13 [OPGS] LOVESOCK307 Beta Testers 61 posts 7,511 battles Report post #1 Posted October 21, 2015 neg rep me all you want, I frankly dont care and wont lose any sleep over it. How manual drop torps without more balancing have made it this far into the game bewilders me. The 99 AA rating on the Montana is literally worthless even with upgrades against torpedo bombers. Ill take 5-6 torps and kill maybe 1-2 TB before the drop. If those planes fly within 1 km of a Montana, every single one of them should be destroyed to balance out the multiple torpedo strikes. If you want guaranteed torp strikes then it comes at a cost. I played Cv's in closed beta and agree it takes skill but it in my opinion its overpowered. VC's should pay a greater price if they want the guaranteed multi torp strikes. Rant over. Dont bother responding because I pry wont check the thread ever again. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
227 Cruiser_Sendai Beta Testers 768 posts Report post #2 Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) I've tested with a friend in an AA-specced Iowa versus my fully upgraded Midway in the training room. He shoots down 5 or 6 out of 12 TBs before they drop, every time. This is, of course, with him turning towards the TBs, clicking planes, etc, and trying to survive. If a lone Iowa with no escort can do that, you can too. Edited October 21, 2015 by Cruiser_Sendai 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
194 [CONQR] Happy_Thoughts Beta Testers 895 posts 13,174 battles Report post #3 Posted October 21, 2015 Hey, at least you didn't detonate from one of them. cough cough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
122 [KIA-A] Jackbear1 Members 796 posts 16,399 battles Report post #4 Posted October 21, 2015 Hmmmm there are these ships in the game which are designed with the purpose of providing AA support. They are called cruisers, you may have seen one or two before. Perhaps instead of roling solo in your big bad Montana and then getting wrecked by planes you could try staying near one of these cruiser type ships. You know, through out history there have been repeated cases where a big bad battleship or two decide to sail around without AA support. The IJN Yamoto was the last one. She had alot of AA capability but none the less the planes wrecked her. The Bismark had pretty decent AA and yet a bi-wing Swordfish TB knocked its rudder out. HMS Repulse and Prince Of Wales were considered modern state of the art BB on Dec 10, 1941 but without an AA escort IJN bombers had their way with them (suffering very few losses). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,242 [NDA] Wo_9 Beta Testers 5,251 posts 8,893 battles Report post #5 Posted October 21, 2015 I've tested with a friend in an AA-specced Iowa versus my fully upgraded Midway in the training room. He shoots down 5 or 6 out of 12 TBs before they drop, every time. This is, of course, with him turning towards the TBs, clicking planes, etc, and trying to survive. If a lone Iowa with no escort can do that, you can too. Amen Sendai. No such thing as being helpless, especially in a late tier battleship such as Iowa,Montana and Yamato. Just don't let the cruisers kill your modules, and don't angle towards other battleships without cruisers being there for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
116 [CS7] The_Admiral Beta Testers 326 posts 7,159 battles Report post #6 Posted October 21, 2015 Hmmmm there are these ships in the game which are designed with the purpose of providing AA support. They are called cruisers, you may have seen one or two before. Perhaps instead of roling solo in your big bad Montana and then getting wrecked by planes you could try staying near one of these cruiser type ships. You know, through out history there have been repeated cases where a big bad battleship or two decide to sail around without AA support. The IJN Yamoto was the last one. She had alot of AA capability but none the less the planes wrecked her. The Bismark had pretty decent AA and yet a bi-wing Swordfish TB knocked its rudder out. HMS Repulse and Prince Of Wales were considered modern state of the art BB on Dec 10, 1941 but without an AA escort IJN bombers had their way with them (suffering very few losses). American cruisers suck at T10 so no one plays them and they are the only cruisers that have AA thats worth anything so everything you just said is utterly irrelevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
116 [CS7] The_Admiral Beta Testers 326 posts 7,159 battles Report post #7 Posted October 21, 2015 I've tested with a friend in an AA-specced Iowa versus my fully upgraded Midway in the training room. He shoots down 5 or 6 out of 12 TBs before they drop, every time. This is, of course, with him turning towards the TBs, clicking planes, etc, and trying to survive. If a lone Iowa with no escort can do that, you can too. This must have been before the AA nerf because you are lucky to down 1 or 2 TB's in a montana now during an entire engagement much less before they drop torps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
23 ShockPirat Members 74 posts Report post #8 Posted October 21, 2015 The_admiral, I hear you ride the line a lot. How many CVs even bother to torp you? I wouldn't waste my time. As Sendai said. Click on the planes and start avoiding BEFORE they drop. I had a game in my AA specced North Carolina vs a Midway where I shot down 35 planes. If I can do it in a North Carolina, than anyone can do it in a Montana. Cruisers aren't there to shoot the planes down for you. They are there to make them panic and miss their drops. IJN will do that just as well as USN. Any planes they shoot down is a bonus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
