Armor angling is nice and all...

[demonicwaffles]

Armor angling is nice and all... if people actually used AP when I would expect them to use AP.  Unfortunately HE is just too popular right now.  It works sometimes, but mostly instead of seeing shells bouncing off my nice angled armor I take a few thousand HE damage.  Armor angling: good idea, poorly executed.

 

Might just be my personal experience, is it just me or do y'all see this too?

[Admiral_Ice]

Real life design does not always = equivalent in arcade video game

[demonicwaffles]

Real life design does not always = equivalent in arcade video game

 

Clearly.  Sometimes knowing what you're doing actually makes things worse in these games.  From realistic point of view.

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

Armor angling is nice and all... if people actually used AP when I would expect them to use AP.  Unfortunately HE is just too popular right now.  It works sometimes, but mostly instead of seeing shells bouncing off my nice angled armor I take a few thousand HE damage.  Armor angling: good idea, poorly executed.

 

Might just be my personal experience, is it just me or do y'all see this too?

 

more would use AP if it was useful against anything but cruisers.

 

against a BB.  cruiser AP rounds are just to weak.  only BBs can get a reasonable dmg record using just AP.

 

against cruisers, AP from anything(DD, BB, Cruisers) can all citadel like mad(specially IJN cruisers). hell even HE can citadel cruisers! specially if tis a BB firing it.

 

so while you see alot of HE.  Cruiser players WISH people fired HE at them,  as AP seems to be the main ammo ripping them to shreds.

 

 

 

 

so lets say they give cruisers enough pen with AP to make it worth using.

yay for you, your armor angling now works....except.......now your beign citadelled as much as IJN Cruisers are.

 

and now you complain about that.

 

 

HE can bounce, it bounces AS MUCH as AP.

AP can fail to pen.  and HE can do 0 dmg(play atlanta and see proof as 60% of shots on a BB end up 0 dmg)

 

you just see HE doing more dmg because theres ALOT more shots from it hitting you. (due to ships using it having crap AP.  but having alot of rate of fire.     the BBs using AP fire slow.)

[Shadowrigger1]

I don't think I have ever seen HE "Bounce"

[RuinerZ]

 

more would use AP if it was useful against anything but cruisers.

 

against a BB.  cruiser AP rounds are just to weak.  only BBs can get a reasonable dmg record using just AP.

 

against cruisers, AP from anything(DD, BB, Cruisers) can all citadel like mad(specially IJN cruisers). hell even HE can citadel cruisers! specially if tis a BB firing it.

 

so while you see alot of HE.  Cruiser players WISH people fired HE at them,  as AP seems to be the main ammo ripping them to shreds.

 

 

 

 

so lets say they give cruisers enough pen with AP to make it worth using.

yay for you, your armor angling now works....except.......now your beign citadelled as much as IJN Cruisers are.

 

and now you complain about that.

 

 

HE can bounce, it bounces AS MUCH as AP.

AP can fail to pen.  and HE can do 0 dmg(play atlanta and see proof as 60% of shots on a BB end up 0 dmg)

 

you just see HE doing more dmg because theres ALOT more shots from it hitting you. (due to ships using it having crap AP.  but having alot of rate of fire.     the BBs using AP fire slow.)

 

I've had HE deal 0 damage a lot of times, but hey, it always sets the BBs on fire. So it works anyways.

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

 

I've had HE deal 0 damage a lot of times, but hey, it always sets the BBs on fire. So it works anyways.

 

thats a fire issue. not an HE issue.

 

and keep in mind they've changed fire twice now 

first change made it so your fire chance is lower vs higher tier targets.  but greater vs lower tier. (4.0.x)

 

aka Atlanta's 5% fire chance is less than 1% vs tier 9s. 

 

the 2nd change (4.1)

gave 203mm guns a +1% fire chance (as cruisers with 203mm guns are doing less dmg than BBs at those tiers and 203mm AP just isn't reliable)

and gave all 155,152,140,130,and 127(with the exception of the atlanta)   -1% fire chance (to a minimum of 10%   except Atlanta which is still at 5%)

 

 

 

the result?

tier for tier. BBs are still doing the most dmg of all classes(except CVs)

so fire/HE arguments against cruisers don't work as its not performing better than BBs.

