"Swedish Never were"

[Eyeless_Camper]

De Champs class Armoured ship

"De Champ" 1937

8000tons

160xx19x5,7m

50000 shp, 28kts

6x 210mm guns (8.2 inch)

8x 120mm guns (4.7 inch)

8x 40mm AA guns (1.5 inch)

4x 533mm torpedoes (21 inch)

1 aircraft

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A modern monitor

"Monitor" 1934

8000ton

120x24x3,6m

6000shp, 12kts

2x 380mm guns (15 inch)

6x 100mm guns (4 inch)

8x 20mm AA guns (0.7 inch)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

HMS Gotland Hangarcruiser, to expensive got made into a aircraft carrying cruiser

"Hangarkryssare 1926"

4500ton

133x??x5m

27kts

6x 152mm guns (6 inch)

4x 75mm guns (3 inch)

8x 40mm AA guns (1.5 inch)

12x aircrafts

2x catapults

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

some pretty cool designes we had for ships that never got realised

proves that even the most unlikely nations had plans for nice ships that might fit a tech tree :Smile_great:

[Skygunner]

What is the source of these ships?   I like to consider myself rather knowledgeable about paper ships but I've never encounter such designs before or proposals for ships of their type.

[JeeWeeJ]

I'd hate to be the commanding officer of that monitor when it fires... :Smile_ohmy: insta-popped eardrums on the bridge!

[Eyeless_Camper]

We had more, although the man i got the pictures from had not redrawn them from the book.

 

Source: Från Ingegerd till Visby. Svenska örlogsfartyg under 140 år 1860-2000.

 

in English: From Ingegerd to Visby. Swedish Warships during 140 years 1860-2000.

[Skygunner]

Yes, I just found that and am currently consulting my swedish speaking friend for help on this,  till they get back to me, there's a few things I'm seeing that makes my brain suspicious.

 

 

First,  "monitor",  is armed supposedly with a Triple 15in gun.   As far as I can remember there's never been a triple 15in gun ever used anywhere,  I'd be amazed if Bofors was able to produce one., Likewise the design is just so....sloppy....it just doesn't look Swedish,  if that makes any sense.   Warships tend to follow a trend and that design just doesn't match any trend in sweden or any navy.   Finally Monitor is very, very slow,  when it really wouldn't need to be.  

 

Another thing about the design,  the bridge is offset to starbord, not directly under the gun, but still,  it's very...very awkward.

 

 

For Hangarkryssare,  it seems almost in line with Italian proposals at the time.  They are the only nation I know that used a clear stern.  The idea being that the aft is a handling deck for seaplanes, landing in the water next to the ship then hoisted on board and brought direct into the hanger via large doors.   Problem is, I don't see any handling equipment at all for seaplanes and the handling deck is relatively small.  

 

 

De Champ looks very....well...cruiser ish.   In fact it looks an awful lot like the post war Tre Kronor class...maybe a little too much like it?   It also lacks a catapult, which just seems strange,  with that much aft deck to work with there would probably be a Gotland style quasi-seaplane carrier deck.

 

 

 

Dunno,  I'll get digging and see what I can find on these guys, if they are indeed genuine, then they'd make Sweden just that much more fun.  I'm not saying they aren't real....(yet), just that the artistic license that was taken to make these, maybe went too artsy.

[Eyeless_Camper]

oops, was not aware it said x3 15", it was supposed to say x2, my bad :Smile_unsure:

 

edit:

 

I find alot of mentioning about the Ansaldo ship proposal, it was around the time as  "Thörnell skeppet proposal"

 

Thörnellskeppet

8000ton

130m

22,25kn

4x254mm

4x15,2cm

(originally 6x12cm)

40mm lvakan

belt: 130mm+40mm

deck: 25+40mm

 

And

 

There was a proposal from the famous Ansaldo, again a coastal battleship in 1941:

17000tons

3x2 280mm Guns

4x2 120mm Guns

5x2 57mm AA

2x2 40mm AA

6x1 20mm AA

120mm Deck

200mm Belt Armour.

The navy deemed it too big and heavy and started to center around a lighter Navy, of light cruisers from which the Tre Kronor were born.

[Skygunner]

Well, I was right about the arstyness of it.

 

 

 

Are you capable of reading swedish? If so I have an article that needs skimming.   Above is the original sketch that the shipbucket drawing was based off of.......they differ a lot which leads me to believe the others are equally different.  I'll keep digging, until then have some more swedish designs.

 

Possibly what is listed as Da Champ

 

 

 

Proposals for an updated coastal battleship

[Eyeless_Camper]

Yah, i got a pretty good knowledge of Swedish (as i am from Sweden) :Smile_glasses:

[Skygunner]

Eyeless_Camper, on 10 September 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Yah, i got a pretty good knowledge of Swedish (as i am from Sweden) :Smile_glasses:

This apparently contains information about the  Hangarkryssare

http://runeberg.org/...1931s&page=0031


So far I've gatherd that although it looks like a CV, that isn't the intention,  it is the design that eventually became Gotland.   No wheeld aircraft, only seaplanes,  catapults are on the flight deck, handling deck is aft.


