Concern over US DD buffs coming...

[DanCallaghan]

I mostly play destroyers and love the play style. I have the tier 7 US DD and the tier 6 IJN DD and I've played both extensively. My concern is this, will buffing US DD torpedo range render IJN DD's obsolete? The IJN niche up till seems to have been hide and look for a good opportunity to get a good torpedo salvo off  while staying hidden because your guns are straight awful. For American DD's it feels more like hang back until you find a good opportunity and then rush in guns blazing and torpedoes are more of a secondary weapon if you manage to get a good ambush or otherwise manage to close the distance.

 

So if American DD's end up being able to pull off the IJN strat of staying hidden and firing torps, why would you play an IJN Destroyer? What niche does that ship line now fill?

[danredda1616]

Even if they buff USN Torps, IJN DDs will probably still have better maneuverability, and detection, meaning that they can better use their stealth abilities.

[10T0nHammer]

No it will not. Even if they buffed USN DD torps 20 percent, which is really optimistic, IJN would still be a go to torpedo boat

[The_Goblin_King]

From the stats the higher tier US DDs are lagging significantly behind. They need the buff.

[crazyjoe1337]

They'll probably buff the range of the torpedoes so they're more usable, placing USN DDs as hybrids. I assume this is because as they are, the RU DDs will out-gunboat them and currently the IJN DDs out-torpedo them, especially below tier 9. With minor buffs to torpedo ranges and some changes to the mid-high tier guns, they'll be in a better spot.

[Captain_Dorja]

I mostly play destroyers and love the play style. I have the tier 7 US DD and the tier 6 IJN DD and I've played both extensively. My concern is this, will buffing US DD torpedo range render IJN DD's obsolete? The IJN niche up till seems to have been hide and look for a good opportunity to get a good torpedo salvo off  while staying hidden because your guns are straight awful. For American DD's it feels more like hang back until you find a good opportunity and then rush in guns blazing and torpedoes are more of a secondary weapon if you manage to get a good ambush or otherwise manage to close the distance.

 

So if American DD's end up being able to pull off the IJN strat of staying hidden and firing torps, why would you play an IJN Destroyer? What niche does that ship line now fill?

 

I'm guessing you can expect the improved range USN torps to end up being more like what is found on the Sims and Marblehead - ie sort of medium range, 7.5-8.5km, low damage (please god hopefully not any lower than it already is... Benson hitting with the damage of a Wakatake is so much not fun) and probably slow to boot. To be honest, Benson already has the kind of torpedoes I'm expecting. 8.2km range, 55 knots, ~11,500 damage. It's been like that at least since October CBT and the Fubuki isn't obsolete because of Bensons.

 

They'll probably buff the range of the torpedoes so they're more usable, placing USN DDs as hybrids. I assume this is because as they are, the RU DDs will out-gunboat them and currently the IJN DDs out-torpedo them, especially below tier 9. With minor buffs to torpedo ranges and some changes to the mid-high tier guns, they'll be in a better spot.

^So much this! If you took off the torpedo tubes on the Benson (guess what USN DD I'm currently grinding) I'd rather have an Ognevoi with the tier changed from 6 to 8 and no other modifications. The tier 6 Ognevoi is a better gunfighter than the Benson straight up, and purely down to 3 things. 1 - Flatter shell arc (this is the biggest reason) 2 - Faster shell travel (helps a lot, but not as much as flatter arc imo) and 4% higher base chance of fire (which is frankly [edited]).

[DanCallaghan]

From the stats the higher tier US DDs are lagging significantly behind. They need the buff.

 

Oh yeah? Can you elaborate? I was under the impression that the Fletcher and Gearing were really strong. Arguably better than the IJN DD's at the same tier. First time I've heard someone suggest that they weren't performing well.

[DanCallaghan]

They'll probably buff the range of the torpedoes so they're more usable, placing USN DDs as hybrids. I assume this is because as they are, the RU DDs will out-gunboat them and currently the IJN DDs out-torpedo them, especially below tier 9. With minor buffs to torpedo ranges and some changes to the mid-high tier guns, they'll be in a better spot.

 

I just think it's odd considering my American DD in a lot of ways feels better than my IJN DD. The IJN's feel like they're so reliant on torpedoes that if you can't find a good firing solution in a given game, you really don't seem to contribute much. The American DD always feels relevant because you can get a surprising amount of damage out of your guns.

[Crazywan]

I have the same concerns, but without the full details it is hard to say. USN has superior guns. If the USN torps are set to 7km or more this could present a problem for IJN Destroyers. Mainly making them obsolete...

