Why does the Kawachi have its current rep?

[Rion12]

I'm still new to the game, and I'd like to know what's wrong with the Kawachi, as I wanted to move down the IJN Battleship line first.

 

And, for that matter, I'm given to understand the Izumo isn't exactly a bed of roses either, based on what I've read.

 

So, what is it about those particular ships that make them so problematic? And are there other IJN battleships I should look out for?

[DownhillDino]

Horrible accuracy, and other ships are able to fire at you outside your range, and you move very slowly. Using the Kawachi you'll be taking a lot of fire before you can deal it back. Myogi is troublesome with also poor accuracy (but not as bad) and its inconvenient setup. Other than that, I'd say it's pretty good past there.

[NeonPeanuts]

Both starter BBs are terrible.

[Moksie]

Nothing wrong with it.  People just have unrealistic expectations about how a Pre Great War BB should be.  They expect powder that burns evenly, they expect barrels that are made properly and don't degrade.  They expect laser sights on guns with pin point accuracy, and they don't bother to research and see how a gun that was made 120 years ago should perform.  Really not their fault, back then some people thought the world was flat and the sun went around it, and Dinosaurs didn't really exist.

[Savage_Bunny]

The Kawachi really did not bother me.  Yeah,  she has crappy range but she is the start of the BB line so I expect that and the XP needed is not that much.  The Myogi though is a terrible beast.  Her upgrades make he a decent ship but her guns are just terrible and I really hated every moment of playing in her.  After that though the BBs are worth it.  I am only up to Amagi so not sure on the Izumo and how bad she might really be in my hands compared to those who complain about her.  Beyond the Myogi and my hate for her the only other issue I have had in the BB line through tier 8 is the Fuso's stock which is really bad and you will want enough Free XP to get past that first hull.

[devilman275]

Nothing wrong with it.  People just have unrealistic expectations about how a Pre Great War BB should be.  They expect powder that burns evenly, they expect barrels that are made properly and don't degrade.  They expect laser sights on guns with pin point accuracy, and they don't bother to research and see how a gun that was made 120 years ago should perform.  Really not their fault, back then some people though the world was flat and the sun went around it, and Dinosaurs didn't really exist.

 

then i guess we can safely say that torpedoes should not be reliable on us's side because mid war torps were down right useless even when it hit because of poorly made fuses ?

 

its an arcade game

[Moksie]

 

then i guess we can safely say that torpedoes should not be reliable on us's side because mid war torps were down right useless even when it hit because of poorly made fuses ?

 

its an arcade game

 

I actually fought hard for duds and aiming issues.  Others said it would increase the frustration factor and chase people off.  But yes back in the old days things didn't work very well.  And that's what you see with the Kawachi guns.

[Starshield]

The Kawachi is universally deplored due to it's firing range of the main guns, which 9.8km is aggravating even in a tier III fight. Despite the new matchmaking it gets (which is now only tiers III and IV) it is still a major flaw. With that said, I generally enjoyed the Kawachi, especially in comparison to the South Carolina. All the same it is a quick grind and a relatively easy one at that.

 

Onto the Izumo, that ship is a rather noticeable downgrade from the Amagi for most. While not a horrid ship, the only 'good' thing about it when compared to the Amagi is the increased RoF and turn rate on her main guns. It is much easier to pen for the most part due to the larger hitbox of the top deck, which despite having more armor on paper is seemingly much easier to pen. Though I believe most peoples complaints about it stem from the fact that the Iowa is ostensibly a much superior ship. Which surely was the case when it had the bugged citadels, that has since been remedied.

[pmgaudio]

Nothing wrong with it.  People just have unrealistic expectations about how a Pre Great War BB should be.  They expect powder that burns evenly, they expect barrels that are made properly and don't degrade.  They expect laser sights on guns with pin point accuracy, and they don't bother to research and see how a gun that was made 120 years ago should perform.  Really not their fault, back then some people though the world was flat and the sun went around it, and Dinosaurs didn't really exist.

wait, the earth is not flat?

[Moksie]

I think also they don't like the Kawachi because they can't just hang in the way back and go in a straight line.  The build of the Kawachi necessitates an "In your face" mentality  to actually drive home the fight, and be circling back and forth to take advantage of the wing turrets.  If one were to do this, then they would be singled out as easy prey, due to the rest of the guys that haven't figured it out that are still in the way back.

[zraii85]

I personally had lots of fun in the Kawachi, I mean sure its slow and short range.. but the same problem on the North Carolina only you have more guns.  I have more trouble with the Myogi with only 3 turrets, two of which are on the back.

[MRJ2012]

wait, the earth is not flat?

 

also there are still ppl who dont believe in dinosaurs 

[Moksie]

 

also there are still ppl who dont believe in dinosaurs

 

And there are some people that think the Kawachi was bad.  We understand each other.

[devilman275]

 

I actually fought hard for duds and aiming issues.  Others said it would increase the frustration factor and chase people off.  But yes back in the old days things didn't work very well.  And that's what you see with the Kawachi guns.