(all the designs are starting to look the same in my head, we need to colour code them)

Also found an early concept of Gotland with an extra turret forward and two catapults instead of 1.


There's enough different designs that Sweden can probably take its own Cruiser branch.....

[Eyeless_Camper]

Ah, from what i gathered from the article, it "looked like" what americans and brits called Aircraft carrier.

They deemed some "50" meters was enough for the planes to take off, but not to land, they had to do that in the water nearby and get picked up.

but later on they deemed a flight deck was not needed because the catapults had been "perfected" enough for them to take Cruiser with aircrafts on instead.

 

What is also open in the back of the hangarcruiser was Mine rails, in order for the ship to be able to mine waterways aswell :Smile_smile:

[Skygunner]

Eyeless_Camper, on 10 September 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Ah, from what i gathered from the article, it "looked like" what americans and brits called Aircraft carrier.
They deemed some "50" meters was enough for the planes to take off, but not to land, they had to do that in the water nearby and get picked up.
but later on they deemed a flight deck was not needed because the catapults had been "perfected" enough for them to take Cruiser with aircrafts on instead.

What is also open in the back of the hangarcruiser was Mine rails, in order for the ship to be able to mine waterways aswell :Smile_smile:

It's a curious ship to say the least, really it's along the lines of ships such as the Commandant Teste, Giuseppe Miraglia, Albatross, all the Japanese ones... etc, etc....it just carries a cruisers arament, speed, and armour......very curious indeed..


The swedish aircraft cruisers were rather unique,  Japan being the only nation with something similar,  perhaps if we dig a little bit more, we can find enough to entice the devs into including such unique ships in game.

I know they already said no minelayers will be in game, but I can't help but feel lthat later down the line, especially when UC comes to WoWS, the desire for passive defense ships will increase.   Good to know.

[Eyeless_Camper]

I have seen ALOT of Swedish ship designes on the internet, more then half of them are problaby fake, but there is alot more then you might think.

It would not suprise me if Sweden had designes to fill almost every line, Cruisers/Destroyers/ partly battleships

[Skygunner]

Eyeless_Camper, on 10 September 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I have seen ALOT of Swedish ship designes on the internet, more then half of them are problaby fake, but there is alot more then you might think.
It would not suprise me if Sweden had designes to fill almost every line, Cruisers/Destroyers/ partly battleships

Oh I'm aware they had a lot,   I love project warships and have gotten used to eyeing fakeness,  why the drawings above provoked suspicion.  Whoever made went a little too artistic.    That being said,  just from what I already know,  sweden could eaisy get a full on cruiser branch, which a sorta bannanna branch for aircraft cruisers

They had a very large number of nicely done coastal battleships, and obviously quite a few designs for them.....we'd have to see what rates as a "tier".  Their coastal BB's may have to be re-rated as Heavy Cruisers for in game balance,  but even still, I know of 4 so far....dig dig dig.

[JeeWeeJ]

Really nice ships guys! Keep it up! I'd love to see a swedish line (or a combined international line of smaller naval countries), so the more you guys find, the bigger the chance of that happening!

[Eyeless_Camper]

Thinking about visiting "Krigsarkivet" in Stockholm (War archive)

Everything that is released to the public about ship designes and that is noted there, best source ever, cant find anything better

[Skygunner]

Eyeless_Camper, on 10 September 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Thinking about visiting "Krigsarkivet" in Stockholm (War archive)
Everything that is released to the public about ship designes and that is noted there, best source ever, cant find anything better

I'll have to add that to my list of places to visit during my European excursion later next year.    FWA HAHAHAHA,   That and the Vasa.  Sorry took a bit of a break from ships to grind out my ARL-44.   Warships, warships.

[Colddawg]

i would definitely want that monitor!  looks like fun!

[ElvenLord]

From a book that I have...

 

Sweden had at least one pocket battleship: The Gustaf V

7635 tons

11.1 guns x4 (dual turret mounts)

Launched 1918

Also confirmed this information with Jane's Fighting ships of WWI

[Tanz]

I like the Hangarkryssare 1926...mini CV looks awesome :Smile_ohmy: ...no way anyone would want to sink you in that cool little thing :Smile_veryhappy:

[Eyeless_Camper]

ElvenLord, on 14 September 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

From a book that I have...

Sweden had at least one pocket battleship: The Gustaf V
7635 tons
11.1 guns x4 (dual turret mounts)
Launched 1918
Also confirmed this information with Jane's Fighting ships of WWI

Actually it was a "Coastal battleship"
She was one out of 3 ships in the Sverige (Sweden) class, lead ship was Sverige, together with Drottning Victoria and Gustav V


By end of ww2 Sweden had
7 Coastal battleships (4 older ones)
8 Cruisers
28 Destroyers
26 Submarines
42 Minesweepers
20 Motor torpedo boats
16 old patrol boats
6 Depot and special ships

[Ariecho]

Not trying to be a spelling nazi here, but do me a favor please, change the title to "Swedish never were"

[Eyeless_Camper]

Ah sorry, not a native English speaker here :Smile_unsure:

[Ariecho]

Neither am I, and not a big deal anyway.  Was just hurting my eyes :)