Draws the bane of higher tier gameplay

[Ryno_Caval]

As all of you have noticed as you play in the higher tiers Draws seem to happen more frequently than not. This tends to be a problem for a lot of players and it makes it a pain to play anything over T8. There is a poll with two of my ideas to fix this toxic problem at the higher tiers but I would also like to hear what other ideas everyone has.

[Lert]

- Point based games already don't draw. The team with the most points win.

 

- Standard battles could be made so that the team with the higher amount of hitpoints remaining would win - either by total hitpoints, or by % hitpoints of teamtotal. Ofcourse, this would promote hiding and running, but hey, you want to get rid of draws and this would do it.

[sushimaster]

Extend game time for high tier

[dukenukem115]

Reduce repair costs of Tier 8 and above cruisers, increase cruiser range tier 8 and above by two KM.

[Crucis]

- Point based games already don't draw. The team with the most points win.

 

- Standard battles could be made so that the team with the higher amount of hitpoints remaining would win - either by total hitpoints, or by % hitpoints of teamtotal. Ofcourse, this would promote hiding and running, but hey, you want to get rid of draws and this would do it.

 

Bah, just get rid of Standard and Encounter modes as they currently exist.  And replace them with Domination rules based maps where the cap circles exist where the Standard and Encounter mode cap circles currently reside.  This solves the problem without needing to recreate the wheel.

 

 

 

[Crucis]

Extend game time for high tier

 

Won't do a damned thing.  If teams won't play sufficiently aggressive in the first 17 minutes of a 20 min battle, why should we expect them to be sufficiently aggressive in the first 22 minutes of a 25 minute battle?

 

 

[Ryno_Caval]

 

Won't do a damned thing.  If teams won't play sufficiently aggressive in the first 17 minutes of a 20 min battle, why should we expect them to be sufficiently aggressive in the first 22 minutes of a 25 minute battle?

 

 

 

That is in fact a problem that stems from the high repair costs of the higher tiered ships. I personally play to win and if my wallet is weak than I don't play the ships I cannot afford to repair. 

[Battleship_Aki]

High repair costs means cowardly play by both teams.

[DemonsofRazgriz]

I see a lot of draws at high tiers due to a combination of:

• Massive health pools plus the ability to regen
• High cost of just hitting battle, causing people to be reluctant to push
• BB big alpha plus high accuracy makes CAs and DDs keep from pushing (baring Atago and Atlanta noobs)
• CVs make allies huddle into AA bubbles which further slows down team pushes.
• Economy and game mechanics doesnt support proper team gameplay (ie: Shooting down planes, spotting damage with DDs/torpedo and plane picket, focus firing on enemies) of course this would be hard to implement but oh well

 

just my .02

[Brandx51]

Team based exp.

[Naughtius_Maximus]

- Point based games already don't draw. The team with the most points win.

 

- Standard battles could be made so that the team with the higher amount of hitpoints remaining would win - either by total hitpoints, or by % hitpoints of teamtotal. Ofcourse, this would promote hiding and running, but hey, you want to get rid of draws and this would do it.

 

That's extremely biased.

 

More importantly it's mostly the fault of people not playing the objectives. I mean, the cap water is just as open as open water, but people don't fight on it for some reason.

[Crucis]

 

Won't do a damned thing.  If teams won't play sufficiently aggressive in the first 17 minutes of a 20 min battle, why should we expect them to be sufficiently aggressive in the first 22 minutes of a 25 minute battle?

 

 

 

That is in fact a problem that stems from the high repair costs of the higher tiered ships. I personally play to win and if my wallet is weak than I don't play the ships I cannot afford to repair. 

 

Oh, bullfeathers.

 

Tier 9 and 10 tanks in WoT are incredibly expensive to repair (particularly the tier 10 ones), and that doesn't stop any halfway decent player from playing aggressively.  I never worry about repair costs when I'm driving tier 10 tanks.  Never.

 

If you're worried about repair costs in your highest tier ships, IMO you're just not that good a player.  Start being more concerned with doing damage, getting kills, and all the other stuff that wins battles.  And let your repair costs take care of themselves.