712 Anumati Beta Testers 1,661 posts 7,501 battles Report post #9 Posted October 21, 2015 Lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
122 [KIA-A] Jackbear1 Members 796 posts 16,399 battles Report post #10 Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) @ The_AdmiralShockPirat made my point. So again, stay near cruisers, turn into torp planes before they drop, requires not having tunnel vision looking zoomed in. These are all like things players who went through the grind learned at like tier 4 and 5... My highest grind is the Nagato and now im grinding up the USN BB line because I have no interest in the Amagi or IJN Nelson imitation. I do have a Tripitz which I love to play and often find myself in matches with Tier 9 and 10 CV. I manage to shoot down planes and avoid being completely wrecked by one wave... Most of the time lol.. :p @ the OP No you can't have a WTFBBQPWNMOBILE Battleship that you can stay zoomed in, sail only straight, and wreck everything within 7km on both sea and in the air. Edited October 21, 2015 by Jackbear1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
116 [CS7] The_Admiral Beta Testers 326 posts 7,159 battles Report post #11 Posted October 21, 2015 against a decent CV driver you won't even have time to turn the rudder on the montana before the planes are detected, do their run, and leave. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Hans_Rex Members 1 post 2,097 battles Report post #12 Posted October 21, 2015 Jackbear1 I hear you, but it doesn't appear you play past tier 8. When you go against a Midway or to a lesser extent an Essex, the match is decided only by the cv driver. One carrier sinks the other, and the lone Midway simply picks off ship after ship. The matches always go this way. There is no defense against a manual drop Midway. He simply double stacks the torp bombers, great aa gets 2 or 3 before the drop and you eat the remainder. You simply cannot out maneuver a manual drop in a bb. (Or for that matter in a ca.) Good Midway drivers can even pick off dd's at will. This is not fun game play. If a player against another has no chance. Its not good game play. You should check out Ichase when he streams, if you want to watch an example of this. You can all say, "oh you suck," "Learn how to turn into the torps." "stack with other players." None of these things make a difference in high tier cv battles. They are a bore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
122 [KIA-A] Jackbear1 Members 796 posts 16,399 battles Report post #13 Posted October 21, 2015 Could be WG way of showing what history already showed us? BB are a tremendous waste of time and investment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
23 ShockPirat Members 74 posts Report post #14 Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah admiral, thats totally true. If you start turning when the planes are 3 kms away. Guess what? You will spot them at least 7 kms away. That's the detection range of planes afaik. Or even further away if your teammates spot them for you. If you start turning in time, you WILL give that CV player a hard time. He HAS to aim for your side to make his drop worthwhile. How do I know this? By playing a Midway myself and by giving Midways a hard time myself when I play my battleships. Battleships have all the tools they need to protect themselves against CVs when they are alone. Most of the players simply don't notice the planes on time (their fault) or think like Hans_Rex above "Oh damn, I'm against a Midway, I'll just give up" (which is just a stupid way to think). And then, some people just suck, don't even bother to click on the planes (gives you 50% more AA damage on that squad) and continue going perfectly straight even when torps hit the water. Finally, if multiple ships clump up as they often do vs a Midway the area above them becomes a no fly zone, even for Midway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
122 [KIA-A] Jackbear1 Members 796 posts 16,399 battles Report post #15 Posted October 21, 2015 I'm pretty much siding with Shock on this one. I've been in matches against Tier 9 and 10 CV in my Myoko, Nagato, Tripitz, hell even my Cleavland once when some dushe in a Midway platooned up with a pair of Tier 6s (IIRC I shot down like 30 something planes in my Cleavland). Meanwhile Admiral over here is saying Tier 9 and 10 USN CA cant handle a Midway? Maybe they just aren't using the ships panic ability or focusing on squads. Focusing on squads makes a huge difference. I have recenty had several matches in my Pitz with Tier 9 and 10 CV. Survived some, died some. But if I in a Pitz that isn't AA upgraded can shoot down 12 planes from Midway and survive several waves by focusing my AA, going fighter instead of spotter, and being aware of where my teamates are, then I dont see why anyone else can't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
23 ShockPirat Members 74 posts Report post #16 Posted October 21, 2015 The_admiral "against a decent CV driver you won't even have time to turn the rudder on the montana before the planes are detected, do their run, and leave." I just noticed you wrote this. Dunno how I missed it earlier. Math to the rescue! Midway torp bombers travel at 150 knots. That's about 77 meters per second. To travel 7 km (7000 meters) they need 90 seconds. Montana has, I don't remember clearly, 20 second rudder shift time? I rest my case Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
225 [-GPS-] _BloodHawk_ Beta Testers 696 posts 5,366 battles Report post #17 Posted October 21, 2015 My only Clear Skys came in my Montana vs a Midway. AA and torp dodging works fine with the 'Tana. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
