Best Japanese DD for Its Tier

[Zaikadi]

OK, ok, I almost never post "best" threads. It so often comes down to personal preference. But, this time, I am really curious about what players think. I have recently found that destroyers are quite fun, and as a devout cruiser captain, I seem to have an unexpected knack for playing DDs. So, I'm trying to find a good Japanese DD to settle on and try to master. I'm really only asking to rate three. I'm not interested in grinding out above Tier IV or V.

 

I'm not including the Minekaze. It seems that most players agree that it's in a league of its own. I might eventually get one. Also I am not including it because it will very likely get nerfed.

 

So, I'm asking you all which you think performs best among Tiers II, III, and IV. I'm currently running the Wakatake to unlock Isokaze. I have done equally well with the Umikaze and Wakatake, but I suspect that the Umikaze might be best for its tier.

 

What do you think about these three?

[Hunter_Steel]

Considering that Umikaze had my highest damage stats for Tier 2: 65k dmg game with 3 kills, I'd probably lean towards this. 

 

Isokaze is good though. REALLY good. It's like a tier 4 Minekaze. 

 

My personal opinion leans on Wakatake though.

 

~Hunter

[alexf24]

Isokaze is very good Minekaze is excellent and will still be after the nerf, just closer to Isokaze.

[branck]

For a class where stealth is everything, Umikaze got the advantage of fighting in tiers where aircrafts aren't a common sight (thus, less chances to be spotted).

Umikaze is also the japanese DD with the biggest stealth torpedo buffer range, before the minekaze (by that, I mean the distance where you're close enough to launch your torpedoes, but far enough not to be detected).

Moreover, low tier players have less experience when it comes to dealing with torpedoes, and like to sail in straight lines (making them easy targets for your slow torps).

Finally, I believe Umkaze can't face cruisers with high enough tier to equip the acoustic acquisition skill (which helps them spot DD and torpedoes farther, even through smokescreens). For what it's worth...

[Xenomancers]

I think the IJN has 4 really good DD's.

Isokaze and minekaze are excellent dd's in their tiers. Super stealthy and speedy with low reload torps. 

 

Kagero and Shimakaze are also both excellent. Good guns and lots of long range torps (the cool downs are a little high though)

[Takeda992]

Kagerou is a terrible DD for it's tier.

[BarbedWireRat]

Been thinking about this myself lately.  I have a Gremy and Sims but my focus has been on BB and Cruisers so my DD gameplay is abysmal.  Picked an Umikaze and Wakatake to learn some skills.  Ive been banging away at these two and seeing some improvement but not sure if I should keep practicing at these tiers and maybe keep one or the other for the long term or perhaps just drop them both and continue my learning in the Isokaze.  Ultimately I really only intend to take the IJN line up to Minikaze.  

 

Playing at tier II with Umi can be kinda wonky.  Not getting the results I want yet in terms of end of game ranking so not sure if it is me the ship or the map.  I get torps in the water but my target gets killed before they arrive.  Then when Im ready to acquire a new target well now I have friendlies downrange so cant risk launching torps.  Umi torps dont do a ton of damage so hitting a South Carolina or St Louis at best wounds it for allies to kill off!

 

So at tier III with Wakataki, the dual launchers don't put a lot of fish in the water so enemy ships are able to maneuver around them.  The tier III and IV players this DD encounters tend  to be better prepared to deal with DD threats.

 

Kinda want to sell one of these off before Isokaze to move up one of the Capts and at the end if it just have a Minikaze and one of the lower tier IJN DDs.

[Xenomancers]

Kagerou is a terrible DD for it's tier.

20 km torps is bad? I'm confused.

[Takeda992]

20 km torps is bad? I'm confused.

 

It's not about range. 

 

First of all, your ship render range is lower than 20km.. slightly more than 15km.. so even if a target is spotted at 20km, you can't see it.

 

Seconds, the torps are detection at 2km giving 12 seconds time for the target to react.. at that tier, way more than enough. Add to that that Kagerou only has 2 quadruple launchers with less than 2 minutes reload and a very wide spread (even on tight spread) any ship can slip between the torps easily. Not to mention the long time it gets the torps to travel the distance anyway.

