi's shells will just bounce off. Plus NC doesn't have a derpy amidships turret. And NC has better range, just an all round better ship in my opinion. Amagi really just has better speed and secondaries, but not much else.

 

Huh?  The Amagi's penetration is great once you have the B hull, and the turret angles are great, even the middle turret.  A 1v1 between Amagi and North Carolina is usually 10 guns vs 6 if both stay fully angled.

Edited by Mesrith

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...which is why the Amagi is the better ship.  You can angle your armor and still use all 10 guns.  The Amagi does everything better except for main battery range and AA rating, but the AA is still good enough that I've gotten Clear Skies in it.

 

Amagi averages quite a bit more damage per game than both North Carolina and Tirpitz.  I personally love the Amagi, and for most players it will be the better ship.  North Carolina is still good, but as others have said, the Iowa will play similarly but better.

 

 

Huh?  The Amagi's penetration is great once you have the B hull, and the turret angles are great, even the middle turret.  A 1v1 between Amagi and North Carolina is usually 10 guns vs 6 if both stay fully angled.

 

People whom only have 6 turrets unmasked with north carolina arent playing it right. a 45 degree angle is more than enough to deflect all of Amagi's shots. Plus there is a little thing called using your rudder to unmask your rear turret long enough to fire, then turn again to give a narrower target. It also mean you don't travel in straight lines and are harder to hit. Just because your a battleship doesn't mean you cant maneuver in combat. Plus you never want your bow pointed directly on to your target, that's asking for a citadel through the front. And because of that a steeper angle is not necessarily better. at a 45 degree angle, the belt armor of North Carolina can deflect Yamato's shells even at close range, you don't really need to angle any more than that. People whom say the North Carolina is weaker than Amagi aren't playing it right, sorry but that is how it is.

 

Amagi's Damage gets better with B hull, Armor penetration doesn't change.

 

Only reason my Amagi stats are better than North Carolina, is i played Amagi a lot later than North Carolina and had a much better idea of what i was doing than when i played NC.

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I'm sort of the same position, deciding whether to buy the Amagi or NC first (i'd skip right to Hull B on either vessel)

 

The main difference being I have a third choice - Mogami

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The amagi is hot garbage and can't carry a game for the life of it, you have dogshit armor compounded with citadels all over your ship and a really long model with shtty AA meaning you're a prime torp target aswell. Then you get lumped in with t8 matchmaking where everything around you has proper armor schemes so they bounce every shot and you eat sht. Battle cruisers are awful and there's a reason they never gained traction

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Amagi's Damage gets better with B hull, Armor penetration doesn't change.

 

Previous forum posts and my own personal experience has always led me to believe that getting the Type 91 shell is a big boost in penetration for the Nagato, Amagi, and Izumo.  Since shell penetration isn't a stat we have access to, I'm interested in whether you have a source for this claim.

 

Everything else is personal experience.  I think the North Carolina is "good" regardless of how it's played.  I understand that you can use your rudder and swing your stern around, and I'm more than happy to stop firing full salvos if you're waiting for that opportunity.  I still much prefer the Amagi, but to each their own.

 

EDIT:  It's almost impossible to claim that the Type 91 shell isn't a penetration boost.  The Izumo won't penetrate anything until you unlock the B hull, but once you do and you've got the Type 91 it's fine.  It's the same shell as the Amagi.

Edited by Mesrith

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I prefer the North Carolina over the Amagi.  Honestly, it isn't even close for me.  Amagi's faster, but with no armor to speak of at all.  It's a battle cruiser, with all the good and bad that comes with that.  Personally, I'd trade 5 knots of speed on her for some actual armor.  Sure she has ten guns, but with those citadels you can be very vulnerable, and often times it's because while you're doing well and fighting right, the rest of your team wasn't and a far flank collapses and you find yourself with enemies both ahead and off your side.