 

I am glad to see that YOU play to win, rather than worrying about repair costs.  If repair costs are too high for a player's "wallet" they should be playing lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

 

 

[Crucis]

I see a lot of draws at high tiers due to a combination of:

• Massive health pools plus the ability to regen
• High cost of just hitting battle, causing people to be reluctant to push
• BB big alpha plus high accuracy makes CAs and DDs keep from pushing (baring Atago and Atlanta noobs)
• CVs make allies huddle into AA bubbles which further slows down team pushes.
• Economy and game mechanics doesnt support proper team gameplay (ie: Shooting down planes, spotting damage with DDs/torpedo and plane picket, focus firing on enemies) of course this would be hard to implement but oh well

 

just my .02

 

 

1. If it's too expensive for a player to play in high tier battles, then instead of playing overly cautiously, they should play lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

2. AA bubbles:  In other words, those players are playing smart and working together, which is a GOOD thing.

 

3. I see no reason why it should be difficult to improve XP/credits awarded for shooting down planes.  OTOH, I'll agree that spotting damage may be a difficult mechanic to add.  That said, it exists in WoT, so I don't exactly see why it should be so hard to leverage from there. 

 

As for Focus Fire, that seems like the hardest of the bunch.  How does one define "focus fire" in a way that could be used programmatically?  One idea might be if you hit target ship A within, perhaps 10 seconds, after ship A was previously hit, that counts as a "focus fire" hit, as long as it's a DIFFERENT ship hitting ship A.  (You don't want to reward a single fast firing ship "focus fire" XP/credits simply because it can send a constant stream of fire onto the target ship.  The idea is to reward multiple ships focusing on the same target.)  And as long as your team keeps hitting that ship, the 10 second timer keeps being reset.  The key thing is that the process would have to reward multiple ships hitting the same target within a short period of time, and not a single ship.

 

 

 

 

[dukenukem115]

 

Oh, bullfeathers.

 

Tier 9 and 10 tanks in WoT are incredibly expensive to repair (particularly the tier 10 ones), and that doesn't stop any halfway decent player from playing aggressively.  I never worry about repair costs when I'm driving tier 10 tanks.  Never.

 

If you're worried about repair costs in your highest tier ships, IMO you're just not that good a player.  Start being more concerned with doing damage, getting kills, and all the other stuff that wins battles.  And let your repair costs take care of themselves.

 

I am glad to see that YOU play to win, rather than worrying about repair costs.  If repair costs are too high for a player's "wallet" they should be playing lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

 

 

Stop comparing WoWs to WOT, you can't end of story.

[Cragger]

 

Oh, bullfeathers.

 

Tier 9 and 10 tanks in WoT are incredibly expensive to repair (particularly the tier 10 ones), and that doesn't stop any halfway decent player from playing aggressively.  I never worry about repair costs when I'm driving tier 10 tanks.  Never.

 

If you're worried about repair costs in your highest tier ships, IMO you're just not that good a player.  Start being more concerned with doing damage, getting kills, and all the other stuff that wins battles.  And let your repair costs take care of themselves.

 

I am glad to see that YOU play to win, rather than worrying about repair costs.  If repair costs are too high for a player's "wallet" they should be playing lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

 

 

 

I don't run a premium in WoT except when they give it to me. You can check my WoT profile if you wish same name. I can pull a profit if I play just Okay and the team wins in Tier 10s. Here in WoWS the repair costs make even a great match a null. In WoT the most you lose is 45,000 silver unless you are slinging gold.

[Battleship_Aki]

 

 

Oh, bullfeathers.

 

Tier 9 and 10 tanks in WoT are incredibly expensive to repair (particularly the tier 10 ones), and that doesn't stop any halfway decent player from playing aggressively.  I never worry about repair costs when I'm driving tier 10 tanks.  Never.

 

If you're worried about repair costs in your highest tier ships, IMO you're just not that good a player.  Start being more concerned with doing damage, getting kills, and all the other stuff that wins battles.  And let your repair costs take care of themselves.

