Fail Divisions

[justmeman117]

Before I say anything, play this to set the mood:

 

 

Let the Fail Macro Spam begin:

 

 

T6 battle, T3 ship

 

D1: 3+4

 

 

T4 battle, T2 ship

D1: 2+3

 

 

T4 battle, T2 ship

D1: 2+3

D1: 3+4+4

D2: 3+3+4

 

 

 

 

T4 battle, T2 ship

D1: 2+4

 

 

 

T4 battle, T2 ship

D1: 2+3

 

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Teir 2 ships arent supposed to get teir 4 battles. The "2 teir spread" rule doesnt apply to them because they simply cant handle teir 4 games.

 

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T5 battle, T2 ship

D3: 2+3+3

D4: 3+4 (Sorry, I forgot to highlight this one)

 

 

T7 battle, T4 ship

D1: 4+5

 

 

T7 battle, T4 ship

D1: 4+5

D1: Ignore, I mis-highlighted this one

D2: Note, because of the horrendous MM Battleships get, D2 on the enemy team has dragged a T4 Langley onto their team, despite being the same teir... I do not recommend divisioning up with battleships in anything other than another battleship for this reason. My Atlanta tore through that langley's paper airplanes.

 

 

T7 battle, T3 ship

D1: 3+4 (again, horrendous MM for BBs)

D1: 6+7

 

 

 

T9 battle, MULTIPLE T4 ships.

 

D1: 5+6

D2: 4+7

D3: 4+6

 

Why was this a T9 game? because there were so many [edited]fail divisions, the entire matchmaking system FAILED when putting this game together.

 

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Now, I had SO MANY images to post of fail divisions, that the forum wouldnt let me make the post. So, I've only uploaded the ones where fail divisions had a negative consequence on team balance. To see the 16 or 17 other images of fail divisions, here's some that i uploaded to IMGUR:

 

http://justmeman117.imgur.com/all/

 

This is really unacceptable. The staggering numbers of fail divisions in this game is SHOCKING, and it might say something about just how much of the player base in WoWs is brand new rather than coming over from WoT.

 

EXCUSE TIME (these are all the excuses when I've heard before when I point out a fail division in game).

 

"But but but, 2 teir spread"

 

This argument doesnt work.

 

1.) The MM works with what it has. If it doesnt have enough higher teir ships to fill a higher teir game, it'll put in lower teir ships. for example, If a T9 game doesnt have enough T8s and T9s, it'll start putting T7s and T6 battleships in... There are NO special exceptions if one of these T6 or T7 ships is divisioned up with a T4 or 5 ship. The MM goes based on the highest teir ship in the division.

 

2.) Doesnt count to T1 and T2 ships. T2 ship players, quit divisioning up with T4s.

 

3.) There is a REASON the MM goes by the top teir ship in the division. If it didnt, then fail divisions would get underteired just as much as overteired. This wouldnt be fair. imagine if a T10 got into a T1 game. This is why a division like that would instead see a T1 ship in a T10 game.

 

4.) ASSUMING the MM always put you in the appropriate 2 teir spread game, this could become an exploit for players. For one thing, it would be unfair to the underteir ship because they would always be guaranteed to be bottom teir. And, It would be used as an exploit for the higher teir ship to GUARANTEE their spot in a top teir battle. I suspect this is what's going on with all the T2+T4 divisions, the T4 is always trying to get into a top teir game, and probably taking advantage of T2 noobs to do so. Anyway, this is why the MM doesnt always follow that rule. Because it would be an exploit [edited]-bags could use to guarantee top teir spots at the expense of their division mate.

 

You know the MM doesnt always follow 2 teir spread for different tiered ship divisions... SO STOP TRYING TO RELY ON MM FOR IT. 1 teir difference is ALL IT TAKES to possibly royally screw over your entire team. Langleys and St. Louis' dont belong in teir 7 games. 

 

"It usually doesnt screw us over"

 

Yeah, welp, sometimes it does, and you shouldn't be taking that risk at the expense of your team mates.

Even if it DOESNT screw you over, the mere fact that you have a different teired ship division means your lowest teir could be taking up a slot a higher teir ship might've filled.

 

"Sometimes MM compensates by giving us more ships, or an outside of 2 teir range ship".

