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Kitsunelegend

Signal flags for co-op players

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Was thinking recently... for players that play co-op only, like myself, the grind can be...quite difficult at times...but for the most part, we play co-op only for a few different reasons. Whether it be to get away from the toxic kiddies that play pvp, or to have a better connection to the server, or just to have a more laid back and relaxed time. But the biggest problem co-op has is the difficulty of getting and staying at higher tiers. You pubby players think the grind is hard with normal xp and credit rewards? Try only playing co-op. 

 

So I thought, why not just give co-op players a little bit of love. Give them a chance to either buy or win some type of co-op only single flags, that can only be used in co-op, but help make the grind a little less painful. It wouldn't be p2w (because bots dont give a s*** if you have all the money in the world, they just want to sink your sorry butt) and allow co-op players to fully enjoy the game without the worry of taking forever to get to that one ship they really want...

 

There is probably a lot of more stuff I wanted to add to this, but I am currently falling asleep at my keyboard so I'll just add it later. (and also, take this post and any and all errors in it with a grain of salt) Let me know if you think this idea would be something you'd like. :)

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Does that mean the regular flags cannot be won or used in co-op?  If so, I never realized that before, and therefore, I don't see why your proposal isn't valid.

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As long as they made the flags just as hard to acquire. It's much easier to get a flag for just about anything in coop, because the bots are so dumb. Close Quarters Expert, Die-Hard...First Blood is virtually guaranteed if you're trying. And I imagine Confederate and High Caliber are easy if you're playing a BB or CV.

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Does that mean the regular flags cannot be won or used in co-op?  If so, I never realized that before, and therefore, I don't see why your proposal isn't valid.

 

Flags as they are now can't be won in co-op, but they can certainly be used there.  I always have to remember to dismount the harder to come by ones before they accidently get "wasted" in a low stakes PvE battle.  It would be cool to see some co-op exclusive flags, though.
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As long as they made the flags just as hard to acquire. It's much easier to get a flag for just about anything in coop, because the bots are so dumb. Close Quarters Expert, Die-Hard...First Blood is virtually guaranteed if you're trying. And I imagine Confederate and High Caliber are easy if you're playing a BB or CV.

 

You cannot actually win flags in co-op more currently. And since I know of several people who are co-op exclusive players, like myself, having a way to win them or purchase them would be nice. Of coarse, having them only able to be used in co-op stop people from being able to spam co-op to win them as well and then use them in pvp.

 

Does that mean the regular flags cannot be won or used in co-op?  If so, I never realized that before, and therefore, I don't see why your proposal isn't valid.

 

You can still use them in co-op, you just cannot win them in co-op. (you can even get the rewards either unless you play pvp) This is why I'm asking for co-op only flags, for those players who only play co-op mode. 

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 A simple solution would be to sell "Co-Op only" flag packages at a nominal cost so they could be used there. That way, it would be a win-win for anyone interested including WG who would profit from the flags.

But I can't see awarding flags in Co Op. It removes the incentive to play PvP.

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 A simple solution would be to sell "Co-Op only" flag packages at a nominal cost so they could be used there. That way, it would be a win-win for anyone interested including WG who would profit from the flags.

But I can't see awarding flags in Co Op. It removes the incentive to play PvP.

 

If those flags were still co-op only, you wouldn't be able to use them in pvp, so you'd still have to play pvp if you wanted flags for pvp. But maybe you're also correct in that WG should put them up for sale as well, and keep them up for sale. simple $10 flag packages like they had would go a long way for those people who play co-op only. Really...main thing Im asking for is some more love for co-op players. WG did an amazing thing by adding co-op into this game, they should really think about expanding on it some more. :)

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 A simple solution would be to sell "Co-Op only" flag packages at a nominal cost so they could be used there. That way, it would be a win-win for anyone interested including WG who would profit from the flags.

But I can't see awarding flags in Co Op. It removes the incentive to play PvP.

