Biggest issue I have had thus far.

[Xenomancers]

Retraining captains. 

 

After just recently finding out that you can retrain captains via premium ships I thought I had found the solution but...No. The issue is the time required to retrain is just too high. You can take a look at my games in Atlanta - those are all games retraining my DD captain that I am going to use for my Fletcher. I have been grinding hard on that sucker - got 80k experience on it but I am not even half way to retaining my cap.  Also not all the exp I earn is not going to the captain retraining - it appears to be only base exp - which is super weak. IMO - retraining a captain should not be a grind. It should be at most a 15 game inconvenience which could still function as the same gold and coin sink that it currently does - without making me have to spend a week retraining a captain. Anyone else agree? It's not even helping WG make money - grinding credits on my Atalanta is actually costing them money because this ship makes 300k a game easy - that is gold I am not buying. Sure they are forcing me to earn a lot of elite XP - guess what I already have plenty of?

[IronWolfV]

Yeah I have to agree after a certain point retraining skippers gets nuts. However it can be a mixed hlessing. If you need to buy equipment for that new ship and or buy that ship itself, you can build up enough credits while training to do so.

 

 

But I do indeed agree training a skipper has gone nuts.  Accelerated Captains training needs to show up.

[alexf24]

Agreed. I complain about the same issue. Once your captain goes past row 3, requirements get exceedingly high. I have been retraining a Nicholas captain in Atlanta forever.

 

At least, training should be accelerated somewhat on a premium ship.

[_BloodHawk_]

I agree it does seem to be very difficult/costly to re-train captains. Low tiers are fine, just a few games, but the higher the Captain level, the exp needed is just crazy. I moved my old 11 point Phoenix captain to my Iowa and I would have had to play 100 games just to re-train him, and then still might not have been there. (I just paid the 500)

[Crucis]

This entire thing about retraining captains needs to be re-examined.  At low tiers, it's not worth it at all to take a mildly skilled captain and move him up from, say, a tier 3 to a tier 4 ship because the amount of XP needed to retrain him would be about the same or even greater than the number of XP required to fully elite the ship and move on to the next ship, at which time you'd need to start all over again.  And at the other end when you have a highly skilled captain, the number of XP required to complete retraining (I assume that you've spend the 200K credits for the 50% retraining, rather than doing it from scratch) is probably so high that it can seem to take forever.

 

I've found that the best thing to do is to spend the 25 doubloons and start a new ship with a new 3 skill point captain.  25 doubloons is entirely affordable, 3 skill points is a nice starting point.  But this does require you to be willing to spend a little money and buy a small amount of doubloons, which IMO is worth it if only for new captains and dismounting equipment modules.  (OTOH, 500 doubloons to fully retrain a captain on a new ship seems obscenely expensive compared to 25 db for a band new +3 skill point captain.)

 

 

[Xenomancers]

I agree it does seem to be very difficult/costly to re-train captains. Low tiers are fine, just a few games, but the higher the Captain level, the exp needed is just crazy. I moved my old 11 point Phoenix captain to my Iowa and I would have had to play 100 games just to re-train him, and then still might not have been there. (I just paid the 500)

Maybe thats what they want us to do - just pay 500 every time we research a new ship? Come on man - that's too steep. There is no way I can do that every time I move a captain.

[eblingus]

+1

[_BloodHawk_]

Maybe thats what they want us to do - just pay 500 every time we research a new ship? Come on man - that's too steep. There is no way I can do that every time I move a captain.

 

Oh indeed, it is a scam and waaaaaaay to steep, but Im not going to play a T9 ship with a defective captain either. Lower tier ships, I dont care about and just use the 200k/50% option, but not at tier 9/10.

[Xenomancers]

 

Oh indeed, it is a scam and waaaaaaay to steep, but Im not going to play a T9 ship with a defective captain either. Lower tier ships, I dont care about and just use the 200k/50% option, but not at tier 9/10.

Fortunate for me I am in need the credit income anyways with NC needing to be purchased and fletcher modules and such so I am going to just grind this out...It is insane though - I want to play my fletcher that I ground over 150 exp for but I can't.

[tortelloni]

So once again the same complaint for high tiers: money sink. And once again the SELF described affliction: money sink.

 

Seriously folks, if high tiers are too costly, why do you fool with them? If over tier VII is too expensive to be self sufficient then, why go over that tier? How many times did you burn your hands as kids when told, "hot!, don't touch that!"?

