Cruisers not Protecting BBs...Off doing their own thing

[RonboTex]

I've only been playing a few weeks and play cruisers, battleships and destroyers. When I started I often did my own thing but learned pretty quickly that a major role of cruisers is to protect BBs and carriers from destroyers & well as air attacks. Usually when I play a cruiser, I tend to follow the nearest battleship to provide some level of protection.

 

I've recently played quite a few games in my battleships Ishizuchi, Kongo, and Tirpitz. I can generally hold my own against other battleships and cruisers, but I find myself increasingly left alone against destroyers and especially torpedo bombers.  During the last game I specifically asked(in chat) for cruiser help to follow the battleships. I noticed most of us were left by ourselves while the cruisers were off doing their own thing. I managed to dodge multiple attacks and shot down around 5 planes(in a Kongo) but 100% of the damage I received was from air attacks. I tried to follow the mob but the cruisers went off and did their own thing.. I noticed a Colorado being constantly harassed by a destroyer with no help to be had. Saw ZERO fighters from out carriers. 

 

I can understand this behavior at lower tiers where cruiser AA sucks and people are just beginning, but at higher levels, T4 and up, the cruisers should realize their major role is protection. I guess if you want to go off on your own as a lone wolf, destroyers would be the way to go, although they can provide good protection against other destroyers and some can even provide decent AA.

 

Folks should realize this is a team game, and even in random groups, provide assistance if asked.

 

It would be nice if there could be a reward for ships doing escort duty, but I'm not sure how this could be implemented.

 

/End of Rant

 

[mohawkdriver]

If you played WoT, this behavior should not surprise you. 

[RonboTex]

Nope, have not indulged in WoT.... yet.

[Lumindirn]

The issue is, if you do what you're supposed to (ie defend BB's form planes, DD's, etc), there is little to no reward. Sure I could spend time in my CA's shooting down planes coming for my BB's and maybe kill a DD, but in that time I could have made much more xp/profit fighting my own battles. Right now there's really no Incentive to protect BB's.

[BladedPheonix]

The issue is, if you do what you're supposed to (ie defend BB's form planes, DD's, etc), there is little to no reward. Sure I could spend time in my CA's shooting down planes coming for my BB's and maybe kill a DD, but in that time I could have made much more xp/profit fighting my own battles. Right now there's really no Incentive to protect BB's.

 

^this

[MexicanPanda]

If there was more incentive for cruisers to sit with the BBs, then they would. Right now though, WG has a selfish system in place where the only way to pay the bills and advance in the game is to do damage to the enemy. Shooting down planes and protecting BBs while they do all the damage does not pay the bills.

 

I'm more than happy to kill DDs that try to come after the BBs, and will try to put myself in the path of bombers on their way to attack the BBs and CVs, but there's no chance in heck that I'm going to sit with the BBs while they snipe from their maximum range at the enemy while all I get to do is serve as extra AA for them.

[mohawkdriver]

Nope, have not indulged in WoT.... yet.

 

And the response below is testament of certain attitudes toward team play.

[RonboTex]

I guess the question has been answered. There is no incentive or reward to do this.... other than possibly a team victory. I personally enjoy when a big fleet sails together, where the BBs are shielded by cruisers and destroyers. Those have been lots of fun..

 

[Wo_9]

Sometimes you have to adjust to the game environment around you instead of expecting things. if you have decent AA and are reasonably fast for a Battleship you have a fair chance against destroyer/air attacks. so escorting isn't always necessary per say but its always recommended since defensive fire and fast reloading guns are appreciated when you need them.  Just play very cautiously and watch out for any threats around you. but remember the biggest counter to you can be your own class itself, rather than the supposed hard counters to your class.  

 

Will use Battleship for example since they can keep other battleships in place from moving, as they have to angle to avoid taking massive damage. which leaves them open to attack from either destroyers, or carriers. so in a sense other battleships are the biggest counter to battleships like a destroyer can be the biggest counter to other destroyers etc etc.

 

 

[Timberpup]

Honestly you should realize that people will play how they want to play, not how they should. i'm guility of it also, have those match's where I just don't give a crap and do my own thing. wrong way to play lol but sometime's it just has to be done.