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

I don't think I have ever seen HE "Bounce"

 

have you seen AP bounce?

 

and i mean bounce. not fail to pen.

 

AP and HE both bounce just as much. (same bounce animation)

 

but while AP fails to pen(just dissapears with no animation)

HE fails to do dmg(but still has the explosion animation)

 

 

[Admiral_Ice]

 

have you seen AP bounce?

 

 

 

I haven't seen it, but I sure have head that "ping" sound indicating my BB shots didn't do sheet

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

 

 

I haven't seen it, but I sure have head that "ping" sound indicating my BB shots didn't do sheet

 

yeah. AP has a seperate sound for bounce, fail to pen, overpen, and (for enemy) heavy dmg(or should i say lack of any sound)

but has 2 animations.  bounce and hit

 

HE has 2 sounds. bounce and explosion

and 2 animations. bounce and explosion

 

you'll actually see an atlanta firing at a Warspite doing 0 dmg per hit.  but the Warspite sees a ton of explosions and thinks that the 1k dmg from a different ship is actually 10k and will panic.

 

hence why Atlanta's biggest defense vs BBs is the psychological factor.

[BrushWolf]

Armor angling is the games equivalent to the real life immunity zone. People do use too much HE, they don't realize that over the long run AP will do more damage to an armored target that is the same class or smaller, BB to BB/CA, CA to CA/CL. The damage from HE itself is fine but the fire chance and the resulting damage from it feels too high even is the data says it is not. A small reduction in fire chance to 90% of the current rate would have little effect on the big picture but would be enough to be noticeable to the players that are constantly burning.

[demonicwaffles]

Armor angling is the games equivalent to the real life immunity zone. People do use too much HE, they don't realize that over the long run AP will do more damage to an armored target that is the same class or smaller, BB to BB/CA, CA to CA/CL. The damage from HE itself is fine but the fire chance and the resulting damage from it feels too high even is the data says it is not. A small reduction in fire chance to 90% of the current rate would have little effect on the big picture but would be enough to be noticeable to the players that are constantly burning.

 

THIS

[4wilds]

I'm still baffled by players in Nagatos and New Mexicos who fire HE at me in my BBs. Feel free to drop the flaming turds on my deck and I'll just continue to citadel you. 

[Shadowrigger1]

 

have you seen AP bounce?

 

and i mean bounce. not fail to pen.

 

 

 

 

I certainly have seen it bounce,   off of me, and off of them.    you get the audible ricochet sound, and you can visually see the spark as it bounces away due to angling.

[Admiral_Ice]

I'm still baffled by players in Nagatos and New Mexicos who fire HE at me in my BBs. Feel free to drop the flaming turds on my deck and I'll just continue to citadel you. 

 

 

Likely cause they don't know or "forgot" to switch to AP at match start. I really wish BB's would just auto load AP instead of HE

[Xenomancers]

Well OP here is the thing , unless you are facing a BB, you don't really need to angle that extreme (at least not to the point you are losing shots on your rear turrets.) Crusier AP is only dangerous to a flat broadside (like under 30 degree angel). BB's got better pen so you are gonna want to completely box them out and show them the thinnest profile possible.

 

Angling vs a cruiser is smart - because even if they are hitting you with he - they could be doing more damage to you if you were a bigger target presented AND OR have citadels showing for AP.

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

 

I certainly have seen it bounce,   off of me, and off of them.    you get the audible ricochet sound, and you can visually see the spark as it bounces away due to angling.

 

HE has the same sound. same animation.

Armor angling is the games equivalent to the real life immunity zone. People do use too much HE, they don't realize that over the long run AP will do more damage to an armored target that is the same class or smaller, BB to BB/CA, CA to CA/CL. The damage from HE itself is fine but the fire chance and the resulting damage from it feels too high even is the data says it is not. A small reduction in fire chance to 90% of the current rate would have little effect on the big picture but would be enough to be noticeable to the players that are constantly burning.