 

south carolina has a way better time with the dispersion, while having more hp kawachi also bare easier citadels ( dem wing turret ) so it only make sense to expect to hit more than a single shot on a salvo

 

anyway only server stats has the arguments to buff/nerf

[Moksie]

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_12-25_mk1.htm

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_12-50_mk11.htm

 

Pre and post Dreadnought guns made by the guys that sold ships and guns to the Japanese.

Not knocking their expertise and abilities here, just giving an idea of the times.  Some countries were making much worse.

 

[NeonPeanuts]

Nothing wrong with it.  People just have unrealistic expectations about how a Pre Great War BB should be.  They expect powder that burns evenly, they expect barrels that are made properly and don't degrade.  They expect laser sights on guns with pin point accuracy, and they don't bother to research and see how a gun that was made 120 years ago should perform.  Really not their fault, back then some people thought the world was flat and the sun went around it, and Dinosaurs didn't really exist.

 

It's almost as if none of that is taken into account in game. Oh wait, it isn't. We've already established that historical accuracy is never an excuse, and I've never seen it used to justify an underpreforming ship in game. I mean really, and you are a Supertester?

[Moksie]

 

It's almost as if none of that is taken into account in game. Oh wait, it isn't. We've already established that historical accuracy is never an excuse, and I've never seen it used to justify an underpreforming ship in game. I mean really, and you are a Supertester?

 

I don't represent Wargaming I don't get paid by Wargaming.  I'm not allowed to opine on the forum as you are?  I'm basically you as far as most of all this goes.  I just can't talk about Supertesting stuff.

[NeonPeanuts]

 

I don't represent Wargaming I don't get paid by Wargaming.  I'm not allowed to opine on the forum as you are?

 

You have a title that holds you to a "higher standard" so I expected you to post actual in game numbers and reasons (lower number of low damaging guns + fast reloading DDs + low player experience or something like that) as opposed to a half-asset meta excuse like "we'll it's historical" in an arcade game. So where in the files are powder types and gun wear taken into account? Because so far the only thing I can see is that dispersion is based on gun caliber for BBs.

[Moksie]

 

You have a title that holds you to a "higher standard" so I expected you to post actual in game numbers and reasons (lower number of low damaging guns + fast reloading DDs + low player experience or something like that) as opposed to a half-asset meta excuse like "we'll it's historical" in an arcade game. So where in the files are powder types and gun wear taken into account? Because so far the only thing I can see is that dispersion is based on gun caliber for BBs.

 

You want to know what you can do with your expectations?

Don't run around looking for fights to pick, we have enough problems.

And I hold myself to higher standards.  What you think I should be doing, is your problem.

[NeonPeanuts]

 

You want to know what you can do with your expectations?

Don't run around looking for fights to pick, we have enough problems.

And I hold myself to higher standards.  What you think I should be doing, is your problem.

 

Then try and be helpful instead of being wrong and I won't pick a fight or call you out on it. Historic accuracy is not taken into account in the game and you should know that. There is no algorithm for it. So far, as I've said, the only uniform code that is noticeable for BBs is gun caliber and range.

[Moksie]

 

Then try and be helpful instead of being wrong and I won't pick a fight or call you out on it. Historic accuracy is not taken into account in the game and you should know that. There is no algorithm for it. So far, as I've said, the only uniform code that is noticeable for BBs is gun caliber and range.

 

Historical accuracy is taken into account in game, hence the Kawachi guns.  It's just not a set system of facts and laws.  You can't apply them in reality.

Dispersion in reality was far bigger than what we see in game, and there are a multitude of mitigating factors and variables that can't be accounted for, the WoT kids will scream RNGesus....

[Big_Spud]

At least the Kawachi is generally resistant to HE spam, because there really isn't much of a superstructure to target. Most ships at that level also lack guns large enough to cause much damage through brute force of the explosion.

 

Don't get  me wrong, the South Carolina is a better ship, but Jesus does her superstructure burn.

[Moksie]

Also people at that level are still using HE on BB's and CC's, go try to kill a St. Louis with HE and then the next match use AP on it. 

[NeonPeanuts]

Also people at that level are still using HE on BB's and CC's, go try to kill a St. Louis with HE and then the next match use AP on it. 

 

I think this is more of the problem. Considering most people using either one is A) used to the other nation's BBs or B) new to BBs all together.

[Moksie]

 

I think this is more of the problem. Considering most people using either one is A) used to the other nation's BBs or B) new to BBs all together.

 

I had a hard time learning it.  I used to test the Kawachi quite a bit back when all we had was IJN BB's.  I still remember when it sunk in, that I was doing it wrong and why the St. Lo was mastering me.  Because I was just poking it, instead of hitting it.  I thought it was fun and gave me giggles, watching modules break every salvo and making fires.  But it wasn't sinking.

"If you want to win big, you have to play big." I still remember looking at 27K on a table, and the guy next to me was screaming that in my ear.