 

Now you're just playing with fire. MM will only do this if the ships are availible, and as an ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT. In the loads of fail division games i've played I've seen this happen all of 1 or 2 times.

 

And again, you're trying to intentionally BREAK MM as an exploit. Frankly, I'd rather have 2 teir 7s than a teir 4 and a teir 9. there's a reason MM tries to do 2 teir spread. In fact, it's a bit heavy handed to make BOTH the "2 teir spread" excuse and the "break MM" excuse at the same time (which I actually have heard before).

 

"The MM is broken for not putting us in an appropriate 2 teir spread game"

 

NOOOOOO, YOURE broken for expecting that out of an MM designed to keep people from overly exploiting it. It doesnt work, stop expecting it to.

 

"Lol, you're just mad because you have no friends, EHUEHUEHUE"

 

the most common response I hear from the dipsh!ts in these fail divisions when I point them out is not an excuse, but instead a vulgar personal attack of some kind, which says a lot about just how much they actually think through their actions to begin with.

 

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Could you please... you know... STOP? It's getting annoying the staggering numbers of fail divisions I see in this game. There are some games where i see more fail divisions than normal ones.

 

It doesnt work out well in world of tanks, so why the hell are you guys expecting it to work here? In fact, I quite like this community because it seems a bit less toxic than the world of tanks one... BUT IF NOTHING ELSE, THE WOT COMMUNITY KNOWS NOT TO FUCKIN FAIL PLATOON.

 

Look, if you're new to this game, and reading this, just know that you should NEVER EVER EVER division up with someone in a different teir ship than your own. Dont do it, and MM wont ever screw you over for it.

 

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It is YOUR responsibility as a player not to screw over your team by divisioning up with people outside your teir. If you cannot handle that responsibility, then maybe you shouldnt be given the choice. If this community cant handle basic division practices, then I'd like to make the suggestion to WG that they remove the option of different teir divisions, just as they are already planning to remove the option to fail platoon in world of tanks.

 

Go ahead and argue with me in a post below if you want. I probably wont respond because i've already heard most of the excuses for this behavior, and nothing you'll say will sway me of my current opinion.

[Hunter_Steel]

1 tier difference is fine for divisions as a tier 3 can sink a tier 7. I've already done it a few times while divisioning up with friends. 

 

You know what's a real fail division?  Taking a tier 2 into a tier 9 battle by platooning with a tier 8+ ship. If you're more than 2 tiers in diffirence, don't do it.

 

~Hunter

[justmeman117]

1 tier difference is fine for divisions as a tier 3 can sink a tier 7. I've already done it a few times while divisioning up with friends. 

 

You know what's a real fail division?  Taking a tier 2 into a tier 9 battle by platooning with a tier 8+ ship. If you're more than 2 tiers in diffirence, don't do it.

 

~Hunter

 

already explained why 1-2 teir difference divisions can be used as an exploit, and breaks MM. read the post fully before posting (i know you probably didnt because of how quick you responded).

 

A teir 3 tank might be able to kill a teir 7 in WOT... but most people dont actually force MM to try it. If it's not OK there, then why is ok here?

 

Note those teir 3 and 4 ships in some of those teir 7 games didnt fair so well. frankly, id prefer if you were in a teir 5-7 ship than a teir 4 ship if I saw you on my team, regardless of whether or not you CAN sink a teir 7.

[Cuesta_Rey]

I just fail to understand why ships of different tiers will so often division together. I've not played a WG product yet where that turns out well for the team of those who do it. More times than not, it's going to cause you to lose. It may be true that a low tier ship could sink a high tier ship. But if everything else is equal, captains trained, and so forth, it just isn't going to happen for obvious reasons. 

 

[Hunter_Steel]

As such I can still platoon a Wyoming with a Tenryu and we'd still have the same win chance. If my friend is grinding and I only have T4 & above, I'll use my T4s to division his tier 3. That St.Lo with the Clemson isn't a fail division, it's a good division because St.Lo's can burn anything in the tiers he'll see.

 

This is not WoT where a tier 3 tank can't even hurt a tier 5.

 

I did read your post. I watch anime in subbed form so I learned to read fast. I also skipped the rest of your screenshots after the first 4.

As such, this is not about breaking MM, it's about having fun with your division mates.