 

[Crucis]

The issue is, if you do what you're supposed to (ie defend BB's form planes, DD's, etc), there is little to no reward. Sure I could spend time in my CA's shooting down planes coming for my BB's and maybe kill a DD, but in that time I could have made much more xp/profit fighting my own battles. Right now there's really no Incentive to protect BB's.

 

There's no reason why CA's escorting BB's can't be dealing damage while at the same time, shooting down planes and killing the occasional DD.  Damage to a DD is no different than damage to any other ship.  And shooting down planes doesn't interfere with ships.  All it takes is quickly targeting an incoming sqdrn, sending up catapult fighter, and triggering your defensive AA barrage... all of which takes less time than aiming a torp spread.

 

 

[iEaTDaGrudge]

The issue is, if you do what you're supposed to (ie defend BB's form planes, DD's, etc), there is little to no reward. Sure I could spend time in my CA's shooting down planes coming for my BB's and maybe kill a DD, but in that time I could have made much more xp/profit fighting my own battles. Right now there's really no Incentive to protect BB's.

 

Well said..

 

Same here..But i still do end up a lot of time escorting a BB's if they ask nicely..Then i ask if hes ok playing aggressive like pushing a head instead of holding back sniping...if he say yes..ill dedicated myself defending him..But if i see hes not..i just leave him behind and do my thing or ask a different BB's if they need support.

[MrDeaf]

I don't mind escorting when I'm thrown in a T9/10 match when I'm only in a T7/8.

 

but If I'm put in a match where the CV is lower tier than BBs, I don't see why I need to support the BBs with AA.

[GearaDoga]

This is absolutely NOT a team game.

 

You're playing grouped with 14 nominal "allies", and overall victory in a match is decided by the group's performance... But every last scrap of credits and XP you get is based solely on YOUR PERSONAL PERFORMANCE. Wargaming has covered the game in a thin veneer of teamwork, but all of the core mechanisms are purely focused on the individual.

[crzyhawk]

My recommendation is that you play some cruisers for a bit, and find out fun and rewarding that is to hang with BB's and shoot at targets of opportunity, especially at higher tiers. 

[DuckIshNub]

 

There's no reason why CA's escorting BB's can't be dealing damage while at the same time, shooting down planes and killing the occasional DD.  Damage to a DD is no different than damage to any other ship.  And shooting down planes doesn't interfere with ships.  All it takes is quickly targeting an incoming sqdrn, sending up catapult fighter, and triggering your defensive AA barrage... all of which takes less time than aiming a torp spread.

 

 

 

With the game as its is now, and BBs sniping from max range, CAs do not have the range to engage othr targets apart from planes and SOMETIMES a DD. If you didn't know, XP is calculated from damage dealt, not kills and CAs would want other targets to rack up their damage too, DDs don't really have much HP.

 

This is absolutely NOT a team game.

 

You're playing grouped with 14 nominal "allies", and overall victory in a match is decided by the group's performance... But every last scrap of credits and XP you get is based solely on YOUR PERSONAL PERFORMANCE. Wargaming has covered the game in a thin veneer of teamwork, but all of the core mechanisms are purely focused on the individual.

 

Maybe you should look at the winning and losing team's XP difference

[crzyhawk]

 

With the game as its is now, and BBs sniping from max range, CAs do not have the range to engage othr targets apart from planes and SOMETIMES a DD. If you didn't know, XP is calculated from damage dealt, not kills and CAs would want other targets to rack up their damage too, DDs don't really have much HP.

 

 

Maybe you should look at the winning and losing team's XP difference

 

If you win and didn't do much damage, you get pretty crappy exp anyways.

[Eisennagel]

 

 

When it comes to Domination, cruisers and destroyers protecting battleships are less ships to cap these zones.  Instead, it should be battleships trying to cover cruisers and destroyers trying to cap zones.

[Trollhammer]

As an avid CA player, I can tell you that aside from the fact that shooting down planes gives little reward, one of the other reasons CAs chose to do their own thing is due to the unreliability of players in pub games. I don't mean for you to take this personally, but I honestly feel like I can impact the game more by flanking and/or wolf-packing with other CAs than if I just sailed next to a BB and pressed "T" every few minutes or so. Not only that, but the BB players who know how to push properly are few and far between. If I see a BB player who's competent enough and can carry the game, I'll escort him in my CA and keep enemy DDs and planes away from him so he can do his job. What I won't do is waste my time holding the hand of some BB that's sitting on the blue line taking pot shots at targets over 20km away. 