 

Same principal at work here: Tier VIII, Tier IX, and tier Tier X are hot, do not touch! Oh! But, but, but,...shiny ships! (burns hands, comes to forums to complain)

[Xenomancers]

So once again the same complaint for high tiers: money sink. And once again the SELF described affliction: money sink.

 

Seriously folks, if high tiers are too costly, why do you fool with them? If over tier VII is too expensive to be self sufficient then, why go over that tier? How many times did you burn your hands as kids when told, "hot!, don't touch that!"?

 

Same principal at work here: Tier VIII, Tier IX, and tier Tier X are hot, do not touch! Oh! But, but, but,...shiny ships! (burns hands, comes to forums to complain)

So wanting my captain to retrain in under 100 games is comparable to touching a hot stove when you have been told not to how? Did WG tell me not to play higher tier ships? Is it not in their interests that I do so? This complaint really isn't about money sink ether...I spent way more money buying atlanta than it cost to retrain a captain. I'm just pointing out that the system the have in place to reduce the training time is wack. Nothing wrong with point out something is wack. If you read the discussion you'd see none of these people are quitting because of this - or even stopping to play high tier. They simply don't think the amount of time required for retrain is acceptable. When you consider the fact I probably about grind a t8 ship in the time it takes to retrain a 14 point captain - something is wrong.

[_BloodHawk_]

So once again the same complaint for high tiers: money sink. And once again the SELF described affliction: money sink.

 

Seriously folks, if high tiers are too costly, why do you fool with them? If over tier VII is too expensive to be self sufficient then, why go over that tier? 

Earning money at higher tiers is easy. I have never lost money in my Iowa and usually net upwards of 200k a game, even running 52k worth of consumables. If you know how to play you will make money, the only issue was the cost/time to retrain a Captain for a higher tier ship.

 

The cost of those ships and upgraded is a different argument all together, but making money isnt an issue, its just how long it takes.

[BlazerSparta]

Yeah I have to agree after a certain point retraining skippers gets nuts. However it can be a mixed hlessing. If you need to buy equipment for that new ship and or buy that ship itself, you can build up enough credits while training to do so.

 

 

But I do indeed agree training a skipper has gone nuts.  Accelerated Captains training needs to show up.

 

I agree it does seem to be very difficult/costly to re-train captains. Low tiers are fine, just a few games, but the higher the Captain level, the exp needed is just crazy. I moved my old 11 point Phoenix captain to my Iowa and I would have had to play 100 games just to re-train him, and then still might not have been there. (I just paid the 500)

 

Look, WG coerced that guy into paying to retrain, so their strategy works.

 

WG is a company that needs to make money. Why are you asking WG to give up profits to make a better game?

 

They've obviously already decided that enough players pay to retrain their captains to make up for those who quit over such a trifling matter.

[IronWolfV]

 

 

Look, WG coerced that guy into paying to retrain, so their strategy works.

 

WG is a company that needs to make money. Why are you asking WG to give up profits to make a better game?

 

They've obviously already decided that enough players pay to retrain their captains to make up for those who quit over such a trifling matter.

 

Figures you just keep spouting the same old crap on repeat. Just admit it. You want the game on a silver platter, never have to lift a finger, spend a dime, but have this epic awesome game at your beck and call.

 

Just admit it.

[BlazerSparta]

 

Figures you just keep spouting the same old crap on repeat. Just admit it. You want the game on a silver platter, never have to lift a finger, spend a dime, but have this epic awesome game at your beck and call.

 

Just admit it.

 

Please point out how that particular bit of logic is incompatible with the ideas you've been spouting all along.

 

As YOU continuously point out, putting paywalls up in front of people WORKS. Years of complaining hasn't changed anything, so why are you complaining to WG to remove this particular paywall?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I've suggested changes that keep the same (ridiculously slow) rate of progression, that do nothing but overhaul the repair fee system so that instead of punishing people for being sunk and missing shots, it rewards people for staying alive and having good accuracy.

 

I fail to see how making the game less punishing towards the player is asking for the game on a silver platter. In the end, maknig the game less punishing towards the player benefits players by giving them a game that's more fun, potentially solves some high tier issues concerning people being unwilling to engage (why are you surprised people refuse to engage the enemy when engaging means they get focused down, then punished with a repair bill?), and is beneficial to WG in the long run as people are less likely to quit the game in frustration.

 

My suggested changes don't even make coming out of a game with negative income impossible, it just removes all involuntary routes though which your income from a match can be negative.

[IronWolfV]

 

Please point out how that particular bit of logic is incompatible with the ideas you've been spouting all along.