 

Third, the ship itself. Kagerou has worse guns than Fubuki before her (36 seconds compared to 25 seconds turret turn.. to be buffed to 30 seconds next patch), worse AA (guns are not dual purpose), worse top speed (35kts), cruiser-like turning circle.. pretty much bad everything except the torps.

 

Stats from the EU server that came out about a week ago showed that Kagerou is the worst ship at tier 9. Hightier IJN DDs are stat-traps, look good on paper, but when you play them they leave a lot to be desired.

[Final_Spark]

For some reason I liked the Kagero. However, a decent chunk of my grind through her was with the tier 5 concealment skill activated, so I was able to get down to about 5.5km surface and 3.0 air detection. Yes, the AA is terrible, even more so when you skip the C hull like I did, but it's not like we rely on AA at all in these ships. I also free exp'd the Type 93s after manually grinding out the B hull. I also kept the speed flags on 100% of the time after picking up said torps.

 

For the guns, it was a push for me. I had problems when I had to turn them, but in a planned attack I would have all three available to one side. I played my Fubuki with the C hull (technically the best IJN DD AA), so working with a third turret gave me some extra alpha that I didn't have before.

 

The reaction time for the torps are about the same as each ship back to the Mutsuki, so you should be used to this by now. The high speed does help with bow shots and "deer in the headlights" syndrome. Reload was not amazing but OK, as you can mount Torp Mod 3 as well as the tier 2 captain skill.

 

As for the unnecessary range, this is true, but you usually want to get fairly close regardless of the range just to get more hits. That range is useful for the hail marys and hitting people way beyond your intended target.

 

Is it amazing? No. Still, you've got to think more strategically. Get to the proper firing angle to give your torps the best chances of hits. Their alpha will do the rest.

[sushimaster]

I haven't got to the Kagero yet but the Fubuki is absolutely amazing, i am doing better in this ship than even my Fletcher.

[Caucasian_Fury]

Umikaze by far, low detection range, 8.3km torps, 20 second reloads. Torps don't do a lot of damage but jeebus you can absolutely wreck the opposing team. 

 

Also helps that you're not facing anything higher than a T3 ship in an Umikaze and most players in the lower tiers don't know how to dodge torps yet. I probably averaged 3 to 4 kills per game in my Umikaze before I sold it to make room.

[chewonit]

I like Isokaze a lot. The only problem with her is she can't out run most cruisers in game, let alone US DDs. I always get hammers whenever I get myself caught by a cruiser.

 

The only way to get out alive in an encounter with any US DD, for me at least, is to just run up close, enduring the gun fire and hope I have a chance to fire torps in close range before she does. It works about 60% of the time. But it's a sure fire Banzai run if there's any other enemy ship in range. I die 100% of the time in that case. 

[Zaikadi]

I have the Minekaze, now, and I can't seem to get the results I had with its three predecessors. I'm sure it's because of what I'm finding in higher tiers: better ships, better air spotting, and better players. Minekaze is certainly an upgrade of the Isokaze, but maybe not enough of an upgrade to compensate.

 

Then again, I read almost nothing but praise for Minekaze, so I guess I need to keep trying.

[dahdah325]

 

It's not about range. 

 

First of all, your ship render range is lower than 20km.. slightly more than 15km.. so even if a target is spotted at 20km, you can't see it.

 

Seconds, the torps are detection at 2km giving 12 seconds time for the target to react.. at that tier, way more than enough. Add to that that Kagerou only has 2 quadruple launchers with less than 2 minutes reload and a very wide spread (even on tight spread) any ship can slip between the torps easily. Not to mention the long time it gets the torps to travel the distance anyway.

 

Third, the ship itself. Kagerou has worse guns than Fubuki before her (36 seconds compared to 25 seconds turret turn.. to be buffed to 30 seconds next patch), worse AA (guns are not dual purpose), worse top speed (35kts), cruiser-like turning circle.. pretty much bad everything except the torps.