 

North Carolina's gun layout takes a bit of getting used to.  Using all three turrets at once is just not always a smart move.  If you can expose that third turret safely, great.  If not you just stick with the front two and play it totally safe.  If you don't even try to show it, then that boat really is hard to hurt.  The North Carolina also is a far better AA platform.  Not that the Amagi is bad, just that the North Carolina stands out as a legitimate threat to planes, one of the first battleships to really pull that off I think.

 

I'll be keeping my North Carolina when it comes time to get an Iowa.  As for my Amagi, I'm not sure.  I'm 45k off the Izumo and I'm still on the fence about the Amagi staying in my fleet.

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The amagi is hot garbage and can't carry a game for the life of it, you have dogshit armor compounded with citadels all over your ship and a really long model with shtty AA meaning you're a prime torp target aswell. Then you get lumped in with t8 matchmaking where everything around you has proper armor schemes so they bounce every shot and you eat sht. Battle cruisers are awful and there's a reason they never gained traction

 

Looking through somebody's profile it's pretty obvious the real problem with the Amagi is between keyboard and chair.

 

I haven't been through the USN BB grind and just about finished with the Amagi grind, but still have a pretty objective idea on how they compare. Same as with the other USN -vs- IJ N BBs in that in a ranged fight the IJN has a bit of an advantage due to shot pattern, but once the range starts closing the USN ship can gain the advantage *if* he angles properly.  Not sure who's claiming the NC auto bounces because I've Citadel'd many an NC angled on me, and if he does angle I just aim at the base of his superstructure and score. The bounce angle on the Amagi just seems to be a lot tighter -vs- the more generous Tirpitz and NC.

 

AA debate is stupid because Essex or Midway driver is going to laugh at either and likely sink you anyways. Amagi's secondary though has saved my rear end many times, and in a recent game killed both a NC *and* Myoko that charged me on cap. Now, both ships were heavily damaged, but my secondaries killed both while I was focused on a Mahan that was the real threat. I was frankly astonished and so was the NC driver at how nasty the secondaries were. Obviously a healthy NC and Amagi brawling at short range aren't going to bring secondaries into the equation 99% of the time.

 

In my Mogami the Amagi is the scarier BB - period. Amagi's have one shot me at ridiculous ranges more than any other ship and that's while pulling full evasive. Both the NC and Amagi seem to have about the same HE resistance (both less than the tirpitz). I rate both ship equal myself, but with different strengths. Really too bad WoWs developers can't balance high tier BB's with the same care. 

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Previous forum posts and my own personal experience has always led me to believe that getting the Type 91 shell is a big boost in penetration for the Nagato, Amagi, and Izumo.  Since shell penetration isn't a stat we have access to, I'm interested in whether you have a source for this claim.

 

Everything else is personal experience.  I think the North Carolina is "good" regardless of how it's played.  I understand that you can use your rudder and swing your stern around, and I'm more than happy to stop firing full salvos if you're waiting for that opportunity.  I still much prefer the Amagi, but to each their own.

 

EDIT:  It's almost impossible to claim that the Type 91 shell isn't a penetration boost.  The Izumo won't penetrate anything until you unlock the B hull, but once you do and you've got the Type 91 it's fine.  It's the same shell as the Amagi.

 

But in comparison to the Mark 8 super heavy shell, the Type 91 still does not have as much penetrative power. The Mark 8 is still the all round better shell. Simple physics is enough to show why. The type 91 weighs in at 2249 pounds, vs the 2700 pounds of the Mk. 8 SHS. at 10,000 yards, velocity on the type 91 is 610 mps, vs 579 mps for the Mk. 8, and the velocity advantage drops off more the further the shells go, because sheer inertia of the heavier Mk.8 shell means it loses less velocity. Other aspects of shell design, such as the AP cap help keep the shell from breaking when hitting armor, but the biggest determining factor to armor penetration, is putting the greatest amount of kinetic energy over the smallest possible area.