 

As YOU continuously point out, putting paywalls up in front of people WORKS. Years of complaining hasn't changed anything, so why are you complaining to WG to remove this particular paywall?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I've suggested changes that keep the same (ridiculously slow) rate of progression, that do nothing but overhaul the repair fee system so that instead of punishing people for being sunk and missing shots, it rewards people for staying alive and having good accuracy.

 

I fail to see how making the game less punishing towards the player is asking for the game on a silver platter. In the end, maknig the game less punishing towards the player benefits players by giving them a game that's more fun, potentially solves some high tier issues concerning people being unwilling to engage (why are you surprised people refuse to engage the enemy when engaging means they get focused down, then punished with a repair bill?), and is beneficial to WG in the long run as people are less likely to quit the game in frustration.

 

My suggested changes don't even make coming out of a game with negative income impossible, it just removes all involuntary routes though which your income from a match can be negative.

 

I read your suggestions. It makes it so people can play as much as they want without having to lift a finger.

 

No your way would flatly kill the game because WG wouldn't make any money.  And the bigger reason WG put that tier 8 wall is to do in tanks, keep the mid tiers poplated. So new players aren't stuck with ghost towns or trying to grind a new line isn't just a pain.

 

Sorry pal your way would break more than it fixes.

 

Now does wg have it right. No. They could stand to lessen the strain some and put in features like accelerated training like tanks. But your way. Pfft.

 

Hand the game on a silver platter to the players. Yay us, f WG. And guess what when you do that. Lights to out.

 

Start thinking of this when thinking of changes.  What will be good for players, but at the same time turn a profit for WG.

 

Don't do that, WG makes no money game dies.

[Xenomancers]

 

 

Look, WG coerced that guy into paying to retrain, so their strategy works.

 

WG is a company that needs to make money. Why are you asking WG to give up profits to make a better game?

 

They've obviously already decided that enough players pay to retrain their captains to make up for those who quit over such a trifling matter.

I totally understand why they do it. It's implemented poorly. Premium ships should reduce the amount to time required to train - so they spend less time on money making ships and more time in ships that don't make money. You see where I'm coming from? It makes no sense to force your customers to grind on their most efficient ships. 

[BlazerSparta]

 

I read your suggestions. It makes it so people can play as much as they want without having to lift a finger.

 

No your way would flatly kill the game because WG wouldn't make any money.  And the bigger reason WG put that tier 8 wall is to do in tanks, keep the mid tiers poplated. So new players aren't stuck with ghost towns or trying to grind a new line isn't just a pain.

 

Sorry pal your way would break more than it fixes.

 

Now does wg have it right. No. They could stand to lessen the strain some and put in features like accelerated training like tanks. But your way. Pfft.

 

Hand the game on a silver platter to the players. Yay us, f WG. And guess what when you do that. Lights to out.

 

Start thinking of this when thinking of changes.  What will be good for players, but at the same time turn a profit for WG.

 

Don't do that, WG makes no money game dies.

 

How? 

 

You have NEVER said exactly HOW my changes would ruin the game.

 

You just say 'this will never work', and go on to ramble about something else.

 

My changes DO NOT change progression speed. WG sells bonus content to increase progression speed.

 

Under my proposed changes, you progress JUST AS SLOWLY, making premium JUST AS EFFECTIVE in it's designed purpose. 

 

At high tiers, the elite consumables are basically mandatory for competitive play, and using those with my suggestions implemented can easily drop your credit income into the red.

 

 

The core of my proposed changes does ONE thing, and one thing only: Reduce the frustration caused by being punished for playing the game. The frustration of slow progression that WG relies so heavily on to sell content is still there. 

 

So please. tell me how not punishing players while retaining the grind will kill the game.

 

Want real life proof this works?

 

I present you: http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2010/03/framing-and-world-of-warcrafts-rest-system/

 

World of Warcraft. They seem to be doing fairly well these days, don't they?

 

My suggested repair fee changes are now linked in my signature. You can judge for yourself if it will kill the game instead of taking a WG whiteknight's word for it.

[BlazerSparta]

I totally understand why they do it. It's implemented poorly. Premium ships should reduce the amount to time required to train - so they spend less time on money making ships and more time in ships that don't make money. You see where I'm coming from? It makes no sense to force your customers to grind on their most efficient ships. 

 

Or, they could coerce you into spending 500 doubloons to retrain the captain. You still have to grind credits either way.

[IronWolfV]

 

How? 

 

You have NEVER said exactly HOW my changes would ruin the game.

 

You just say 'this will never work', and go on to ramble about something else.