 

The problem is that, like it or not, WG has established Co-Op as the "training" area of the game. A player can't access PvP until they've earned enough experience in PvE to "advance" to PvP. The implications of this are tremendous.

 

For one, it establishes a hierarchy in the game that leads to toxicity, where PvP is the "real" game and PvE is kiddieland. I've seen some threads recently in the forums railing against this exactly. Second, by making PvE the training area, they restricted it to not be able to earn achievements and flags, as well as throttling earnings, as you're only supposed to be in there to get used to the controls and maybe test a new ship, and then go back to PvP; allowing achievements in PvE as it is now would lead to problems for WG as people would jump in to PvE to stomp on the AI for flags, then return to PvP to use them for much bigger credit/XP gains.

 

Simply selling co-op specific flags won't work well, as then you get the legitimate complaints that it is a cash grab. But allowing achievements in PvE brings about the host of problems already mentioned. The best and toughest fix is to put PvE and PvP on an equal footing, thereby making both game modes allow similar credit/XP gains and enabling achievements in both modes. Which is hard because the AI is, well, AI.

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You cannot actually win flags in co-op more currently. And since I know of several people who are co-op exclusive players, like myself, having a way to win them or purchase them would be nice. Of coarse, having them only able to be used in co-op stop people from being able to spam co-op to win them as well and then use them in pvp.

 

No, I meant that if you could earn them in coop, they should not be tied to achievements, because achievements like high caliber would be much easier to get in coop and just lead to flag farming by everyone.

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The problem is that, like it or not, WG has established Co-Op as the "training" area of the game. A player can't access PvP until they've earned enough experience in PvE to "advance" to PvP. The implications of this are tremendous.

 

For one, it establishes a hierarchy in the game that leads to toxicity, where PvP is the "real" game and PvE is kiddieland. I've seen some threads recently in the forums railing against this exactly. Second, by making PvE the training area, they restricted it to not be able to earn achievements and flags, as well as throttling earnings, as you're only supposed to be in there to get used to the controls and maybe test a new ship, and then go back to PvP; allowing achievements in PvE as it is now would lead to problems for WG as people would jump in to PvE to stomp on the AI for flags, then return to PvP to use them for much bigger credit/XP gains.

 

Simply selling co-op specific flags won't work well, as then you get the legitimate complaints that it is a cash grab. But allowing achievements in PvE brings about the host of problems already mentioned. The best and toughest fix is to put PvE and PvP on an equal footing, thereby making both game modes allow similar credit/XP gains and enabling achievements in both modes. Which is hard because the AI is, well, AI.

 

I see this argument quite a lot, and must say that a lot of times, the AI is actually smarter than a lot of players in pvp. pretty much all bots will zig-zag and make it hard to hit them. They will start turning to evade torps the moment they see them, and tend to focus fire DDs like they are the most dangerous thing in the game.

 

If WG really wanted co-op to be the "training room" they wouldn't allow credits and xp to be earned at higher tiers. Either that, or they would implement the actual training room and make it official. Fact of the matter is, co-op is its one game mode now, there are people who only co-op type games, that would have otherwise never have even touched this game if it didn't have it. I'm one of those players. I dont really care for pvp type games, but I do love naval games, so learning that this game has that option, made me want to download and play it, and spend money on it. If it didn't have co-op, I would have left this game ages ago and not spent a dime on it, like I did with WoT. (only thing I actually bought in WoT was the fury sherman when they had that movie special going on)

 

  allowing achievements in PvE as it is now would lead to problems for WG as people would jump in to PvE to stomp on the AI for flags, then return to PvP to use them for much bigger credit/XP gains.

 

Like I said above, the flags would only be usable in co-op mode, meaning you wouldn't be able to bring them into pvp and use them, so there wouldn't be any unfair advantage of people using them in pvp.

 

 Simply selling co-op specific flags won't work well, as then you get the legitimate complaints that it is a cash grab.