 

~Hunter

[MirrorTank]

 

already explained why 1-2 teir difference divisions can be used as an exploit, and breaks MM. read the post fully before posting (i know you probably didnt because of how quick you responded).

 

A teir 3 tank might be able to kill a teir 7 in WOT... but most people dont actually force MM to try it. If it's not OK there, then why is ok here?

 

Note those teir 3 and 4 ships in some of those teir 7 games didnt fair so well. frankly, id prefer if you were in a teir 5-7 ship than a teir 4 ship if I saw you on my team, regardless of whether or not you CAN sink a teir 7.

 

Actually a tier 3 cant kill a tier 7 in wot , but can do it in wows

 

Still I think that WG should implement a limit to the tier spread on platoon/divisions in all games, like a +-1 spread.

 

So If I put a tier 5 vehicle, my teammate can choose a tier 4/5/6, if he picks 5, third one again will be able to choose between tier 4/5/6. If second player picks 4/6 third player will be forced to put a tier 5.

[Johnsonian]

+-1 for divisions is fine, you're right i didn't read your full post because its ludicrous(a lot of "" everywhere and whining for the most part).  a tier 3 and tier 4 teaming up is fine, it's only when you find tier 6/7 with a tier 3/4 is a problem.

[Berean01]

I fail to see where one ship is a mere one tier below the other as a problem. If it was say a tier one with a tier eight then sure its a fail division. But a tier three with a tier four isn't a fail division.

[6Xero9]

So I noticed in one of the examples there was a St Louis that did better than a Kongo...

[4wilds]

OP, I don't think you understand what the term fail division means. 

 

A fail division is a T8 Amagi tiering with a T5 Omaha, a Tier 5 New York tiering with a T2 Chester, a T6 Cleveland tiering with a T1 Hashidate, or a T10 Yamato tiering with a T4 Phoenix.

 

What you were seeing is not the true definition of fail divisions. 

[DemonicSentiment]

I get that you want to win... but labeling divisions that are within a single tier of one another as "fail"... not sure what to say about that tbh

[Poidachi]

These aren't fail divisions. Fail divisions are tier 10s bringing in tier 3s just to mess with people. These are mostly MM messing divisions up a bit. MM gets a bit wonky with divs.

[BigPone]

I fail to see where one ship is a mere one tier below the other as a problem. If it was say a tier one with a tier eight then sure its a fail division. But a tier three with a tier four isn't a fail division.

 

We always division the same tier but +/- 1 is not bad. 2 is pushing it. 

[collisionSpace]

While it may make things tough for the lower tier ship, I can't consider a one tier spread in a division to be a fail, doing so would remove almost all of the point of playing with friends.

As long as players can make these divisions that you detest, they will, after all the game allows it. I'd imagine that WG won't change it anytime soon as they want more players but if a concise, well thought out rationale was put to them, who knows.

[Poidachi]

 

We always division the same tier but +/- 1 is not bad. 2 is pushing it. 

 

10 and 8 is okay. 8 and 6 is meh. 6 and 4 is not that good. 4 and 2 is pretty bad. 

 

Tiers work rather strangely. 

[Menemy]

You think that's bad? I had a game with Nagato facing Yamatos with a fail div of Atago, Atago and Tenryuu

[Samalander]

The thing that I think is really sad is that WG CAN stop "Fail" divisions. In the XBox One and XBox 360 editions of WoT, the platoon system will not allow a platoon with a 2 tier(I'm pretty sure it's 2 tiers) difference to enter a battle. My question is if they can do that for consoles, WHY can't or won't they do it for the computer versions of their games?

 

Just my two pennies......

[Fodder4U]

Where is there a fail division in any of those pics? 1 to 2 tier spread does NOT constitute a fail division IMO. When you have a Montana divisioned with an Erie that is a fail division. Any thing more than a 2 tier difference should be disallowed.

[justmeman117]

 

Actually a tier 3 cant kill a tier 7 in wot , but can do it in wows

 

Still I think that WG should implement a limit to the tier spread on platoon/divisions in all games, like a +-1 spread.

 

So If I put a tier 5 vehicle, my teammate can choose a tier 4/5/6, if he picks 5, third one again will be able to choose between tier 4/5/6. If second player picks 4/6 third player will be forced to put a tier 5.

