Attention carriers on hot spot.

[Xenomancers]

Hello CV players. I am a dd player at high tier. I want to offer some constructive criticism about some flaws in game-play I am seeing on this map.

 

Capturing C on hotspot is vital to victory and the single most important factor in capturing C is air support. A DD can not cap a point with a fighter over their head nor with an enemy ship hiding behind islands. You must assist here or you put the team at a huge disadvantage. More often than not the team that wins C early wins the game. Keep that in mind.

 

So IMO here are the steps that CV players need to take in order help the team take an early lead on hotspot. 

#1 The second your fighters become available launch them at C. (the path to C will also give your entire team vision of enemy battleship movements heading into C and give you some Idea of where to drive your carrier.) This is another vital aspect of the early plane to C - it gives your team valuable information about what paths to take.

#2 Focus your attacks at ships around or inside of C if possible - Don't go hunt the enemy carrier. There is going to be plenty of combat around C. CV's prefer targets that are engaged with other ships...it limits their options to avoid your torps - this is where you want to be.

#3 Don't go hide in some corner - stay 5 km off your BB's. This is your best chance to survive.

 

Take this as you will. As someone that is always trying to win on this map this is what I have seen to be the most effective use of a CV on this map.

[Admiral_Of_The_Fleet]

 

@Xenomancers

 Dont go and hunt the enemy carrier 

 

 

You say that but I find in nearly every game that I play, I see carrier after carrier,  fighters bombers and torp planes  hiding behind the outside edge so you cant see them.

 

I am a carrier player and this is what I am up against time after time after time this happends, oppersite carrier sends out full loads and hiding behind the outside edge so they cant be detected

 

But anyway thanks for this new leading infomation

[Xenomancers]

 

@Xenomancers

 Dont go and hunt the enemy carrier 

 

 

You say that but I find in nearly every game that I play, I see carrier after carrier,  fighters bombers and torp planes  hiding behind the outside edge so you cant see them.

 

I am a carrier player and this is what I am up against time after time after time this happends, oppersite carrier sends out full loads and hiding behind the outside edge so they cant be detected

 

But anyway thanks for this new leading infomation

Well if you get to C and the enemy CV planes are no where to be found you have a pretty good Idea what he is doing.By no means am I telling you not to defend yourself. Just send your first fighter to C - that is most important. 

[Captain_Dorja]

Yeah the only thing I kind of take issue with is the "don't go after the enemy carrier thing." 

 

Generally speaking, I don't do this very often, but sometimes you have to just alpha the enemy carrier and get on with it.

[Xenomancers]

Yeah the only thing I kind of take issue with is the "don't go after the enemy carrier thing." 

 

Generally speaking, I don't do this very often, but sometimes you have to just alpha the enemy carrier and get on with it.

I see this as a low success attack. Between line riding CV's and the possibility of an AA escort. The attack almost always fails. Attacks on extended BB's and CA and even DD's are much more successful from what I've seen. I don't want to tell a CV what targets to attack though - he can probably make those decisions better than I can cause I don't play much CV. However - I can't stress enough the necessity that CV's support C capture.

[Crucis]

The "C" cap area is the thing I hate most about this map.  I hate fighting in there.  I hate feeling pressured to go in there if I'm in a DD.  I hate feeling as if it's the only part of the map that matters.  I honestly wish that the devs would either remove the entire area around the "C" cap, or create some new variants of this map, such as an Encounter version with the cap in the middle, or a Standard (or "Standard w/ Dom rules") version with the 2 caps in opposite corners, whether those corners were NW/SE or NE/SW, with the spawns around the caps.  For one thing, these two variants would allow this map to be played without that area around the "C" cap being seen as supposedly critical.  It might be a useful area in either of these variants, or it might not.  But it wouldn't be "critical" if there was no cap in the center of that area.

 

Of course, how this map is played depends on whether it's the N/S spawn variant or the diagonal spawn variant. 

 

If it's the diagonal spawn variant, I've seen plenty of teams successfully win on this map by pinching the NW or SW corner and grabbing the cap circle near the enemy spawn in that corner, and ignoring C entirely.  If the NE corner spawn group all pushes west while the SW corner spawn group pushes north (some taking their "B" cap, but most going around the west side), the enemy NW group can get overwhelmed pretty quickly.  IMO, this becomes particularly useful when there's a single carrier on the enemy team, since it seems (perhaps not true, but seems) that when there's a single carrier, it's with the NW spawn rather than the SE spawn for the enemy team.  And if you push hard on the NW team, particularly with a strong push along the north edge by the NE group, you can hit the enemy carrier so quickly that he'll be lucky to get a second strike off.

