Fix battleship damage at close range

[Crustay]

So, I just got out of a game, where I was 8km away from a cruiser and i fired full broadside and did a HUGE hit. 2300 actually. 7 hits, from 8km away, center mass, from an amagi, and i get 2300?! REALLY?! I mean come on. Battleship players play BBs for the big guns and big ships.

 

But then, we have cruisers sailing around, spamming HE and getting 4k a salvo. WHAT?! How does that make sense? That's not counting the fires either. I really hope something gets done about this.

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

was the cruiser angled?

did you fire HE or AP?   considering you didn't hit a citadel and did so low dmg i'm guessing your 7 AP shots all overpenned  (as 7 HE shots from an Amagi's high caliber gun on a low armored cruiser would do upwards of 10k-16k dmg as the HE has so much penetration for its caliber, and doesn't overpen, but explodes on contact)

 

if the cruiser was flat on, you would have overpenned it for minor dmg. which would explain the low dmg. and your only hope is to hit a citadel.   AP is all or nothing against cruisers.    the only ships that AP is constant dmg against is BBs who can bounce, or be penned and the shell loses the penetration required to overpen, and thus explodes in the ship.

 

if it was angled, maybe a few shots would have penned....(if its a heavily armored cruiser like a Zao.. or tier 8-10 USN.  but for the most part cruisers have citadel armor. and belt armor.   and no other armor that will stop an AP shell flying straight through the ship for minor dmg)

-but many more shots would have ricochet.  aka bounce if they hit armor angled at 70 degrees or more. these count as hits, but do no dmg.  this is how cruisers deflect any BB shells(mostly from the bow.)

 

unfortunately cruisers have so little armor, that unless you hit their citadel, the AP shells find no resistance and fly through at basically ANY angle.  and thus AP is bad unless you hit a citadel. (seriously. cruisers have up to 76mm hull.  whats the pen on BB guns? 450-600?   try to see how angled the hull would need to be to stop those shells from overpenning)

 

 

where did the shots hit?  while the belt of cruisers is pretty pointless(~114mm) its possible it might have bounced a few of your hits (just cause you hit doesnt mean it pens.   it could mean it bounced off the angled belt or hit a 0 dmg area on the deck house)

-you'd be surprised how many shots do 0 dmg on the deck house cause they hit a part of it where there isn't ANYTHING to dmg,  and the shell flies through due to nothing there to dmg.

 

 

 

However, there's more than just hitting a ship with a shell, the way the shell penetrates (or not penetrate) the ship matters. Below is how damage is calculated since version 0.2.4/0.3.0.

• Non-penetrations (bounce/ricochet) will always deal 0 damage, regardless of AP or HE. However, HE shells still has a chance to start fires or break modules with its splash damage. Splash damage will never deal HP damage.
• Penetrations deal x0.33 of the shell's listed damage. Whether AP or HE, it must penetrate the armor and detonate inside the ship.
• Over-penetrations deal x0.10 of the shell's listed damage. Over-penetration is when a shell penetrates the ship through-and-through, before it has a chance to detonate inside the ship. Theoretically HE will never over-penetrate due to its low detonator threshold and shorter fuze.
• Citadel hits will always deal x1.0 of the shell's listed damage. This is only achieved if the shell penetrates the armor and the citadel (vital parts of the ship which usually enclosed in more armor). Even though HE has low penetration and almost instantaneous fuzes, it's still possible to get a citadel hit using HE if the target's armor is thin enough and the citadel hitbox is close enough to the first layer of armor.
• Penetrations on a destroyer's midsection will deal x0.5 of the shell's listed damage. It is impossible to get a citadel hit on a destroyer, as they no longer have them per se (was removed in 0.2.4/0.3.0). Due to their thin armor, HE works best as AP will almost always over-penetrate a destroyer.
•  

Sims' 5" shell damage = AP: 2100, HE: 1800

AP and HE bounces on Yamato's main belt = 0 Damage

AP penetrations above Yamato's main belt = 693 damage (x0.33)

AP over-penetrations on Yamato's superstructure = 210 damage (x0.1)

HE penetrations on Yamato's superstructure = 594 damage (x0.33)

AP hits on Ibuki's citadel = 2100 damage (x1.0)

AP over-penetrations on Fletcher's midsection = 210 damage (x0.1)

AP penetrations on Fletcher's midsection (via underwater hit) = 1050 damage (x0.5)

HE penetrations on Fletcher's midsection = 900 damage (x0.5)

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/41728-dealing-damage-in-wows/

 

so yeah, you bounced some shots.

you hit some 0 dmg areas

and you got some overpens.

 

try HE next time, or hope for a citadel hit(BBs just need to touch a citadel of a cruiser to pen it.  thats how much overkill pen BB have)

 

-if overpen mechanics worked for cruiser citadels, BBs have so much penetration power they would never have a shell explode in the citadel,  it would always overpen.

thats the difference in armor and penetration power of BBs and cruisers.

Cruisers struggle to pen BBs

BBs struggle to NOT overpen cruisers.

 

but mechanics for citadels lead to BBs have the advantage.

hence Cruisers relying on HE rather than the next to useless AP of their 203mm guns

[VIRUS_K]

BB accuracy is getting a buff in the next patch for close range encounters

[Francois424]

BB accuracy is getting a buff in the next patch for close range encounters

 

Not at 8km like the OP's situation.  Only up to 3km.

And the OP did hit, he just didn't do any damage worth mentioning.

 

 

I'm sure he got burned to the ground by his opponent tho, who knows.

[soulsedge]

 

Not at 8km like the OP's situation.  Only up to 3km.

And the OP did hit, he just didn't do any damage worth mentioning.

 

 

I'm sure he got burned to the ground by his opponent tho, who knows.

 

no doubt he did.

 

BB seems to be fodder for everyone until about tier 9. (not counting the top 5% of players)

[Mesrith]

BB seems to be fodder for everyone until about tier 9. (not counting the top 5% of players)

 

I'm not seeing all the problems that people are claiming about battleships.  I'm not sure if that says something about me, or about everyone else, but it's always going to be a matter of perspective.  If somebody is struggling in battleships, they're going to be inclined to feel like the class is weak.  The same thing goes for whatever class is their personal nemesis, in which case they believe it's too strong.

 

I personally feel that battleships are bad at tier 3, mediocre at tier 4 (and hard for new players to handle low-tier destroyers), get really solid in tiers 5-7, and then are fantastic at tiers 8+.

[Crustay]

First off, thanks for the response guys. The cruiser was angled very slightly. Coming towards me as well. Also, i'm pretty sure it was an atago. and from what i saw when i did the shell tracking, the majority of the shells hit center mass. I hear what youre saying about trying HE, but when a bb has AP loaded already thats what is going to be fired. With a 30 second reload, and a cruiser right there, switching ammo would just be giving the enemy the upper hand. Probably a kill.

 

Yeah, BBs are getting a buff. But at ranges up to 3-3.5 km. LOL! How many engagements do you have at that close of range? Besides tier 1-3. Then in those tiers the only BBs are South Carolina and Kawachi. Well for now.