 

Also you missed my point, a 45-50 degree angle for North Carolina can bounce Yamato's shells even at close range, 45-50 degree angle is more than enough to bounce anything Amagi can throw. I maneuver constantly to make myself a harder target and screw up peoples lead, which North Carolina has an advantage in this department by being shorter and more maneuverable, I don't stop maneuvering in combat unless I am forced to stern chase someone, or no one is bothering to shoot at me at all. Faster turning turrets are also really helpful in this department. And the only reason my own Amagi stats are better, was at the time I was playing North Carolina regularly, my aim wasn't as good, and I dint maneuver the way I do now. Rudder shift on the ship is the same yes, but North Carolina has a tighter turning circle by 110 m. For someone like me, whom maneuvers my battleships like cruisers, that's a big advantage. Its also the reason why my tirpitz is the fourth highest average damage ship I have, outdone only by Iowa, Montana, and Yamato.

 

So really you look at the hard advantages, North Carolina has better maneuverability, better armor, longer gun range, and better gun penetration. Shorter length also gives a shorter citadel.

Amagi has one more gun and better speed. AA on both ships is good enough to stop an Essex when used properly, so I'm not going to count that one for either ship.

 

Yeah I get it, some people do better in Amagi, but for those whom fire and maneuver, North Carolina is the better ship.

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AA debate is stupid because Essex or Midway driver is going to laugh at either and likely sink you anyways.

 

Actually I disagree on that, I've played both ships and beaten back the attacks from Essex's using both ships, Midway's, not so much, but I find North Carolina sometimes fare better against midway than the higher tier BB's because her better maneuverability and shorter length means she can dodge more torps, and the only BB that sometimes fare's better is Montana and her oodles of AA. Iowa's Yamato, Izumo and Amagi against midway are all just sitting targets.
Edited by ryuukei8569

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But in comparison to the Mark 8 super heavy shell, the Type 91 still does not have as much penetrative power. The Mark 8 is still the all round better shell. Simple physics is enough to show why. The type 91 weighs in at 2249 pounds, vs the 2700 pounds of the Mk. 8 SHS. at 10,000 yards, velocity on the type 91 is 610 mps, vs 579 mps for the Mk. 8, and the velocity advantage drops off more the further the shells go, because sheer inertia of the heavier Mk.8 shell means it loses less velocity. Other aspects of shell design, such as the AP cap help keep the shell from breaking when hitting armor, but the biggest determining factor to armor penetration, is putting the greatest amount of kinetic energy over the smallest possible area.

 

Yeah I get it, some people do better in Amagi, but for those whom fire and maneuver, North Carolina is the better ship.

 

Ok, so you're using "real life things that should, I hope, translate to the game".  You've also apparently switched the statement away from "the B hull doesn't increase shell pen on Amagi" to "the NC has better shell pen than the Amagi."  I'm not interested in that discussion.  The Type 91 shell increases shell penetration.

 

As for the last sentence, that's a ridiculous generalization.  Just say that you personally prefer the NC and move along without implying that one ship requires a higher skill set.  The two are about as similar as the USN/IJN battleship lines ever get.

Edited by Mesrith
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Ok, so you're using "real life things that should, I hope, translate to the game".  You've also apparently switched the statement away from "the B hull doesn't increase shell pen on Amagi" to "the NC has better shell pen than the Amagi."  I'm not interested in that discussion.  The Type 91 shell increases shell penetration.

 

As for the last sentence, that's a ridiculous generalization.  Just say that you personally prefer the NC and move along without implying that one ship requires a higher skill set.  The two are about as similar as the USN/IJN battleship lines ever get.

 

The Mk 8 does translate into the game, you know why, because it is fully possible to citadel a Montana and Yamato at 18k in game, which puts North Carolina's guns exactly where empirical formula says the penetration would be for those shells, which means, for the most part, save for maybe a few ships, armor penetration pretty closely follows where the real world formula's say they would be. Its not, I how it translates in the game, because they have translated in the game. Only real exceptions seems to be for the guns that where never built in the first place, like the ones on Zao. The Mk. 8 SHS is one of the reasons Izumo struggles so badly against Iowa in the first place.

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