227 Cruiser_Sendai Beta Testers 768 posts Report post #18 Posted October 21, 2015 This must have been before the AA nerf because you are lucky to down 1 or 2 TB's in a montana now during an entire engagement much less before they drop torps. Actually, it's after. As in, like a week ago. I'll be more than happy to make a video showing what happens as soon as Aslain gets the mod working again. You'd be surprised how effective AA is when the BB tries to dodge TBs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
14 [-I-] sonicmonkey Beta Testers 73 posts 6,656 battles Report post #19 Posted October 21, 2015 against a decent CV driver you won't even have time to turn the rudder on the montana before the planes are detected, do their run, and leave. CV drivers look great when you stack them up against BB captains with this mentality. I stay in focused aiming mode...never looking at mini map. OMG torps in water?!?!? I got hit by 5+ torps...CVs OVERPOWERED!!! NERF PLZ. RAGE QQ DONE. But when you stack them up against good BB drivers it's a different story. People who stick with their teammates, use aa bubbles and are aware of their surroundings via the minimap. You then get BBs who turn into torps to shorten the arming distance and make CV drivers change their angles of attack. Thus making their planes sit in your aa bubble longer...taking more damage...and ultimately losing a lot of planes. Then you throw in an escort Cruiser or DD with the AA ability. You end up with a CV who just lost 50%+ of their planes and scored minimal hits. Spending 2-5 minutes of time for minimal damage. Even the best CV driver does nothing against a good enemy team that plays together. But 1 on 1...yea you're gonna get #rekt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
164 [WALLY] QuicksilverJPR Beta Testers 1,413 posts 1,450 battles Report post #20 Posted October 21, 2015 against a decent CV driver you won't even have time to turn the rudder on the montana before the planes are detected, do their run, and leave. So I guess the 15km they are on the minimap isn't warning enough? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10 Elementalism Members 170 posts 770 battles Report post #21 Posted October 21, 2015 Hmmmm there are these ships in the game which are designed with the purpose of providing AA support. They are called cruisers, you may have seen one or two before. Perhaps instead of roling solo in your big bad Montana and then getting wrecked by planes you could try staying near one of these cruiser type ships. You know, through out history there have been repeated cases where a big bad battleship or two decide to sail around without AA support. The IJN Yamoto was the last one. She had alot of AA capability but none the less the planes wrecked her. The Bismark had pretty decent AA and yet a bi-wing Swordfish TB knocked its rudder out. HMS Repulse and Prince Of Wales were considered modern state of the art BB on Dec 10, 1941 but without an AA escort IJN bombers had their way with them (suffering very few losses). This is one of the issues with CAs at higher level. BBs provide as good or better AA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
611 [SYN] ryuukei8569 Members 2,861 posts 10,456 battles Report post #22 Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Montana still does better against all those planes than Yamato does. Yamato's AA is about as useful as flare guns against midway's planes. Montana at least if I have the Captain and Mod that increases AA range, Montana can at least shoot down one squadron. Yamato can maybe kill one plane. And lets face it, Des Moines AA is so incredibly gimped that it is purely useless. Of course i also use rudder shift mod to make these fat girls turn faster too. But overall montana seems to be the most effective ship against midway's planes, which is unfortunately not saying much. Edited October 21, 2015 by ryuukei8569 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
419 [BLNCE] Xenomancers Members 2,293 posts 7,678 battles Report post #23 Posted October 21, 2015 Something you guys need to understand is that AA damage doesn't seem to be predictable at all. Sometimes you will shread - sometimes you fire for 6-7 seconds and kill nothing. I drive a balti and a NC so I know what I am talking about. I also drive a gearing with full AA spec...I can't kill a dang plane to save my life - I mean this literally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
258 sushimaster Members 1,383 posts 2,282 battles Report post #24 Posted October 21, 2015 The_admiral "against a decent CV driver you won't even have time to turn the rudder on the montana before the planes are detected, do their run, and leave." I just noticed you wrote this. Dunno how I missed it earlier. Math to the rescue! Midway torp bombers travel at 150 knots. That's about 77 meters per second. To travel 7 km (7000 meters) they need 90 seconds. Montana has, I don't remember clearly, 20 second rudder shift time? I rest my case Wrong, distance is compressed in this game. My torp at 66 knots take 35 secs in general to travel 6 kms. Your planes at 150 knots will take even less time. Learn your fact right before acting like a smart [edited]. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
194 BadNews420 Members 555 posts 11,596 battles Report post #25 Posted October 21, 2015 I had this battle yesterday And i was target by enemy CV, My NC with 90 AA rating shot down 29 planes, i Survived the battle and we won. If my NC can do that i'm sure your Montana must be able to do that also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