[Captain_Dorja]

I really think you guys are over reacting a bit. Unless the changes are drastically out of character with the rest of the US line, there is literally nothing to worry about.

[Caucasian_Fury]

Meh. Just happy there's ANY DD buffs coming at all.

 

Also, if the Ognevoi and the new Russian DDs are any indication, they're going to have even better guns than USN DD's, with more health but lower ranged torps. This places the USN DD as a jack of all trades but master of none situation, right in between Russian and IJN DD's but not as good as either at being a gun or torp boat. 

 

I don't see the range extension to be that much, I doubt they'll increase it enough to allow USN DDs to stealth torp, although it would be just lovely if they did.

[ConquerorSEA_2014]

I doubt the USN DD  torp buff will make the IJN DD obsolete.Its very likely they will get 1-2 km buff at most which will still not  match IJN DD's torp range and they still have to fire their torp inside their  detection range.The IJN DD's will also  still have higher torp damage

[Captain_Dorja]

I doubt the USN DD  torp buff will make the IJN DD obsolete.Its very likely they will get 1-2 km buff at most which will still not  match IJN DD's torp range and they still have to fire their torp inside their  detection range.The IJN DD's will also  still have higher torp damage

 

^Nice to see you and Caucasian_Fury aren't both crying out that the sky is falling. Honestly, I'm guessing the longer range US torps will also have even lower damage, and probably be very slow.

[ConquerorSEA_2014]

 

^Nice to see you and Caucasian_Fury aren't both crying out that the sky is falling. Honestly, I'm guessing the longer range US torps will also have even lower damage, and probably be very slow.

 

I bet the new improve torp range will be slower  depending on how much range buff they will get .Maybe they will be 2-5knots slower .I dont think they will nerf the torp damage because the USN DD torp damage  are already lower than the  T4 Isokaze's torp damage untill  the T8 Benson (unless you take into account the suicidal  4.5km torp range in the Farragut and Mahan ).If they also keep the current USN DD torp detection as it is,I think it will increase the time reaction for an enemy ship to evade the torp due to slower torp speed which will indirectly nerf the USN DD although any experience BBs will just start to take evasive manuever the moment a DD is spotted  even before the torp had been launched.

[Captain_Dorja]

Experienced BB captains are taking evasive torpedo action when torpedoes and DDs haven't even been spotted at all.

[Caucasian_Fury]

 

I just think it's odd considering my American DD in a lot of ways feels better than my IJN DD. The IJN's feel like they're so reliant on torpedoes that if you can't find a good firing solution in a given game, you really don't seem to contribute much. The American DD always feels relevant because you can get a surprising amount of damage out of your guns.

 

Depends on how you play it. IJN DD's are great for area-denial especially against BBs. A lot of the time, just having my Minekaze spotted is enough to result in enemy cruisers and battleships turning around whether I launched torps or not. This is pretty handy when you have friendlies engaging enemy BBs, causing enemy BBs to turn around or even WASD puts their guns out of position for awhile. Also good at drawing fire for sure, but you have to be good to dodge shots and know when to pop smoke and disengage when it gets a little too hot. Plus, with IJN DD's lower detection range they're better scouts/spotters than either Russian or USN DDs, especially in matches with no CVs.

 

Unfortunately, scouting/spotting and area-denial doesn't reward any XP or credits... to me this is something I'd wish WG will change.

 

 

^Nice to see you and Caucasian_Fury aren't both crying out that the sky is falling. Honestly, I'm guessing the longer range US torps will also have even lower damage, and probably be very slow.

 

Honestly, I play both USN and IJN DD lines and I fully intend to play the Russian DD line as well. So any DD buff is a good buff in my books. 

[208twelve]

I mostly play destroyers and love the play style. I have the tier 7 US DD and the tier 6 IJN DD and I've played both extensively. My concern is this, will buffing US DD torpedo range render IJN DD's obsolete? The IJN niche up till seems to have been hide and look for a good opportunity to get a good torpedo salvo off  while staying hidden because your guns are straight awful. For American DD's it feels more like hang back until you find a good opportunity and then rush in guns blazing and torpedoes are more of a secondary weapon if you manage to get a good ambush or otherwise manage to close the distance.

 

So if American DD's end up being able to pull off the IJN strat of staying hidden and firing torps, why would you play an IJN Destroyer? What niche does that ship line now fill?

 

Son, I feel like your concerns are a classic case of the good ol' "knee jerk reaction." Just wait and see. It hasn't been made clear yet what kind of range boost the torpedoes will be getting. I highly doubt they will match up to IJN torp range.