 

A simple $10 package of like, 50 of each flag would be something I would GLADLY purchase multiple of. I would not see it as a cash grab, but as a way to help support this game, along with the occasional premium time and such. Spending some pocket change every so often to get a credit and xp boost for co-op would be something I'm sure a lot of people who play co-op only would love.

 

 

No, I meant that if you could earn them in coop, they should not be tied to achievements, because achievements like high caliber would be much easier to get in coop and just lead to flag farming by everyone.

 

How do you get high caliber again? I forget how to, and in the matches I've played in pvp since the flags were added, I've never actually gotten it....like, ever.

 

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High Caliber is earned by doing damage equal to 20% (I think?) of the entire enemy team HP pool. It's not easy to get, to be sure.

 

Edit...maybe as said above, it's 40%. In any case, I know I have only received it twice. Ever.

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Does that mean the regular flags cannot be won or used in co-op?  If so, I never realized that before, and therefore, I don't see why your proposal isn't valid.

 

Right you are Kenny!!

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Do 40% of the enemy team's hp in damage. Would be much easier in coop.

 

Same with Confederate.

 

I haven't played co-op much, but I actually found it hard to do a lot of damage because the game was much faster paced.  All my teammates would be rushing to destroy the bots and unless you're just as fast, you get table scraps left.  I found that when I played with a slow BB it was actually harder to do a lot of damage because the matches were over more quickly.

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I'm against giving flags for co-op. Main focus is PVP. Where they should remain.

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I see this argument quite a lot, and must say that a lot of times, the AI is actually smarter than a lot of players in pvp. pretty much all bots will zig-zag and make it hard to hit them. They will start turning to evade torps the moment they see them, and tend to focus fire DDs like they are the most dangerous thing in the game.

 

 

 

All well and good, but they're still just bots; the limits on their creativity are reflected in most players having a much higher win rate in PvE than PvP.

 

 If WG really wanted co-op to be the "training room" they wouldn't allow credits and xp to be earned at higher tiers. Either that, or they would implement the actual training room and make it official.

 

I'm not saying WG has an official policy that PvE is the training area only suitable for new players, else it would be set up how you say or worse (like limiting PvE to low tier ships). I'm saying WG made conscious decisions, like limiting credit/XP gains and putting all new players in PvE, that unintentionally put PvE in the role of "newb room" that many players abandon once they unlock Random Battles, only coming back at high tiers to test out a new ship. I'd personally love it if a new training room was added with practice scenarios and PvE was unshackled from the role it is pigeonholed into.

 

 A simple $10 package of like, 50 of each flag would be something I would GLADLY purchase multiple of.

 

That's great, but by definition that means you're not the player that would be crying foul about it. Look at Tirpitz/Fujin; the players that were ok with the bundle/pricing were not the ones complaining and calling WG greedy. Since the PvE grind is tremendously worse than PvP, putting flags for sale to lessen that is guaranteed to raise a ruckus, and I'm not convinced there's enough players who share your viewpoint to make the headache worth WG's while.

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I would support flags for Co-op. So far Co-op is a far friendlier place. I take my Zuiho there and people actually thank you and bother to help defend if a DD gets too close. If it wasn't for the crap XP and credits, it would be the only mode I'd bother to play.

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I say no to flags in coop would be too easy to get,  try playing PvP. 

 

I have tried playing PvP, but the level of stupidity and toxicity in pvp matches is far to high for my liking. This is why myself and others prefer co-op mode only. Its more laid back and relaxing and people are actually rather nice, even when someone accidentally torps a friendly, apologies are abound.

 

All I'm suggesting is making a set of flags that can only be used in co-op to help alleviate the grind a bit. 

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I think some co-op only flags could be a nice addition, but I think that the feat to earn them should be tougher than the respective feat performed in Random Battles because Co-op AI's are not as difficult as (many) human opponents.

 

It would also help if flags from random then could not be used in co-op (and vice versa).  I wouldn't want to waste my random battle flags in PvE from the auto-resupply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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