Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
BKKnightRider

Poor Teamwork Still Makes BBs Tedius Instead of Fun

36 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

After about three weeks I finally gave BBs another try in Random battles.  Same old same when it comes to poor teamwork in most games.  CV skippers can't or won't provide fighter CAP to help their TEAM.  Cruiser skippers still run off an abandon their heavy support instead of providing AA support and a DD screen for the BBs.  The BB's own AA that is usually basically useless.  And considering how good CV skippers NEVER miss with their TBs - which are the only weapon system in the game that NEVER misses when the skipper is good enough - it would be nice to have better AA.  If I am going to hit by from TBs REGARDLESS of how much I try to evade it would be nice to at least have the illusion that my AA is doing something useful by getting some kills ever time  It would be nice to have the illusion that we can give as good as we get.  Even the best gunners miss because the RNG gods ensure that they miss some times even when their/our aim is perfect.  And finally, their precision is still noticeably worse than cruisers at close to medium ranges.  Don't know yet if very close precision is any better.

 

Does anyone think that WG will ever actually provide good rewards for effective teamwork to provide an incentive for more players to attempt to provide good teamwork?  Clearly winning the battle is far from a sufficient incentive.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,533 posts
18,504 battles

The game is designed around individual rewards, Teamwork is merely an after thought because you can still do well if you pump out enough damage even with a loss.  Screening your BB's nd CV's doesn't give you points,  Shelling, sinking and Citadeling enemies does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
1,730 posts
1,193 battles

For a game that was originally billed to be based on teamwork (That was about two renditions of the game ago in alpha) there is practically no reward for teamwork and in fact not acting as a team is more rewarded. Battleships, especially those that are slow and short ranged liked the U.S. Standards, and the Kawachi are basically much like the T95 and similar vehicles in WoT. The team acts as a team and you stomp the other team or they leave you behind get killed and now you are alone and vulnerable and they expect you to somehow carry against far superior numbers.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
152 posts
3,656 battles

What Wargaming needs to do is provide incentives for teams to work together. Come up with missions that can only be completed by working as a team.

 

Tricky part is: how do you do this / what would the objective of such missions be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
48 posts
3,215 battles

What Wargaming needs to do is provide incentives for teams to work together. Come up with missions that can only be completed by working as a team.

 

Tricky part is: how do you do this / what would the objective of such missions be?

 

bufingf rewards for AA kills could be a step in a right direction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
1,730 posts
1,193 battles

Modifiers for proximity to team mates would also be a good step.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
402 posts

[Content Moderated - Non Constructive]
--Rhonico
 

 

You may think he is whining, but he is right about the lack of teamwork. But, in game like this getting people to work at a team and support each other is like asking god to help you win the lottery...it just is not going to happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
709 posts
6,496 battles

After about three weeks I finally gave BBs another try in Random battles.  Same old same when it comes to poor teamwork in most games.  CV skippers can't or won't provide fighter CAP to help their TEAM.  Cruiser skippers still run off an abandon their heavy support instead of providing AA support and a DD screen for the BBs.  The BB's own AA that is usually basically useless.  And considering how good CV skippers NEVER miss with their TBs - which are the only weapon system in the game that NEVER misses when the skipper is good enough - it would be nice to have better AA.  If I am going to hit by from TBs REGARDLESS of how much I try to evade it would be nice to at least have the illusion that my AA is doing something useful by getting some kills ever time  It would be nice to have the illusion that we can give as good as we get.  Even the best gunners miss because the RNG gods ensure that they miss some times even when their/our aim is perfect.  And finally, their precision is still noticeably worse than cruisers at close to medium ranges.  Don't know yet if very close precision is any better.

 

Does anything think that WG will ever actually provide good rewards for effective teamwork to provide an incentive for more players to attempt to provide good teamwork?  Clearly winning the battle is far from a sufficient incentive.

 

I must have a knack for finding the stupid CV drivers, it's a rare event if I get sunk by torpedo bombers. It usually happens because I let myself get isolated from the pack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,221 posts
7,558 battles

I see a lot of BB grief. Why is it that I do well in them (Yes, even the Colorado)? It's not luck, it's too consistent.

 

Seems like SOMEONE here is doing it wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
376
[S_E_A]
Beta Testers
2,709 posts
4,563 battles

I have no problem keeping up with cruisers....in my Kongo #kappa.

 

Not looking forward to the slower Fusou and Nagato.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
124
[ROMEO]
Beta Testers
466 posts
4,407 battles

 

Does anything think that WG will ever actually provide good rewards for effective teamwork to provide an incentive for more players to attempt to provide good teamwork?  Clearly winning the battle is far from a sufficient incentive.