 

I am glad to see that YOU play to win, rather than worrying about repair costs.  If repair costs are too high for a player's "wallet" they should be playing lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

 

 

Your highest tiered ship is VII.

[Mystrl]

 

This is what an average night of gaming looks like for me right now. It's at the point where draws almost out number every other result. Of the four draws 2 would have been wins and 1 would have been a loss if the game time was longer by 4 minutes. These aren't team hiding in the corner either most of them ended with people sitting in the cap watching the timer tick down or ships shooting each other as the game ended. When ships move and turn as slow as they do if you haven't started moving towards their cap by the 10 minute mark unless the other team puts up no resistance at all the game is going to end in a draw.

[Rotary_Rocket]

 

 

1. If it's too expensive for a player to play in high tier battles, then instead of playing overly cautiously, they should play lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

2. AA bubbles:  In other words, those players are playing smart and working together, which is a GOOD thing.

 

3. I see no reason why it should be difficult to improve XP/credits awarded for shooting down planes.  OTOH, I'll agree that spotting damage may be a difficult mechanic to add.  That said, it exists in WoT, so I don't exactly see why it should be so hard to leverage from there. 

 

As for Focus Fire, that seems like the hardest of the bunch.  How does one define "focus fire" in a way that could be used programmatically?  One idea might be if you hit target ship A within, perhaps 10 seconds, after ship A was previously hit, that counts as a "focus fire" hit, as long as it's a DIFFERENT ship hitting ship A.  (You don't want to reward a single fast firing ship "focus fire" XP/credits simply because it can send a constant stream of fire onto the target ship.  The idea is to reward multiple ships focusing on the same target.)  And as long as your team keeps hitting that ship, the 10 second timer keeps being reset.  The key thing is that the process would have to reward multiple ships hitting the same target within a short period of time, and not a single ship.

 

 

 

 

 

Higher tier players should be better players I'm not sure that is the case at all though.

[Kaeldian]

I've been wanting Standard games to be done as follows (assuming the primary conditions not met)

 

1) Does one team have more cap points than the other AND has a numerical advantage?  

if not, then

2) Does one team have more cap points AND the HIT POINT advantage?

if not, then

3) If no team has cap points, but has both the numerical and hitpoint advantage?

 

That should suffice enough to deal with most of the draws.  In most cases, usually one team has a definite advantage over the other, but runs out of time.  This also keeps it simple enough for most people to remember while keeping the emphasis on kills and cap points.

[Crucis]

 

 

Oh, bullfeathers.

 

Tier 9 and 10 tanks in WoT are incredibly expensive to repair (particularly the tier 10 ones), and that doesn't stop any halfway decent player from playing aggressively.  I never worry about repair costs when I'm driving tier 10 tanks.  Never.

 

If you're worried about repair costs in your highest tier ships, IMO you're just not that good a player.  Start being more concerned with doing damage, getting kills, and all the other stuff that wins battles.  And let your repair costs take care of themselves.

 

I am glad to see that YOU play to win, rather than worrying about repair costs.  If repair costs are too high for a player's "wallet" they should be playing lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

 

 

Your highest tiered ship is VII.

 

So what?  I have a crapload of tier 10 tanks.  I know how WG operates.  Whine to someone else.  Your tears fall on deaf ears with me.

 

 

[Crucis]

 

 

1. If it's too expensive for a player to play in high tier battles, then instead of playing overly cautiously, they should play lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

2. AA bubbles:  In other words, those players are playing smart and working together, which is a GOOD thing.

 

3. I see no reason why it should be difficult to improve XP/credits awarded for shooting down planes.  OTOH, I'll agree that spotting damage may be a difficult mechanic to add.  That said, it exists in WoT, so I don't exactly see why it should be so hard to leverage from there. 

 

As for Focus Fire, that seems like the hardest of the bunch.  How does one define "focus fire" in a way that could be used programmatically?  One idea might be if you hit target ship A within, perhaps 10 seconds, after ship A was previously hit, that counts as a "focus fire" hit, as long as it's a DIFFERENT ship hitting ship A.  (You don't want to reward a single fast firing ship "focus fire" XP/credits simply because it can send a constant stream of fire onto the target ship.  The idea is to reward multiple ships focusing on the same target.)  And as long as your team keeps hitting that ship, the 10 second timer keeps being reset.  The key thing is that the process would have to reward multiple ships hitting the same target within a short period of time, and not a single ship.