 

Stats from the EU server that came out about a week ago showed that Kagerou is the worst ship at tier 9. Hightier IJN DDs are stat-traps, look good on paper, but when you play them they leave a lot to be desired.

 

It is about range, and the speed the 20km torps have. Due to the number of planes at t9/10, DD engagement ranges are longer than mid tiers. Having torps you can effective engage with at 15km is huge. Fast 20km torps also allow good players to take tail-chase shots that 15km torps will never have a chance of hitting. Detection range is a moot point because all 610mm torps have basically the same detection response time. You may detect a 20km torp slightly sooner, but its increased speed means response time is still about 12sec. It is quite funny how many ships will detect a 20km torp so far out but not move in time because they seem to thinkthey had more time. 

 

The Kag and Shima are great DD's for one simple reason: Damage. The LL torps don't have to hit in huge numbers to be a huge factor. I am hovering around 8% hit rate in both ships. This means that in a 9-10 drop game, I am hitting on average 7 times. This sounds horribad until you realize that most of those hits are 15k+ damage, not counting any flooding. Even if you average 10k per hit (thats a Yammy belt hit) your looking at 70k damage per game, or 4x my HP.

 

I'll take that in any ship. 

 

 

[Lightning_Streak]

Why are people trying to use their guns on the IJN DDs. THEY DON'T WORK AS WELL AS USN DDS. Sorry had to get that off my chest.

   I love the Minekaze at it's tier, but 2-4 I will have to say the Izokaze. It's detection rage of 6.3 and the torp range of 7.0Km just is so much fun.

[sushimaster]

Why are people trying to use their guns on the IJN DDs. THEY DON'T WORK AS WELL AS USN DDS. Sorry had to get that off my chest.

   I love the Minekaze at it's tier, but 2-4 I will have to say the Izokaze. It's detection rage of 6.3 and the torp range of 7.0Km just is so much fun.

That's is a very very bad habit not using gun that will carry to tier 10 IJN DD, i recently met a Shimakaze im my Fub, we are 2 kms from each other , i have 3 k hp left, he's full yet he decide to torp me instead of shooting with his gun which could have 1 shot me, we both dropped torp and kill each other. IJN captain seem to forgot they have guns which lead to a situation where they could win but instead died.

[Lightning_Streak]

That's is a very very bad habit not using gun that will carry to tier 10 IJN DD, i recently met a Shimakaze im my Fub, we are 2 kms from each other , i have 3 k hp left, he's full yet he decide to torp me instead of shooting with his gun which could have 1 shot me, we both dropped torp and kill each other. IJN captain seem to forgot they have guns which lead to a situation where they could win but instead died.

 

However, I've seen people using their cannons on FULL hp cruisers/battleships. I'm not saying don't use them on low hp DDs, BBs, or CLs. I even killed an almost dead CL with my guns. I'm saying that the guns shouldn't be the main focus, until they are near dead..

[dahdah325]

 

However, I've seen people using their cannons on FULL hp cruisers/battleships. I'm not saying don't use them on low hp DDs, BBs, or CLs. I even killed an almost dead CL with my guns. I'm saying that the guns shouldn't be the main focus, until they are near dead..

 

Not true. It is very situational, but gun attacks (even from mid tier IJN DD's) can be very effective. If you are outside your spotting range to a high HP target, and he is firing in a much different direction, switch to guns and shoot HE. make sure you maintain close to your spotting distance during the engagement, and keep shooting (and hope for fires) until he adjusts back to you. You can then go dark/pop smoke and work on a torp attack. This is a great way to get a target to use his RK, then be open to uncontrolled flooding. 

 

Ignoring your guns because you think they are weak just ignores an entire aspect of your ship's capabilities. Be creative and find ways to use them effectively.

[Caucasian_Fury]

 

Not true. It is very situational, but gun attacks (even from mid tier IJN DD's) can be very effective. If you are outside your spotting range to a high HP target, and he is firing in a much different direction, switch to guns and shoot HE. make sure you maintain close to your spotting distance during the engagement, and keep shooting (and hope for fires) until he adjusts back to you. You can then go dark/pop smoke and work on a torp attack. This is a great way to get a target to use his RK, then be open to uncontrolled flooding. 