 

I know some IJN players are feeling left out but the fact is that IJN DDs are faring quite well and are not in need of any big changes, at the moment. The numbers are definitely in their favor when it comes to performance. Check out Warshipstats.com and see for yourself. The sky isn't falling. Everything will be fine.

[Captain_Dorja]

I know some IJN players are feeling left out but the fact is that IJN DDs are faring quite well and are not in need of any big changes, at the moment. The numbers are definitely in their favor when it comes to performance. Check out Warshipstats.com and see for yourself. The sky isn't falling. Everything will be fine.

 

Yeah I quite agree with this. Basically, if you think about why they are buffing USN torps at all, even if they only do it a little, and the buff ends up not being that great (who knows, maybe the buff will be awesome, maybe it will be like Sims long range torps, which are about as useful as a car with no engine), the basic fact is that the IJN DDs can fill their intended roles, and the Russian ones are also able to as well. As it stands though, with the introduction of the Russian DDs, the only US DDs that will fill their roles are the VERY low tier ones, and the Fletcher and Gearing. At least the t4-t8 would be left out in the cold, inferior in all the specifics of either role, and unable to do what they are supposed to.

[warmseas]

If the US buff is anything like the Sims Torps, nothing to worry about IJN will still be the best torp boats.

[misanthrope0]

If they do what they did with the Sims the 9.2 KM torps only go 49KMH which makes them easy to dodge.

[Jerkster]

I wonder if the cruiser torps will get bumped up to as an uninteded consequence since i think they share the same data as the the tier 5 and 4 destroyers I would defenetly would rebuy the omaha if the torps get put up to 6km+ range

[TallGiraffe]

IJN torps are still faster than USN torps. However with the average 5.5km range on mid tier USN DDs, even a kilometer would be useful. As a Mahan player I use the enemy's movement into my torp range and fire out of range 6.4km torps and manage to do some damage. However it takes alot of skill not to get detected in the USN Destroyers. They need a little buff imo as someone who plays alot of USN DDs.

[Taichunger]

""'This is pretty handy when you have friendlies engaging enemy BBs, causing enemy BBs to turn around or even WASD puts their guns out of position for awhile. """

 

Yeah, this is so important, the ability of DDs to put BBs off course. i wish there was an XP award for this. So many times I've been hit hard in a BB because I had to put my ship broadside to it because of a DD's torps, and so many times I've cit hit/killed BBs because my DD teammate forced them to turn under my guns. This is so important, a skill I am still learning in Hatsuharu.

[Xenomancers]

 

Oh yeah? Can you elaborate? I was under the impression that the Fletcher and Gearing were really strong. Arguably better than the IJN DD's at the same tier. First time I've heard someone suggest that they weren't performing well.

 

Nah they aren't better - t9+t10 dds battle is all about skills. The ships are evenly matched.

[thelastholdout]

 

Oh yeah? Can you elaborate? I was under the impression that the Fletcher and Gearing were really strong. Arguably better than the IJN DD's at the same tier. First time I've heard someone suggest that they weren't performing well.

 

I can.

 

On paper the Fletcher looks like a far better balanced ship. It has great, fast firing guns AND it has torps that are pretty fast and fire well past detection range.

 

However, here are the stats from the NA server:

 

Fletcher:

 

Winrate: 49%

Average XP: 1420

Average damage: 39,194

K/D: 0.53

Ship kill rate: 0.89

Survival rate: 35%

 

Kagero:

 

Winrate: 47.7%

Average XP: 1616

Average damage: 43,520

K/D: 0.26

Ship kill rate: 0.74

Survival rate: 48.30%

 

Gearing:

 

Winrate: 48%

Average XP: 1790

Average damage: 51,427

K/D: 0.56

Ship kill rate: 0.90

Survival rate: 33.3%

 

Shimakaze:

 

Winrate: 49.1%

Average XP: 1,786

Average damage: 60,866

K/D: 0.43

Ship kill rate: 0.87

Survival rate: 44.40%

 

As you can see, the Fletcher and Gearing aren't absolutely *terrible,* but they lag significantly behind the Kagero and Shimakaze in damage done and survival rate. To be fair, this could be due to the kinds of players they attract-the more skilled players may favor the IJN DDs, while USN DD players might just be a bunch of derps. I know that average stats don't necessarily predict how I'll do with a given ship- for instance, I have 20k higher average damage in the Colorado than the general playerbase on NA server, and it's considered the worst battleship in the US tree. I'm actually looking forward to playing the Fletcher and the Gearing, which is the main reason I'm even bothering with the USN DDs. I just got done grinding the Farragut, and now I have to buy and run with the Mahan, as painful as that is likely to be.