 

I know there have been arguments by the posters above about the merits of this being a team game. It's not that I'm selfish (though you may think otherwise), just that due to the current mechanics I feel like I can "contribute" more to my team by dealing damage and sinking ships than by protecting my own BBs. After all, your teams BBs don't need protection from enemies that are dead 

[Yasenpoi]

How far away a cruiser is from a BB is also how far a BB is from a cruiser.  Kongou and Tirpitz you really have no excuses that cruisers are leaving you behind.  If all your damage is from planes then you should learn to play so that your damage is from enemy fire instead.  That means you are fulfilling your role as a tank instead of having the useful cruisers be the targets of all the enemy fire.

 

Playing at the correct ranges means you are making more accurate shots and you are contributing to defense as well.  If you don't know what the correct range is, I would recommend using the 1 cruiser rule.  Only 1 cruiser is in range to fire at you from close to max range. 

[Bril01]

I will run escort for a BB if asked but I make it clear that if they intend to hang back and engage from their max range, I will push ahead and they will lose their AA support.   So they either move into a range were we can both engage or they are going to lose their AA cover.  Sorry but being a personal AA shield doesn't pay the bills nor does it earn enough XP to make reasonable progress in a tech tree.

[Moksie]

I've only been playing a few weeks and play cruisers, battleships and destroyers. When I started I often did my own thing but learned pretty quickly that a major role of cruisers is to protect BBs and carriers from destroyers & well as air attacks. Usually when I play a cruiser, I tend to follow the nearest battleship to provide some level of protection.

 

I've recently played quite a few games in my battleships Ishizuchi, Kongo, and Tirpitz. I can generally hold my own against other battleships and cruisers, but I find myself increasingly left alone against destroyers and especially torpedo bombers.  During the last game I specifically asked(in chat) for cruiser help to follow the battleships. I noticed most of us were left by ourselves while the cruisers were off doing their own thing. I managed to dodge multiple attacks and shot down around 5 planes(in a Kongo) but 100% of the damage I received was from air attacks. I tried to follow the mob but the cruisers went off and did their own thing.. I noticed a Colorado being constantly harassed by a destroyer with no help to be had. Saw ZERO fighters from out carriers.

 

I can understand this behavior at lower tiers where cruiser AA sucks and people are just beginning, but at higher levels, T4 and up, the cruisers should realize their major role is protection. I guess if you want to go off on your own as a lone wolf, destroyers would be the way to go, although they can provide good protection against other destroyers and some can even provide decent AA.

 

Folks should realize this is a team game, and even in random groups, provide assistance if asked.

 

It would be nice if there could be a reward for ships doing escort duty, but I'm not sure how this could be implemented.

 

/End of Rant

 

 

Why would you run away from the DD's and CC's, as they are the vanguard of your team, and your protection from DD?

The game isn't follow the BB to the corner, it's kill the enemy and win strategic locations for points.

[Dodgy_Cookies]

the game is still pretty new.  For a general player base to understand team play, they actually have to play the different classes.  Many new players are just getting to mid tiers in 1 line and it will take some time for them to try out other lines and get to the mid tiers to understand what each class can and can't do and what they should be doing to help.

[LordCorellon]

My personal favorite is the "I need a volunteer so everyone but one guys steps backwards" moment

 

You know the moment you go out as a group in your BB and meet the enemy. They see the enemy and everyone turns around and runs leaving your BB there to take the full pounding while they sail to the other group..

[Dystopian_Churro]

It's frustrating to have everybody off doing their own thing but I agree with those who, having played WoT, say this is not surprising. A perfect solution is creating divisions - a friend and I did it during closed Beta - at least you can (mostly) count on your friends not to run off on you, though it happens. I enjoy playing cruisers and I do wish Wargamers would differentiate between CLs and CAs, and maybe that will come down the road. Some cruisers are better at AA and I can see them holding back to hover over the CVs, while others are definitely better able to deal with DDs and enemy cruisers.

 

That said, it can be tough to protect friendly BBs. The maps themselves can be a problem because you need to dodge and weave and all the islands in the center of many of these maps really limit maneuvering room.