 

Ignoring your guns because you think they are weak just ignores an entire aspect of your ship's capabilities. Be creative and find ways to use them effectively.

 

Very true, even if your shots don't land or do much damage, it will generally cause some distraction and hold some of the attention of the other player, no one wants to get hit because it's just natural instinct. Sometimes landing a couple of shots is enough to drive off an opposing DD or make them think twice about following you too tightly.

[Lightning_Streak]

 

Very true, even if your shots don't land or do much damage, it will generally cause some distraction and hold some of the attention of the other player, no one wants to get hit because it's just natural instinct. Sometimes landing a couple of shots is enough to drive off an opposing DD or make them think twice about following you too tightly.

 

But why would I want them to focus me, and not my ally? When mostly it's a Cruiser and Battleship they are firing at. That's just saying HEY look at me  I'm right here. When as a DD player. You don't want that.

 

Don't forget when I fire I'm detected. So a random BB or Cruiser can find me and then start sniping me.

[dahdah325]

 

But why would I want them to focus me, and not my ally? When mostly it's a Cruiser and Battleship they are firing at. That's just saying HEY look at me  I'm right here. When as a DD player. You don't want that.

 

Don't forget when I fire I'm detected. So a random BB or Cruiser can find me and then start sniping me.

 

Because if you are careful about how you do it, you can stop firing, go dark and disengage before they change their focus to you. The result is you can get damaging harassment fire in, force the enemy ship to turn away from your allies (often exposing himself to them more), and, if you set a fire, force him to use his RK and expose himself to uncontrolled flooding on your upcoming torp drop. 

[T_Rudder]

Isokazu is the best ...if you want that "job-well-done" feeling when it's all over

 

DD trick is to know when to turn toward you target, when to set him on fire, when to switch to AP for the coupe-grace that will take no more than that, when not to trust the torp launch suggestion.  Main DD trick sneak up on carriers, sink them and their BB escorts, avoiding cruiser and other DD engagements.  At least in the the tiers I get the most out of playing.

[Zaikadi]

Well, after about 30 matches in each, the Isokaze has come out on top up to this point. I really seem to have a feel for this ship and I think the lower tier opponents make a difference.

 

According to my stats, they match up this way.

Isokaze

Winrate: 59.38%

Avg XPs: 1,112

Avg Dmg: 28,590

Kill/Death: 2.53

Ship Kill Rate; 1.34

Survival Rate: 46.88%

 

Minekaze

Winrate: 43.33%

Avg XPs: 724

Avg Dmg: 21,548

Kill/Death: 1.29

Ship Kill Rate; .73

Survival Rate: 43.33% (notice matches winrate)

 

...and the Minekaze has a higher-skilled captain.

 

Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone. I'm doing exceptionally poorly with the Minekaze. I'm using similar tactics, with variations to meet the two DD's distinct stats, but I just can't get equal results. Last night, I made a screenshot of my results with the Isokaze. In that game, I got 5 kills and received between 1000 and 1500 experience again. I couldn't figure out how to post it, but anyway.

 

The main thing I miss with the Isokaze is not the shorter detection range, which I admit is nice in its higher-tiered niece, but Minekaze's low-slung, aggressive appearance.

[Moksie]

 

Because if you are careful about how you do it, you can stop firing, go dark and disengage before they change their focus to you. The result is you can get damaging harassment fire in, force the enemy ship to turn away from your allies (often exposing himself to them more), and, if you set a fire, force him to use his RK and expose himself to uncontrolled flooding on your upcoming torp drop.

 

This guy understands.  If you work it well, a DD and a BB make a great team.  Just go in and out of spotting and every time that BB swings his guns at you it helps out your mates quite a bit.  Chances are that BB will miss you, he wont miss that BB you just drew fire off of.  Especially if you can get on the other side of the  red BB, he'll never be able to keep a path long enough to shoot at your BB, if he does, he dies.