 

It does seem though that one reason that this strat works is that it doesn't get tried all that often, since the supposed meta for this map is to throw everything you've got from your east side spawn at "C", and enemy teams tend to act from the start with this in mind.  And if your enemy *is* thinking this way, then a pinching strat against the NW (or SW) corner spawn can catch them off guard.  That said, it probably only work if you have total buy-in from your team.  Also, it doesn't help if you have some late load-ins.  (Not that this is ever a good thing, but on some maps, it's more important than on others to have all your ships getting started asap.)

 

 

Anyways ....

 

If you have a N/S spawn variant, the strat options at the start seem to be more limited.  The east side groups are almost certainly going to clash around "C".   (Yuck.)

 

 

 

Oh how I wish that the Devs would add other variants to this map.  While I don't really like the area around the "C" cap, the rest of the map is actually rather enjoyable.  And the area around the current "C" cap wouldn't be so bad if there was no cap there, as could be the case in other variants, such as Encounter or Standard 2 cap circles.

 

 

 

 

[Crucis]

Yeah the only thing I kind of take issue with is the "don't go after the enemy carrier thing." 

 

Generally speaking, I don't do this very often, but sometimes you have to just alpha the enemy carrier and get on with it.

I see this as a low success attack. Between line riding CV's and the possibility of an AA escort. The attack almost always fails. Attacks on extended BB's and CA and even DD's are much more successful from what I've seen. I don't want to tell a CV what targets to attack though - he can probably make those decisions better than I can cause I don't play much CV. However - I can't stress enough the necessity that CV's support C capture.

 

It would seem to me that trying to go after an extended BB would be more profitable than trying to force an attack on an enemy CV right at the start, if only because the alpha strike on the enemy CV at the start seems so darned predictable.  But if you can punch out an enemy higher tier BB quickly, it'd seem like it would really give your team an edge.

 

Also, I do think that your opening suggestion of getting planes over the "C" cap at the start sounds like a good idea.  I may not be a fan of that area, etc., etc., but I can definitely see how having some planes over the area would be a major advantage when it comes to spotting the enemy.  And maybe some DB's for trying to nail enemy DD's.

 

 

[Swine_007]

Hello CV players. I am a dd player at high tier. I want to offer some constructive criticism about some flaws in game-play I am seeing on this map.

 

Capturing C on hotspot is vital to victory and the single most important factor in capturing C is air support. A DD can not cap a point with a fighter over their head nor with an enemy ship hiding behind islands. You must assist here or you put the team at a huge disadvantage. More often than not the team that wins C early wins the game. Keep that in mind.

 

So IMO here are the steps that CV players need to take in order help the team take an early lead on hotspot. 

#1 The second your fighters become available launch them at C. (the path to C will also give your entire team vision of enemy battleship movements heading into C and give you some Idea of where to drive your carrier.) This is another vital aspect of the early plane to C - it gives your team valuable information about what paths to take.

#2 Focus your attacks at ships around or inside of C if possible - Don't go hunt the enemy carrier. There is going to be plenty of combat around C. CV's prefer targets that are engaged with other ships...it limits their options to avoid your torps - this is where you want to be.

#3 Don't go hide in some corner - stay 5 km off your BB's. This is your best chance to survive.

 

Take this as you will. As someone that is always trying to win on this map this is what I have seen to be the most effective use of a CV on this map.

 

I have to say that I agree mostly with what the OP said with regards to the overall tactical importance of C, with one big caveat.  If you expect a CV to immediately cover C then there HAS to be a CA or CL willing to stay with the CV for more than 30 seconds to defend against the first air strike that is likely skirting the border and inbound to said CV.  

 

The number of times i see all the cruisers just leaving the CV is even worse of a tactical error imho.  I have very few games in carriers because I dont really enjoy the playstyle but I know that they are work and to say " you need to do X " ignores the reality that if you want specific support from your CV in C then you should also be willing to support your CV.   About the " follow the BBs 5km back " ... no ...  A CVs best chance to survive is if its protected by a cruiser from air attacks and its position remains undiscovered as long as possible.   Following the BBs, and likely getting quickly into gun range of one part or other of  the enemy fleet, is not a prescription for long life.  

