Cruiser Play

[Detonator53]

Okay, before you read any further, this post is a rant. 

 

I played 3 games this morning and each battle was lost due to cruiser drivers ignoring, often bypassing, sometimes turning away from destroyers, often to pursue heavily damaged ships or big targets like battleships.

 

I realize that all of us would like "points", and there is certainly a "joy" factor when you sink a ship, but... this is a team oriented game, and your experience points are significantly increased with a "win".  So why not be a good team player, why not do your fleet a favor and do your job?

 

Cruisers in this game have a single role, and it's not chasing carriers.  Cruisers are designed to protect the fleet, the entire fleet.  They are fast maneuverable ships, with fast firing guns that can quickly make submarines out of any smaller ship.  They are often equipped with superior anti-aircraft weapons which, along with their speed and maneuverability, make them ideal as defensive AA platforms. 

 

When you are involved in a fleet confrontation, all of your ships are depending on you for protection from destroyers and planes, and when you turn to run, or are hypnotized by the big, pretty ship, you are being derelict in your duties.  Destroyers and planes can dramatically and quickly turn the tide of battle in ways that are unpleasant for all. 

 

In the last few days I have literally begged cruiser players to kill destroyers only to have them run, ignore or bypass them; ultimately leading to the destruction of our fleets by those very destroyers.  Are you one of "these" ?

 

Now that the original MM has been laid to rest, player's individual skills will have the most impact on battle wins and losses.  There are no more excuses, no more finger pointing boys and girls.  You know if you're one of these cruiser players, no names have been mentioned, no animals harmed in the preparation of this post.  We are all going into harms way in this game, there's simply no way to avoid it.  Let's do it together with a single purpose in mind; to win battles.  I know that's what I enjoy about the game, what about you ?

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

problem is your asking a group of people to work as a team in a WG game.  where the only thing they care about is personal exp.

 

win or lose they dont care as long as they get the most personal exp.  thats a summary of WG titles.

the only times you should expect teamwork is in tournaments, clan wars, sometimes the equivalent of strongholds, and MAYBE ranked battles(but i dont place much hope in it as its pub teams)

 

 

 

and to be fair, cruisers shooting carriers is a good thing as the rapid fire HE volleys can lock a carrier down.  so yes, a cruiser chasing a carrier is a good thing.   (a cruiser can kill a carrier far faster than a BB)

 

 

as for shooting at DDs....while they should (and stuff like cleveland and atlanta with rapid fire guns will).   not all cruisers are suited to hunting DDs.   stuff like the Aoba with its 203mm guns and torps  has a lower rof than a cleveland.  but bigger guns, so it would prefer to use those bigger guns on meatier targets rather than trying their low rof on DDs.

 

theres 2 kinds of cruisers.   the USN cruisers with their focus on guns and AA.  which serves the role you describing

 

and the IJN cruisers, which sacrifice that AA and guns for torps.   they are less durable than USN due to bigger citadels and less armor(usually. pensacola being the exception).   and are more suited for fighting thigns DDs hunt,  rather than hunting DDs.

 

 

in the same way DDs differ

USN DDs are better at killing cruisers and other DDs

IJN DDs are better at killing BBs.

 

 

 

------------

also. keep in mind how many people play with chat off.   they do this because people in game can act like elitists so much,  or just rude, racist, so on.

 

as a result. teamwork is that much harder as elitists and such have made these people disable that communication path so that they can enjoy their game without [edited]ruining it.

 

and heck, alot of elitists in game (and BBabies) bring so much toxicity into games, that people get resentful and will abandon the team just to spite them  (i've done it to elitist BBs i was guarding before.  they act "superior" and mean. so i turn off AA, do a 180, and go find someone else to support as that BB dies.)

 

 

 

only way you'll get teamwork in random battles is if people start accepting people play this GAME for FUN.  and stop being elitists, or racists, or sexists (seriously i do NOT need to hear your "sexual adventure" in team chat. wthpeople....), or so on.

 

but this being the internet, and thus troll friendly.  that wont happen.

[alexf24]

Agreed. Team play wins games. Cruisers are there to support the capital ships.