 

My changes DO NOT change progression speed. WG sells bonus content to increase progression speed.

 

Under my proposed changes, you progress JUST AS SLOWLY, making premium JUST AS EFFECTIVE in it's designed purpose. 

 

At high tiers, the elite consumables are basically mandatory for competitive play, and using those with my suggestions implemented can easily drop your credit income into the red.

 

 

The core of my proposed changes does ONE thing, and one thing only: Reduce the frustration caused by being punished for playing the game. The frustration of slow progression that WG relies so heavily on to sell content is still there. 

 

So please. tell me how not punishing players while retaining the grind will kill the game.

 

Want real life proof this works?

 

I present you: http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2010/03/framing-and-world-of-warcrafts-rest-system/

 

World of Warcraft. They seem to be doing fairly well these days, don't they?

 

My suggested repair fee changes are now linked in my signature. You can judge for yourself if it will kill the game instead of taking a WG whiteknight's word for it.

 

Because all your idea would do is slow down progression, but at the end make it easily sustainable to sit at end tier.

 

Then once enough have gotten there, lower tiers become a ghost town and then to grind a new line, grind a bunch of XP at tier 10, buy your way to another is the only viable solutin.

 

you'd drive away new players because there is nobody to play against cep bots and that would take even longer.

 

Sorry your idea, is simply not viable.

[BlazerSparta]

 

Because all your idea would do is slow down progression, but at the end make it easily sustainable to sit at end tier.

 

Then once enough have gotten there, lower tiers become a ghost town and then to grind a new line, grind a bunch of XP at tier 10, buy your way to another is the only viable solutin.

 

you'd drive away new players because there is nobody to play against cep bots and that would take even longer.

 

Sorry your idea, is simply not viable.

 

I have also taken sustainable high tier gameplay into consideration. Notice where I ask for scaling consumable and camouflage costs?

 

High tier destroyers need every edge hey can get to drop their detection range, and high tier battleships in mid/close range need to pop repair party on cooldown to control all the fires.

 

Elite consumables and camouflage can provide a substantial credit sink, even more so if you use slight nerfs and buffs to make them effectively mandatory.

 

People play lower tiers for fun. Playing the same high tier ship game after game, every single time you log in is just boring. Simple as that. Maybe you don't want to be dodging planes let and right. You go play a T5 game for some variety. Low tiers are under no threat.

 

The survey I posted concerning repair fees indicated that ~90% of respondents would continue playing low tier ships for fun. Even assuming big error bars, it would be safe to assume more than half the top tier population would keep playing lower tier matches.

 

You concern that low tiers will become a ghost town is funny.

 

You know what's a ghost town right now? Higher tiers. A 2 minute wait for a match on my Ibuki or Yamato is nothing special. I'm amazed if MM on either of those ships pops before 30 seconds. When it does pop, I'm either one of a few T10s in a T7 match, or there's some poor T7 filling in the gaps in my T10 match.

[IronWolfV]

 

I have also taken sustainable high tier gameplay into consideration. Notice where I ask for scaling consumable and camouflage costs?

 

High tier destroyers need every edge hey can get to drop their detection range, and high tier battleships in mid/close range need to pop repair party on cooldown to control all the fires.

 

Elite consumables and camouflage can provide a substantial credit sink, even more so if you use slight nerfs and buffs to make them effectively mandatory.

 

People play lower tiers for fun. Playing the same high tier ship game after game, every single time you log in is just boring. Simple as that. Maybe you don't want to be dodging planes let and right. You go play a T5 game for some variety. Low tiers are under no threat.

 

The survey I posted concerning repair fees indicated that ~90% of respondents would continue playing low tier ships for fun. Even assuming big error bars, it would be safe to assume more than half the top tier population would keep playing lower tier matches.

 

You concern that low tiers will become a ghost town is funny.

 

You know what's a ghost town right now? Higher tiers. A 2 minute wait for a match on my Ibuki or Yamato is nothing special. I'm amazed if MM on either of those ships pops before 30 seconds. When it does pop, I'm either one of a few T10s in a T7 match, or there's some poor T7 filling in the gaps in my T10 match.

 

Oh my god. The reason why higher tiers are a ghost town. MOST PEOPLE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE YET! Good god man. Some of us like me have real life circumstances where we can't play the game like you or mikehuntz. Gonna take me months before I can get there and has little to do with the pay wall.

 

I mean seriously OBT has been going on what 2 months most of us are maybe tier 6 and 7. What you get for racing ahead of everyone.