 

I'd like to point out that heat ammo for the Cruiser 2's 3.7 inch howitzer has 110mm of pen and 270 dmg... which is enough to pen a Tiger 1 from the front.

 

And if a teir 3 cruiser 2 tooning up with a teir 4 light tank, only to get into a teir 7 game, is not OK in World of Tanks, then I fail to see how a teir 3 St Louis divisioning up with a tier 4 Wyoming only to get into a teir 7 game is any different... REGARDLESS of the fact that the St Louis can still do damage.. yeah, sure, he can still do damage, but the space he's taking up on the team is 1,000 times better spent on a ship at the teir the game is supposed to be played at (teir 5-7).

[justmeman117]

 

10 and 8 is okay. 8 and 6 is meh. 6 and 4 is not that good. 4 and 2 is pretty bad. 

 

Tiers work rather strangely. 

 

I've no problems with 10 and 8, simply because the MM is literally incapable of dragging the 8 out of the 2 tier spread. What's MM gonna do, drag the T8 into a T11 game? T10 is the cap, so it's not that big a deal. Still kinda bothers me, because it guarantees the T8 will get into a T10 game, when his spot could've easily been taken up by another T9 or T10 ship, but whatevs, at least it's in the spread.

[justmeman117]

Where is there a fail division in any of those pics? 1 to 2 tier spread does NOT constitute a fail division IMO. When you have a Montana divisioned with an Erie that is a fail division. Any thing more than a 2 tier difference should be disallowed.

 

I would label a "fail division" as a division where the potential exists for a ship to be dragged out of the 2 teir spread... Not only does the potential exist in every one of these pictures, but they are examples of where just that has happened.

 

Teir 3s and 4s in Teir 7 games, teir 2s in teir 4 and 5 games, and the scariest, one has teir 4s dragged into a teir 9 game.

 

But these are just examples of where the worst HAS happened... I'd label a fail division any division where the POTENTIAL for it to happen exists... which is any division that isnt all equal teir ships.

[justmeman117]

While it may make things tough for the lower tier ship, I can't consider a one tier spread in a division to be a fail, doing so would remove almost all of the point of playing with friends.

As long as players can make these divisions that you detest, they will, after all the game allows it. I'd imagine that WG won't change it anytime soon as they want more players but if a concise, well thought out rationale was put to them, who knows.

 

Not really. I hang on to ships I like, and I division with friends in whatever teir ship they're playing. I have an erie, sampson, St Louis, a bunch of teir 4s, a nicholas, sims, atlanta, and atago.

 

... Im pretty much covered. I'll be able to division up with friends in whatever teir ship they've got (minus teir 6). If you're not covered, then dont division.

 

And you know what, you're excuse doesnt work because, guess what, WOT STILL has a very active platooning community, DESPITE the fact that different teir tanks in platoons is a big no no over there. Limiting the teirs for divisions wouldnt have that bad an effect on the divisioning community in world of warships.

[justmeman117]

OP, I don't think you understand what the term fail division means. 

 

Um, noooooo, a fail division is any division that has the potential to break MM by dragging a ship out of the 2 teir spread... Which can happen to literally any division that has different tier ships, regardless of how big the difference in tiers is.

[justmeman117]

So I noticed in one of the examples there was a St Louis that did better than a Kongo...

 

Eyup, and the T2 SAMPSON that St Louis was divsioned up with did WORSE than that AWFUL T5 Kongo player.

 

 

which is kinda my point ABOUT fail divisions. That Sampson shouldnt have even been in that game.

[OOM911]

 

I would label a "fail division" as a division where the potential exists for a ship to be dragged out of the 2 teir spread... Not only does the potential exist in every one of these pictures, but they are examples of where just that has happened.

 

Teir 3s and 4s in Teir 7 games, teir 2s in teir 4 and 5 games, and the scariest, one has teir 4s dragged into a teir 9 game.

 

But these are just examples of where the worst HAS happened... I'd label a fail division any division where the POTENTIAL for it to happen exists... which is any division that isnt all equal teir ships.

 

Actually that would also mean class as well since the classes of ships aren't matched the same way all the way down the lines.

 

So basically taking this to it's conclusion:

 

A fail division = A division where ships are not the same tier or type.

 

The tier spreads I see up top are fine in my opinion its the games they are getting into that are the problem.