 

For some cruisers, the first target early in game is AA protection (eg. Cleveland, Atlanta, Omaha), then DD interdiction.

Going yolo all guns blazing and dying in a shootout does not help the team. Just makes you leave the battle early and swim.

 

CVs should scout and light up DDs till they die. Cruisers should get to those DDs. Need to find them first.

[MexicanPanda]

I like chasing down DDs in my cruisers. I sometimes feel like a mongoose going after a cobra when I do. =P  If I'm half way across the map though, I am very unlikely to turn around to go help a carrier or whatever that has a DD closing in fast.

 

CVs should scout and light up DDs till they die. Cruisers should get to those DDs. Need to find them first.

Also this^^ It pisses me off to no end when carriers send their planes along the map edge instead of trying to do some scouting with their planes that are en route to their targets. I can kill enemy DDs a lot faster when I know there they are. If they slip past and get the carriers that failed to scout, well that's not my problem.

[DV_Potatobaiter]

Only play USN ships (and only up to tier 5 so far) but I'll keep my Omaha close to the BBs. They have the range to deal with targets at 12+ klicks and I have the AAA and torps to deal with the closer in threats. DDs should be scouting and laying smoke down for the main force at cap zones. Yes cruisers are there to protect the fleet but the DDs with their high concealment (and only class with smoke) should be the scout force and smoking the cap points like Snoop Dogg with a blunt.

[BitPlayerCOH]

I'm all about support in my cruisers. Depending on the initial movements of teammates I'll either stand by and help repel the Bomber Rush or I'll hook up with the biggest concentration of BB's and try to get a little out in front.

 

That said, the plan falls apart when there's no 'group'. When the team just immediately scatters like a bunch of cockroaches in a suddenly lit room, I just go where I think I can be the most useful and do what I can.

[Jex_TE]

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to designate yourself as a team player so you show up on the MM in a different colour? You could then coordinate or make a group in game to team up (being able to make a group would be better as you could kick out time wasters then). The chat window would display a different colour text as well (Does WoW have voice?) and you could even have a team leader that could give each ship way-points, even.

 

Imagine that - a team based game with some actual things put into it for...teams!

[BitPlayerCOH]

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to designate yourself as a team player so you show up on the MM in a different colour? You could then coordinate or make a group in game to team up (being able to make a group would be better as you could kick out time wasters then). The chat window would display a different colour text as well (Does WoW have voice?) and you could even have a team leader that could give each ship way-points, even.

 

Imagine that - a team based game with some actual things put into it for...teams!

 

You know, the only place I've ever seen that was City of Heroes / City of Villains. You could choose to designate yourself a 'Mentor' or 'Need Help' and your character name would appear a different color according to what you picked.  It was really useful for new players.

 

[pmgaudio]

ya know.... why does, when someone ELSE say these things they get up-voted, but when someone "NEW" does it he gets ridiculed and called a C__T in-game..... LOL
 

I agree 100% with this entire conversation, both at the actual real role of a cruiser, and the rampant ignorance of this being a WG game and internet.... Yeah everyone wants get better, no one want dead.... Seems like all I want is to WIN..., I dont care if I die really (I do but for the betterment of the team if need be) I 

 

I have been only playing for three days (this being day three) before I started I spent the better part of Thursday night and Fri morning READING... LEARNING..... and KNOWING the game..... going in I was "better" than the average noob for it.... Jingles "how not to suck" video alone was a key to knowing basics and what not to do as well (LIKE DON'T SHOOT FRIGGING TORPS EVER WHEN AN ALLY IS HEADING THERE!!!!!) and Ironside ( Iron hyde.....something like that) is a great vid series to watch

Overall I love the game.... LOVE the music, the sounds, and yes, that voice "You have sunk and enemy destroyer" "Enemy Cruiser Floundered"   Yeah thats' great stuff....