 

It took tanks YEARS to have a viable tier 10 population and you expect it overnight it ships?

Get over yourself.

[BlazerSparta]

 

Oh my god. The reason why higher tiers are a ghost town. MOST PEOPLE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE YET! Good god man. Some of us like me have real life circumstances where we can't play the game like you or mikehuntz. Gonna take me months before I can get there and has little to do with the pay wall.

 

I mean seriously OBT has been going on what 2 months most of us are maybe tier 6 and 7. What you get for racing ahead of everyone.

 

It took tanks YEARS to have a viable tier 10 population and you expect it overnight it ships?

Get over yourself.

 

Yes, it will take people months to get there. That's irrelevant. What IS relevant is that people will still be playing at lower tiers. 

 

Are you having trouble replying to any of my points with actual substance? let's get back on track shall we:

 

- Will having more expensive consumables and buffs/nerfs to make consumables more important, coupled with the lower income be enough to provide a credit sink, especially at T10?

 

- Why will people not play low tiers for fun? Did everyone who responded to my survey just lie about it?

[IronWolfV]

 

Yes, it will take people months to get there. That's irrelevant. What IS relevant is that people will still be playing at lower tiers. 

 

Are you having trouble replying to any of my points with actual substance? let's get back on track shall we:

 

- Will having more expensive consumables and buffs/nerfs to make consumables more important, coupled with the lower income be enough to provide a credit sink, especially at T10?

 

- Why will people not play low tiers for fun? Did everyone who responded to my survey just lie about it?

 

Here's the question you haven't thought of. You can make consumables all the fancy deal you want. But if a player realizes under your system that he can basically sit there and continue to play without your face consumables, why would he?

 

See your fiasco does a few things. 

 

1. Relies on people using the consumables you postulate to keep them in check. Human response. Don't use them. Remain at tier 10.

 

2. The very issue you're crying about, lack of players at tier 10, you super saturate them at the top. Then you starve any new player from coming in because there is NO ONE TO PLAY AGAINST. All at tier 10.

 

3. Because of this situation, you make grinding a new line basically a pay wall which will alienate the playerbase already there.

 

4. Because 10s are sustainable, no need for premium account or ships hosing WG out of money.

 

Plain and simple you'd turn this game into Star Trek online, but without the content in the middle to get them to the end.

 

There is a reason they force us to go to mid tiers. KEEPS players there so newer players can join in and not have to wait for a match. Yes sucks right now at higher tiers because many have not achieved it.

 

But flipping the game end over end and then piss in off newer players so you can sit at tier 10 all day, is not the way to go.

 

You'd simply condemn the game to death another way. Good job there.

[BlazerSparta]

 

Here's the question you haven't thought of. You can make consumables all the fancy deal you want. But if a player realizes under your system that he can basically sit there and continue to play without your face consumables, why would he?

 

See your fiasco does a few things. 

 

1. Relies on people using the consumables you postulate to keep them in check. Human response. Don't use them. Remain at tier 10.

 

2. The very issue you're crying about, lack of players at tier 10, you super saturate them at the top. Then you starve any new player from coming in because there is NO ONE TO PLAY AGAINST. All at tier 10.

 

3. Because of this situation, you make grinding a new line basically a pay wall which will alienate the playerbase already there.

 

4. Because 10s are sustainable, no need for premium account or ships hosing WG out of money.

 

Plain and simple you'd turn this game into Star Trek online, but without the content in the middle to get them to the end.

 

There is a reason they force us to go to mid tiers. KEEPS players there so newer players can join in and not have to wait for a match. Yes sucks right now at higher tiers because many have not achieved it.

 

But flipping the game end over end and then piss in off newer players so you can sit at tier 10 all day, is not the way to go.

 

You'd simply condemn the game to death another way. Good job there.

 

1: Don't use them, and lose more. Or does losing suddenly not matter? Because IF you have nothing else to spend your credits on, why not spend them to boost your chances of winning?

 

2: I have a survey saying 90% of people will play low tier ships for fun. What do you have to prove me wrong?

 

3: Irrelevant because of 2.

 

4: Not if you're competitive and want to win pad your stats. And let's be honest, if you don't give a damn, you aren't paying anyway. Someone who doesn't care about hitting T10 won't be paying for premium to get to T10. Someone who doesn't care about winning at T10 isn't paying for premium to constantly play T10, or, they're good enough/have enough time that they don't need premium to play at T10.

 

Speaking of pissing off new players, I wonder what sucks more, waiting a little longer for a match, or being used as free credit piñatas for all the experienced players playing at mid tiers.