 

go for it.

as i keep saying. the issue is fire. not HE

 

i still say scrap the current fire system and switch it from scaled dmg to fixed dmg based on caliber. (which means fire chance would all be buffed to the same level for every ship, with dmg being the difference instead of fire chance)

currently bigger guns give more fire chance (except atlanta....who has less than 76mm guns xD)

[Shadowrigger1]

 

HE has the same sound. same animation.

 

 

That I did not know..   I have been educated.

[SirMuttonChops]

Right now HE is still the go to round for most players learning the ropes (and even some more experienced players) as it can still deliver damage, either primary damage in the form of explosion damage, or else secondary damage in the form of fire.

 

In this sense, the NPC ships in Co-Op can actually be considered to be better than the average player as it's not uncommon for me to check by after battle report and see that I was shot as by nothing but AP rounds. This is AP rounds from Battleships, cruisers, and destroyers.

 

In those scenarios angling works great as you can watch the shells bounce or fail to pen from cruisers, destroyers and even other Battleships. But in those situations the NPCs are fearless and cruisers will actually get close to you so that their AP can actually pen your sides. It always confuses me as to how a cruiser can score 4K and 5K hits on my Battleships using HE, only to have to remind myself it's more than like to be AP.

 

In Randoms where most people are wanting to do as much damage as possible, then HE is really the go to as it can do reliable damage, though short of full potential damage if they're not matching the ammo type for the target.

[demonicwaffles]

I don't think it has sunk in for a lot of players that AP is a miracle round if you learn to aim and have a little luck.  One or two salvos from a BB can nuke most CAs instead of spamming HE for five minutes.  Even CAs against BBs can do more damage with AP if they are at the right range and hit the right spot.

[ButtonsPushed]

I'm still baffled by players in Nagatos and New Mexicos who fire HE at me in my BBs. Feel free to drop the flaming turds on my deck and I'll just continue to citadel you. 

 

I also have noticed a lot if BB's shooting HE these days. 

[MrDeaf]

Well, okay. If you are angled and I am in a cruiser, then I am more likely to fire HE at you, because my AP is likely to bounce.

[Menemy]

 

more would use AP if it was useful against anything but cruisers.

 

against a BB.  cruiser AP rounds are just to weak.  only BBs can get a reasonable dmg record using just AP.

 

against cruisers, AP from anything(DD, BB, Cruisers) can all citadel like mad(specially IJN cruisers). hell even HE can citadel cruisers! specially if tis a BB firing it.

 

so while you see alot of HE.  Cruiser players WISH people fired HE at them,  as AP seems to be the main ammo ripping them to shreds.

 

 

 

 

so lets say they give cruisers enough pen with AP to make it worth using.

yay for you, your armor angling now works....except.......now your beign citadelled as much as IJN Cruisers are.

 

and now you complain about that.

 

 

HE can bounce, it bounces AS MUCH as AP.

AP can fail to pen.  and HE can do 0 dmg(play atlanta and see proof as 60% of shots on a BB end up 0 dmg)

 

you just see HE doing more dmg because theres ALOT more shots from it hitting you. (due to ships using it having crap AP.  but having alot of rate of fire.     the BBs using AP fire slow.)

 

If you got out of your Cleveland or Atlanta you would know that 20.3cm guns do deal quite a bit of damage with AP.

[demonicwaffles]

 

If you got out of your Cleveland or Atlanta you would know that 20.3cm guns do deal quite a bit of damage with AP.

 

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

 

If you got out of your Cleveland or Atlanta you would know that 20.3cm guns do deal quite a bit of damage with AP.

 

sure.....

Atago or Aoba  (i dont play cleveland anymore btw) do so many citadels to BBs.......not

 

 

 

 

i should have used HE.

cause the AP is so unreliable it just was NOT worth it

 

 

 

its easy to pen a cruiser citadel. plus they have half the hp of BBs.

but penning a BB citadel. good luck.