BUT ship roles should be learned and teamwork supported.... I am at tier 2 and 3 right now.l... yeah crappy Japanese BB but still..... LOVE the St Louis guns and have a lot of fun, even if its slow....
BUT I KNOW MY ROLE!!!!! and when I try in game to get the cruisers to sort of do their job, I get called names.... Elitist? Not so much, Ijust want the WIN, I like the fact that we can and should work as a team in a naval battle and win.... but the RUDE a$$hats in game seem to think that THEY know better than me cause they have fought ten more battles than I have..... or "WE KNOW IDIOT STFU AND GO AWAY"  stuff.... I apologize for 1-this long read, and 2-in game admiral-ing.... if you see me, lets get along and do our jobs.....(NO ONE LIKES greasing traverse sprockets and cleaning 16 inch guns, .... but if you DON'T DO IT you lose) that's what my Dad said growing up (he didnt do that stuff but he was in the Navy)..... If the new comers did even the slightest research about the roles and tactics of the ships they are going to play then the rants like this would be few and far between...... I am not trying to be an admiral, but if SOMEONE has a better idea then perhaps in pert you can shout out sensible orders and we can teamwork our way to victory...... e

you know even the newest of new can have the best way to win, sometimes.....

anyway, see you out there and lets sink some ships!!!!

[MushPotatoes]

 

 

Cruisers in this game have a single role, and it's not chasing carriers.  Cruisers are designed to protect the fleet, the entire fleet.  

 

I disagree.  That's what you either want them to be or have pigeonholed them to be in your mind.  Cruisers can excel at protecting the fleet.  They can also excel at wolf pack flanking attacks.  Wargaming has made it fairly clear that CLs and CAs are an "everyman" ship. They're a balance between the more strategic play of BBs and the lightning quick tactical environment that DDs inhabit.

 

If you want Cruisers to fill the fleet screen role, find like minded players, and form a division.  That's what I do.  I even have Teamspeak.  But, making such a bold and, frankly, mistaken statement is incorrect. 

[enderland07]

 

I disagree.  That's what you either want them to be or have pigeonholed them to be in your mind.  Cruisers can excel at protecting the fleet.  They can also excel at wolf pack flanking attacks.  Wargaming has made it fairly clear that CLs and CAs are an "everyman" ship. They're a balance between the more strategic play of BBs and the lightning quick tactical environment that DDs inhabit.

 

If you want Cruisers to fill the fleet screen role, find like minded players, and form a division.  That's what I do.  I even have Teamspeak.  But, making such a bold and, frankly, mistaken statement is incorrect. 

 

I don't know, it sure seems at lower tiers that when CAs stick with the main fleet, they eat up DDs and other CA and allow their BB to take out the opponents BB/CA. And both rack up tons of xp.

 

Pretty much everytime I've played where a few CA and BB stick together it's resulted in complete domination of whatever ships approach.

[MushPotatoes]

 

I don't know, it sure seems at lower tiers that when CAs stick with the main fleet, they eat up DDs and other CA and allow their BB to take out the opponents BB/CA. And both rack up tons of xp.

 

Pretty much everytime I've played where a few CA and BB stick together it's resulted in complete domination of whatever ships approach.

 

In all fairness, I did specifically say that they are great in that role.  But, there are are multiple valid playstyles. I object to trying to universally pigeonhole Cruisers and Destroyers into one role.  At mid to high tier, USN Cruisers are better at the fleet screen role.  At similar tiers, IJN Cruisers are better hunters.  IJN DDs are more suited to the role of ninja-like BB and CV hunters.  USN DDs are more suited to the role of DD killers and fleet screens.

 

I agree with the OP's overall premise. I can't tell you how many times I've been "screened" by a friendly Cruiser only to have it work against me.  I, in my BB, have to end up engaging the enemy Cruisers that are burning me to death because my screening Cruisers are to busy shooting at the enemy battleships to the point where they just ignore the enemy cruisers.  If you're going to fill the role of fleet screen, fill it.  Do it well.  I only object to saying that it's a Cruiser's only role.

[BitPlayerCOH]

Cruisers:  Can do pretty much whatever needs to be done at any given time.  Be it chasing a carrier, raining fire on a battleship, screening against aircraft or destroyers, or shifting to support a collapsing flank.

[Captain_Wizard]

During todays gaming I noticed a couple of times when a BB put out a request for an escort.  My division mates and I all responded to those requests.  In one case I saved a BB from 7 torpedo/dive bombers.  In another I went chasing after a DD that was threatening him.