 

I see a lot of comments about rewarding teamwork, and some occasional suggestions about the types of things that are teamwork, but in reality there really is no game mechanic they can put in place that rewards anything other than damage, survival, and victory. Everything else is subjective. You say that CVs and CAs don't support you, but from where I sit, I too often see BBs sitting in back, and hiding behind islands. The simple fact is that there is no campaign mode in this game, and so no incentive to play with a view to long term effects, such as "If I don't protect the BBs this game, we are hosed in the next, so I better hang back, and give AA support." That isn't this game, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24
[H1GH]
Beta Testers
104 posts
8,952 battles

Formation bonuses would be great.  They don't need to be actually in a specific formation, but give everyone a small bonus every 15 seconds or so when they're within a few KM of bigger ships. Pair it with other bonuses like 'savior kills', killing an enemy that's about to kill your ally, and air cover, killing planes that aren't actually coming for you.  Should work wonders. Just think of what the ship classes are supposed to do and find ways to give rewards for actually doing them. 

 

Mechwarrior online finally introduced a similar system, rewarding team based actions and specific fighting tactics (like flanking and hit and run) for the classes that are supposed to be more on their own.  It has made a huge difference to the game play of grinding in the solo queue.

 

If you talk to your team early and politely, you will probably be able to talk a few people into running in formation with you.  Remind them that you can open up enemies quickly and they can probably finish them off while you're reloading if you think they need incentive. I've had luck with this myself. Waiting until after the fact and whining has the opposite effect. Calmly tell them where you think the strategy went wrong and hope they'll utilize it in the next match.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,693
[FOXEH]
Alpha Tester
6,885 posts
21,740 battles

I don't play BBs anymore unless I'm platooned with either a CV or a CA. fixes most of the problem I have with BBs almost instantly.:bajan:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
124
[ROMEO]
Beta Testers
466 posts
4,407 battles

Formation bonuses would be great.  They don't need to be actually in a specific formation, but give everyone a small bonus every 15 seconds or so when they're within a few KM of bigger ships.

 

So everyone goes and hangs out in J10 to farm points, how would that actually contribute? No one ever thinks through how suggestions for mechanics like this would be gamed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

The game is designed around individual rewards, Teamwork is merely an after thought because you can still do well if you pump out enough damage even with a loss.  Screening your BB's nd CV's doesn't give you points,  Shelling, sinking and Citadeling enemies does.

 

That is kinda dumb considering how effective naval fleet combat - i.e. require, as in depend upon - proper tactics and effective teamwork.

Yes, I know, screening the TEAM'S BBs from DDs and providing the TEAM'S BBs with AA support doesn't give you/us points.  That was EXACTLY my point.

Doing everything you mention AND winning the battle still provides the most points/rewards.  Furthermore, IF the developers also added rewards for effective teamwork players could still earn rewards by doing only what you mention.  Rewarding effective teamwork COULD be another way for people to earn if they want.  Indeed, they could earn even more by doing all the above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24
[H1GH]
Beta Testers
104 posts
8,952 battles

 

So everyone goes and hangs out in J10 to farm points, how would that actually contribute? No one ever thinks through how suggestions for mechanics like this would be gamed.

 

 

No, you don't get much for it.... Just enough that if you're rolling with your team you get a bit more than if you didn't....

Edited by burning_gl0w

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

 

I must have a knack for finding the stupid CV drivers, it's a rare event if I get sunk by torpedo bombers. It usually happens because I let myself get isolated from the pack.

 

Must be nice to ONLY drive BBs that can keep up with every pack.  My Arkansas and New Mexico can't do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

I see a lot of BB grief. Why is it that I do well in them (Yes, even the Colorado)? It's not luck, it's too consistent.

 

Seems like SOMEONE here is doing it wrong. 

 

I do well in them also.  Consistently.  I just don't have any fun in them in most battles.  Seems like someone isn't applying any critical thinking to my original comment to really get my point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
211 posts
2,032 battles

I see you're playing many ships. Possibly too many at once.

 

I understand your frustration - its hard not having the tools to cope. But that said, you can easily get some tools to cope with the situation. The first thing is your captain. Are you leveling a single captain? - or do you start fresh with every single ship tier? A T11 captain is all you need to make BB's less painful and actually good at handling a lot of crap that gets thrown your way:

 

  • T1: Basic Firing Training (-10% to reload of secondaries and AA, +10% to AA efficiency)
  • T1: Basics of Survivability
  • T2: Experts Marksman
  • T3: High Alert
  • T4: Advanced Firing Training (+20% to AA range, +20% to secondaries range)

 

With that bare minimum I suspect your BB troubles will not be as pronounced as they are now. 