 

 

 

 

 

Higher tier players should be better players I'm not sure that is the case at all though.

 

On average, they are.  But "on average" doesn't mean that there aren't some weaker players in the mix.  Just play WoT with XVM installed.  Play a number of tier 10 battles and a number of tier 4-5 battles.  And you'll see that on average, the players in the tier 10 tanks are better than the players in the tier 5 tanks.  And I fully expect that it would or will end up the same here, given enough time.

[Crucis]

I've been wanting Standard games to be done as follows (assuming the primary conditions not met)

 

1) Does one team have more cap points than the other AND has a numerical advantage?  

if not, then

2) Does one team have more cap points AND the HIT POINT advantage?

if not, then

3) If no team has cap points, but has both the numerical and hitpoint advantage?

 

That should suffice enough to deal with most of the draws.  In most cases, usually one team has a definite advantage over the other, but runs out of time.  This also keeps it simple enough for most people to remember while keeping the emphasis on kills and cap points.

 

 

Anything related hit points in determining victory is an unfair measure.  For starters, if one team has 5 DDs and the other only 1 DD, the team with 1 DD has more HP on its team.  And the team with 5 DDs has fewer total HP for the other team to farm damage from.

 

Regardless, why bother with this?  Why reinvent the wheel?  Just use the existing and entirely functional Domination mode rules on the "Standard" 2 cap circle and "Encounter" 1 cap circle maps instead of the current victory conditions, and that will end the overwhelming majority of draws instantly.

[Crucis]

 

Oh, bullfeathers.

 

Tier 9 and 10 tanks in WoT are incredibly expensive to repair (particularly the tier 10 ones), and that doesn't stop any halfway decent player from playing aggressively.  I never worry about repair costs when I'm driving tier 10 tanks.  Never.

 

If you're worried about repair costs in your highest tier ships, IMO you're just not that good a player.  Start being more concerned with doing damage, getting kills, and all the other stuff that wins battles.  And let your repair costs take care of themselves.

 

I am glad to see that YOU play to win, rather than worrying about repair costs.  If repair costs are too high for a player's "wallet" they should be playing lower tier ships to improve their credit balance.

 

 

 

Stop comparing WoWs to WOT, you can't end of story.

 

 

Epilogue to story.  Yes, you can.  Same game company.  Same underlying philosophy.  They don't want you making money in the high tiers unless you have excellent games, because they want to force people to play games in lesser tier ships to populate those battles.  Doesn't matter if it's tanks or ships, the philosophy is independent of the details.  NOW, it's the end of the story.

 

 

[ButtonsPushed]

By points works for me. Another way would be to count the highest partial cap. Another possibility would be to progressively reduce the time it takes to cap the enemy base based on time remaining in the game, that would prevent people from just resigning to a draw and not even trying since the time remaining is below 3 minutes. 

[Ryno_Caval]

Okay, I get that you guys have strong opinions but this really wasn't meant to be somewhere to boast or shame people. Yes this is not WOT and the economy is a little wonky but you can see a significant difference in WOT higher tier game play and WOWS higher tier game play and that is a bit of an issue and it rolls back to the lack of credits at higher tiers because of the overwhelming number of draws that occur during this level of play. Again if you can't afford to repair your ship it makes it less likely that you will play aggressively and play the objectives (this seems to be a NA server problem). I have friends from other games that play on the EU server and when playing on the public test you don't see this as often. However, that is another topic for another time. The objective game play actually allows for better engagements and more strategic play and there are ways to encourage team play and adding incentives for playing the objectives but without a wiki explaining the experience and credit distribution as there is for tanks people will continue to do what is the norm and that is going for the kill every time which in my opinion it rather foolish but it is the current focus of all games as damage dealt is what your main chunk of exp and credits is based off of and the exp and credits for everything else is rather dismal as far as what is known to the public without the breakdown being readily available.