 

My point here, though, is that I have also escorted other BBs only to find them getting me stuck in the middle of a completely outgunned battle because he did not think ahead and it was just the two us against what seemed like the whole damned enemy fleet.

 

So my thinking after today is - if a BB wants an escort ask for it, otherwise I will do my best to keep the DDs away and punch big holes in whatever else I can and generally protect the fleet as best I can.

[Extraordinarii]

I pretty much only play IJN cruisers since beta and I always go for the destroyers. My only complain is that at high tier the destroyers have a very short detection range and a very long torpedo range, fighting against them is like walking in pitch dark and a guy equipped with NVG and a baseball bat ready to beat the crap out of you at any second.

[Captain_Wizard]

I hear you   My feelings exactly.

[Simuo]

I think the answer depends.

 

If 1 BB and 1CA are chasing 1DD then I agree with you: having cruiser chasing the hidden DD is usually a better idea (note that I said usually). But that's not always the case.

 

The enemy DD is often drive in front of the enemy fleet - there would be a few other enemy ships pointing the gun towards the direction awaiting for target. If the cruiser chase the DD then it would expose himself first before it finds the enemy DD. And the cruiser at the front line would take all the fire and die in seconds due to torp, enemy salvo, or both, leaving the BB alone and get slaughtered slowly. Especially the CA would often be forced to turn to dodge the torp wave, or to point towards DD to reduce the risk of torp, and expose the CA board side to the enemy. Chasing DD is a risky task.

 

On the other hand, if BB go towards the enemy the situation may not be a bad idea: If you know a DD is there you often have better idea how to dodge the torp. BB has the health to take up to 5-6 torp hits, so it will survive both a torp wave plus enemy BB/CA gun fire, and later recover his health. Plus the BB has stronger secondary fire that would also help killing the DD.

 

Still the best strategy is to use your DD to spot enemy DD and kill them in distance, or simply turn away your BB and let the DD chase you and die under your secondary fire, while you continue hitting your primary target with your long ranged main battery.

[Admiral_Ballsey]

"On the other hand, if BB go towards the enemy the situation may not be a bad idea: If you know a DD is there you often have better idea how to dodge the torp. BB has the health to take up to 5-6 torp hits, so it will survive both a torp wave plus enemy BB/CA gun fire, and later recover his health. Plus the BB has stronger secondary fire that would also help killing the DD."

 

No. This is a bad idea. I'll take shots at a DD with my BB if I have a chance, but I'll avoid direct confrontation with a DD if I have a choice. They are hard to hit with my slow turrets, slow reloads, and slow turning. A battleship is like driving an iceberg compared to a speedy DD. I rarely win an encounter with a DD, and when I do, a lot of luck is involved. Just because I can take more damage than other boats doesn't mean I want to absorb  5-6 torps if I can avoid it. That is just suicide.

[DuckBoom]

I'm glad I read this post.  I too studied battle tactics, strategies and "how not to be a Noob" before I started playing.  I too get angry when some players don't want to take on the role for which their ship was designed.  However, I must admit... I see myself in OP's description.  Not running away from DDs, but rushing off YOLO and dying too quickly trying to attack one of the five Tirps on the enemy team.  I know I've killed more DDs and CAs than any other ship. But I also get caught up in trying to Cap.  DDs usually get to caps first, but because my CA has some speed, I decide to cap too.  Usually turns out bad. There are times when I see torp planes heading for BB or CV and I'll turn back to provide cover fire.  I'll even encourage people to stay together and focus fire via chat. But I find myself going 21 knots when my ship is capable of 35 knots.  Am I using my ship to its advantages?  Clearly, I have to learn from this post as well as the responses above and change my gameplay.  I care more about the team and winning than individual stats.  So, thanks for the post and sorry I've sometimes been a Noob!