 

[PPH402]

I get this map a lot in a CV. I don't hate it, but it's challenging. 

 

I'm probably not going to send my fighters to C if I spawn on the west side of the map. I'll keep them fairly close waiting for the enemy strike that usually happens. I will send the DBs though. They can spot and do some damage. I'll even keep them over the target after they drop their bombs if it seems necessary. The TBs will be going for BBs heading in my general direction. Honestly, I don't like spawning in on the west side of the map. 

 

If I spawn on the east side of the map I'm much happier. My survival chances have just gone up. Everybody, especially the DDs, are going for C and not hunting the CV. I'll cover the hell out C in that case. I want to see the enemy DDs sink so they don't hunt me later. Also, the BBs tend to around the west side of those islands around the C cap and make for great targets for my TBs. 

 

As far as hunting the enemy CV - that's a game time call. I won't do the border hugging thing with my bombers, but if the CV gets spotted and my planes have a clear path, I'm going for him. Doesn't usually happen and normally my first targets are going to be unescorted BBs that are closest to me. 

 

Also, I never hide in the corner. I try to figure out which way the team is going and follow them semi closely so I get more sorties. This doesn't always turn out well, but I think it's worth the risk. 

[Xenomancers]

I get this map a lot in a CV. I don't hate it, but it's challenging. 

 

I'm probably not going to send my fighters to C if I spawn on the west side of the map. I'll keep them fairly close waiting for the enemy strike that usually happens. I will send the DBs though. They can spot and do some damage. I'll even keep them over the target after they drop their bombs if it seems necessary. The TBs will be going for BBs heading in my general direction. Honestly, I don't like spawning in on the west side of the map. 

 

If I spawn on the east side of the map I'm much happier. My survival chances have just gone up. Everybody, especially the DDs, are going for C and not hunting the CV. I'll cover the hell out C in that case. I want to see the enemy DDs sink so they don't hunt me later. Also, the BBs tend to around the west side of those islands around the C cap and make for great targets for my TBs. 

 

As far as hunting the enemy CV - that's a game time call. I won't do the border hugging thing with my bombers, but if the CV gets spotted and my planes have a clear path, I'm going for him. Doesn't usually happen and normally my first targets are going to be unescorted BBs that are closest to me. 

 

Also, I never hide in the corner. I try to figure out which way the team is going and follow them semi closely so I get more sorties. This doesn't always turn out well, but I think it's worth the risk. 

 

You sir are a good CV driver.

[Captain_Dorja]

I see this as a low success attack. Between line riding CV's and the possibility of an AA escort. The attack almost always fails. Attacks on extended BB's and CA and even DD's are much more successful from what I've seen. I don't want to tell a CV what targets to attack though - he can probably make those decisions better than I can cause I don't play much CV. However - I can't stress enough the necessity that CV's support C capture.

 

That's exactly why I almost never do it. It takes forever to do, so it really limits what else you can do, you usually lose a lot of planes, and if you can't take them out in 1 attack, it was a complete waste of time.

[Xenomancers]

 

That's exactly why I almost never do it. It takes forever to do, so it really limits what else you can do, you usually lose a lot of planes, and if you can't take them out in 1 attack, it was a complete waste of time.

exactly.

[Harv72b]

OP, this is no way relates to carriers on this map, but as for the DD rush to C, a few times when I've spawned in the SE I've tried wrapping around the C point even further to the east and peeking around that big island which borders it to that side.  For the most part this has been successful for me--I get a peek at how many battleships & cruisers are headed that way (and how far away they are), but better yet this gives enemy DDs the chance to commit to the capture before I get there & makes their positioning fairly predictable.  Plus, I have yet to run into an enemy team which expected me to enter the capture point from that direction and at that time (the extra run to peek north eats up a minute or so more than sprinting directly to the cap).  This works even better if you have a friendly DD or two with you who can do the usual direct line to C & give you a firmer fix on how many enemy DDs are there & where they're hiding (plus eat their first torpedo salvos for you).

 

The only time this wound up being a fail for me is when an enemy Fubuki pulled the same strategy on me but coming from the North; instead of going straight in he swung west on his way down to spot our forces, and caught me completely off-guard when he showed up about 30 seconds after I had.  Edit: It wasn't a total fail, as I surprised him as much as he did me & we just wound up flailing at each other for a minute or so before I was forced to pop smoke & retreat.