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Madman7

The BB/CA switch from low to high tier

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One thing I have noticed....  At low tiers 2-6, there seems to be a ton of Cruisers and fewer BBs. I am assuming it is because low tier BB are slow (people enjoy them less) and cruisers are fast and can spew HE flames (Which people love).

 

Once you get to higher tiers, 8+ there seems to be a ton of BBs and fewer CAs.  BBs can now move pretty good and Hit like a MACK TRUCK! one good volley from a BB and it takes 1/2 the HP from a cruiser. (I know there will be people who say l2p CA, gotta wiggle and weave... yea, I dont care how good you are, if the enemy team has 4-5 BBs, you cant hide your broadside forever).

 

I am at New Orleans now.. but have held off on buying her. The Pensacola was an "Ok" ship upgraded, but it to was susceptible to getting a large chunk of HP eaten away very quickly due to its weak armor. 

 

It just seems like if your going for high tier, BB is the way to go...  Especially with the high cost or repair at high tiers.  CAs have less suitability compared to BBs.  It just does not seem cost effective to play CAs at high tier. 

Edited by Madman7

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BBs have definitely become dominant over CAs in the late-game. CAs in general get kind of frustrating, particularly since one of the two lines is significantly worse at tier X, so motivation to push through to it has tanked in the face of the huge glut of tier 8 BBs and insanely powerful endgame ones.

 

The drought of carriers at high tiers is also a big hit to CA usefulness, particularly since even when you do see tier X carriers CAs are not even very effective at stopping the planes.

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The meta shifts. At lower tiers many cruisers are agile darty things that can abuse battleships, and maps are smaller and people move around more independently, so cruisers are more capable.

 

The thing is, cruisers progression is very flat, whereas battleships keep getting better and better, and at higher tiers larger maps and the shift towards more cooporative meta means longer range fighting and massed ships become the meta. Some cruisers cant even shoot far enough to do anything but hope the enemy has a carrier so it can use defensive fire. The quick responce capability of cruisers, while still important, are much less so when the map sizes are such that cruisers just arent fast enough to have the same reactive playstyle. Planning ahead becomes more important, and the difference between a 30 knot battleship and a 33 knot cruiser when you need such foresight becomes less.

 

 

t8 is where they hit parity, and t9 and t10 battleships are much more valuable to the team than t9 and t10 cruisers are. Cruisers in the high tier meta are support and utility ships. They are still important, its just the oportunities to 'make things happen' are much less than at lower tiers, so given that sort of playstyle, where the cruiser, most of the time, is tagging along with the BBs anyway, most people would rather just be a battleship.

 

I think cruisers are valuable when working with people you can count on. A battleship+cruiser team can use the BBs aa dps and the cruisers aa dispersion to stay somewhat safe from air harassment, where a simple two battleship team, while perhaps killing more planes, will still take more hits in the process. This means 2 or 3 people can 'detach' from the AA blob and go do important things, as long as one of them is a cruiser.

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I've just rebought my Kongo just for that reason. Waiting for German BBs too.

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The meta shifts. At lower tiers many cruisers are agile darty things that can abuse battleships, and maps are smaller and people move around more independently, so cruisers are more capable.

 

The thing is, cruisers progression is very flat, whereas battleships keep getting better and better, and at higher tiers larger maps and the shift towards more cooporative meta means longer range fighting and massed ships become the meta. Some cruisers cant even shoot far enough to do anything but hope the enemy has a carrier so it can use defensive fire. The quick responce capability of cruisers, while still important, are much less so when the map sizes are such that cruisers just arent fast enough to have the same reactive playstyle. Planning ahead becomes more important, and the difference between a 30 knot battleship and a 33 knot cruiser when you need such foresight becomes less.

 

 

t8 is where they hit parity, and t9 and t10 battleships are much more valuable to the team than t9 and t10 cruisers are. Cruisers in the high tier meta are support and utility ships. They are still important, its just the oportunities to 'make things happen' are much less than at lower tiers, so given that sort of playstyle, where the cruiser, most of the time, is tagging along with the BBs anyway, most people would rather just be a battleship.

 

I think cruisers are valuable when working with people you can count on. A battleship+cruiser team can use the BBs aa dps and the cruisers aa dispersion to stay somewhat safe from air harassment, where a simple two battleship team, while perhaps killing more planes, will still take more hits in the process. This means 2 or 3 people can 'detach' from the AA blob and go do important things, as long as one of them is a cruiser.

 

Ok, I agree with your comments. The one thing I have issue with is the part where you said CAs are good when supporting BBs for AA.  I agree that is a good thing to do, BUT... if a CA is protecting a BB (which is shooting from a range the CA can not), then the CA is losing out on doing damage, which he needs to get xp/credits. 

 

Shooting down airplanes is not worth enough for gaining xp/credits. 

 

So that leaves the CA with a decision, stick with BB and get a few plane kills or break off and go hunt alone... which usually ends up bad anyway.

 

Just does not seem like the current system is working for CAs at high tier.  

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I think CVs need a rework to counter BBs in high tier matches. Then CAs can be more effective.

 

WG's messing with CVs, which aren't even OP, has killed the class. 

 

Right now, the meta is Japanese BBs. Once German BBs come out, expect massed German BB formations to slaughter opposition. Cruisers are a dying class, destroyers, with the BB comeback, I'd believe would also make a comeback with IJN DDs.

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Ok, I agree with your comments. The one thing I have issue with is the part where you said CAs are good when supporting BBs for AA.  I agree that is a good thing to do, BUT... if a CA is protecting a BB (which is shooting from a range the CA can not), then the CA is losing out on doing damage, which he needs to get xp/credits. 

 

Shooting down airplanes is not worth enough for gaining xp/credits. 

 

So that leaves the CA with a decision, stick with BB and get a few plane kills or break off and go hunt alone... which usually ends up bad anyway.

 

Just does not seem like the current system is working for CAs at high tier.  

 

This is why its critical to take the range upgrade at t9 and t10 for all cvs, and why mogami, with its range upgrade via skills, is a better t8 than the new orleans. Even then however yeah, a cruiser will find itself unable to fire sometimes, particularaly in 4 cv games where getting the most out of your AA protection is critical to victory.

 

Cruisers really dont do that much damage. In games where carriers can do over 200k damage, an agressive cruiser averaging maybe 20-30k damage more than a more defensive one will manage to scrape up through potshots is really not as big a help to the team as making sure the cruiser is alive to respond/cap reset/screen when its needed. Some of the best t10 games ive been in see me doing 5k damage, but getting a couple caps in and shooting down a couple dozen planes, while dispersion debuffing the rest. Only getting to shoot at a destroyer, hitting it a couple times, and then having a team mate finish it.

 

I always just play to win. Particularly on domination, getting yourself killed, which can happen in an instant on a cruiser, is more a disservice to your team than the 20k damage you might have spammed at some BB somewhere.

 

As far as rewards go? Eh, yeah the games reward model isnt perfect, but i dont find it to be so horrible, i didnt really have any 'this grind is taking forever' moments while grinding up the cruiser line.

 

As ive always said, playing a t10 cruiser is not a smart move unless you are divisioning with it and would have been bumped up to t10 to the matchmaker anyway. I see mogami and baltimore to be the ideal stopping places for the two lines. Zao is good, but not two tiers good. So soloing with it seems like a way to just get the game stacked against you. A midway+yamato on one team and a t10 ca and dd on another team is not balance.

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