 

As you get more points (after the above):

  • T1: Situational Awareness (will give you advanced warning when DD's are in the area - a BB lifesaver from the shitstorm of T10 torps)
  • T2: Fire Prevention (won't stop the fires from HE spam - but you've got a better chance of less fires happening)
  • T3: Superintendent (an additional charge on the health regen)

 

My recommendation if you want to continue BB's.

 

Get a single captain - level a single captain. Continue up the BB tree until T10 - play nothing else.

Edited by General_Yeo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

What Wargaming needs to do is provide incentives for teams to work together. Come up with missions that can only be completed by working as a team.

 

Tricky part is: how do you do this / what would the objective of such missions be?

 

Funny you should ask.  I even started a suggestion thread about this very topic, and in that and other threads I have made three suggestions:

* Provide a LOT more points for shooting down bombers.  Say, 5K-10K credits each.  This would provide CV skippers with an incentive to actually carry use fighters to help their team with fighter CAP.  You know, like CVs are supposed to do just like they always have done and continue to do for real.

* Provide a 5K-10K credit bonus when we shoot down a bomber that is closer to or attacking another ship.  Both of these suggestions would provide skippers, especially cruisers skippers, with an incentive to provide AA support to each other.

* MM could designate one of the capital ships (CV or BB) on each team as the flagship in certain types of battles.  If the flagship survives in the enemy's cap the entire team earns a bonus of 75K-100K credits.  While only team members would know which one of their capital ships is the flagship they it could get an admiral's pennant in case any enemy ship can get close enough to see it.  But beyond that the enemy team would not know which capital ship is the flagship. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

 

So everyone goes and hangs out in J10 to farm points, how would that actually contribute? No one ever thinks through how suggestions for mechanics like this would be gamed.

 

Any team that tried that stupidly tried that loophole would never win a battle.  One way to address that would be to have a Multiplier for each cap held at the end of the battle, plus another multiplier for winning.  Creative people could figure out ways to disincentivize lazy exploits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

I see you're playing many ships. Possibly too many at once.

 

I understand your frustration - its hard not having the tools to cope. But that said, you can easily get some tools to cope with the situation. The first thing is your captain. Are you leveling a single captain? - or do you start fresh with every single ship tier? A T11 captain is all you need to make BB's less painful and actually good at handling a lot of crap that gets thrown your way:

 

  • T1: Basic Firing Training (-10% to reload of secondaries and AA, +10% to AA efficiency)
  • T1: Basics of Survivability
  • T2: Experts Marksman
  • T3: High Alert
  • T4: Advanced Firing Training (+20% to AA range, +20% to secondaries range)

 

With that bare minimum I suspect your BB troubles will not be as pronounced as they are now. 

 

As you get more points (after the above):

  • T1: Situational Awareness (will give you advanced warning when DD's are in the area - a BB lifesaver from the shitstorm of T10 torps)
  • T2: Fire Prevention (won't stop the fires from HE spam - but you've got a better chance of less fires happening)
  • T3: Superintendent (an additional charge on the health regen)

 

My recommendation if you want to continue BB's.

 

Get a single captain - level a single captain. Continue up the BB tree until T10 - play nothing else.

 

Yes, I drive everything except IJN CVs.  I want to have fun in ALL of my ships in all of the classes.  BBs are not fun except when I get lucky and have a good team that uses effective teamwork.  Then BBs are a lot of fun.  But, that happens only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the time.  And yes, I understand that being a jack of all trades instead of a master of one comes with some minor disadvantages, such as have to use the first two or three salvos to get used to the gunnery quirks for each ship.

 

I have one captain for each class so my highest tier ships all have fairly senior captains with good skills.  The skipper of my New Mex has almost 64K XPs and all of the skills you suggest.  Ditto for my Fuso skipper.  The only ships that have their own skipper, and the ones that have the least experience, are the lower tier ships I keep just because I like playing a particular ship.  For example, my St. Louis and Kuma and my Isokaze each have their own skipper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,021 posts
3,578 battles

[Content Moderated - Non Constructive]
--Rhonico
 

 

Silly me.  I actually value effective teamwork.  A 27 year military career kinda spoiled me that way.  And, studying military history and tactics and playing tactical and strategic wargames for almost 50 years has given me a decent understanding of tactics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×