[DuckBoom]

OK, so I killed a DD and stayed with CV and BBs - ran all over trying to help cover the team.  I got called out for not getting in the fight!  We lost terribly.  With a Cleveland's fast firing guns, if I'm not killing CAs and hammering BBs, I'm not doing my job.  Chasing DDs got me nowhere.  I didn't help my team or myself.  I think (depending on the CA), our role should be to primarily fight DDs and enemy CAs when we find them, while keeping an eye out for our own team whenever possible. The battle will determine where we should put our priorities. Oh, yeah and don't forget to cap.

[WastedSeamen]

The battle will determine where we should put our priorities. Oh, yeah and don't forget to cap.

 

This nails it. If enemy has 5 DDs, certainly worthwhile to find good position in front of your capital ships and wait for them to show up. If enemy has a mess of cruisers, then may want to move to where ever you can find a cruiser that's overextending to pick off. The game is flexible enough that there is never a one size fits all class strategy.

[Zek_Men]

A noob here.  Short time playing..  Team work seems the best tactic.  Big groups furballing is great fun...

[kybosh77]

During todays gaming I noticed a couple of times when a BB put out a request for an escort.  My division mates and I all responded to those requests.  In one case I saved a BB from 7 torpedo/dive bombers.  In another I went chasing after a DD that was threatening him.

 

My point here, though, is that I have also escorted other BBs only to find them getting me stuck in the middle of a completely outgunned battle because he did not think ahead and it was just the two us against what seemed like the whole damned enemy fleet.

 

So my thinking after today is - if a BB wants an escort ask for it, otherwise I will do my best to keep the DDs away and punch big holes in whatever else I can and generally protect the fleet as best I can.

I'm new here but I try and do the same thing as you here in this case. I have learned the hard way as far as being pulled into an outgunned battle however I now recognize that type of battle in the making and wind up doing an about face. What's frustrating for example is what happened to a Captain today in a Cleveland going head to head with a BB at about 10km. I warned him numerous times to come back to the line of scrimmage. I have paid attention to the Battles that I have fought and learned a lot. The game really lends itself to micro strategies. On the fly type decisions it some instances. 

I pretty much only play IJN cruisers since beta and I always go for the destroyers. My only complain is that at high tier the destroyers have a very short detection range and a very long torpedo range, fighting against them is like walking in pitch dark and a guy equipped with NVG and a baseball bat ready to beat the crap out of you at any second.

I can't agree more. I have really taken on the DD hunter role as much as possible. I understand the smoke screen bit and hiding within the screen but when you have a clean line of sight and the DD is clearly not in smoke you should be able to see him. It's like being a one legged dude in an A$$ kick' n' contest.  Needs more balance. I surmise.

[Carl]

The OP is clearly new.

 

First and foremost saying a cruisers job is to chase DD's is just ignorant. A cruiser under 5km range is just as easy to kill as a BB in most cases. Equally a cruiser can;t go charging into the midst of the enemy fleet to chase a runner. At the end of the day a cruisers job is to hold your flanks, fending off aircraft, cruisers, and dd's trying to beat you up while you push into the enemy fleet and sink their stuff. That's not to say you'll kill most dd's, but a cruiser can only engage a DD on their terms which means they need bait, aka you in your big slow bb to draw the fishes in where they can kill them.

 

Now sure if the cruisers run off leave you and a dd in plain view runs 10km to torp you from 2km away, someone screwed up bad. But cruisers that try to chase destroyer fare far worse than bb's who try it just because you're tougher than them and no more vulnerable. Cruisers only fare well against DD's when the don;t have to worry about the rest of the enemies shooting at them.

[Yasenpoi]

As a cruiser, I don't mind chasing down a DD that screwed up, but if you expect cruisers to be able to find and kill 40 knot DD like shimakaze on open waters alone, then you must be a noob.  If you are a BB that expects cruisers to be able to warp to you to defend you when you are in trouble, then you have unrealistic expectations.  If you are a BB player that is going to help me hunt down the DD, then I would be much more willing to help. 

 

If you don't have CV or DD to help you, you need a net to catch DD.  Cruisers generally get detected at 12 range.  When the DD has a detection of 6-7km and faster speed, it can easily stay out of detection range.  If the situation doesn't allow you to hunt down DD, then you are better off just trying to dodge torpedoes rather than going off on a wild goose hunt.