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Whiskey_Brawler_2015

Minekaze isnt the problem issue is players playing like it is WOT

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Actually this is my beef with WG, yesterday i played 3 games in minekaze using 10km torps. I got 5 kills each match all of them battleships.

You know why? they sail in straight line!!!!who sails in straight line?? most of my victims were not even engaged in firefights, they were just meandering like tourists.
    Maybe if wg did tutorials for these new players on torpedology and why jay walking in straight line is a criminal offence in WOWS. I can compile list of battleships and even cruisers that stop to shoot and reserve back behind a island, making themselves juicy targets for DDs. So if we are jumping on their mistakes to capitalise, we get hit by a nerf bat, what a way to go WG!!! No wonder all the promotional posters for WOWS shows only battleships

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Alpha Tester
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Actually this is my beef with WG, yesterday i played 3 games in minekaze using 10km torps. I got 5 kills each match--

 

Stopped reading here. Minekaze was OP; it's getting fixed. Deal with the fact you no longer have your long range torpmobile.

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Yep, the Minekaze is the one ship you wouldn't think twice about taking into a tier 10 battle.....can't think of any other tier 5 I would want to do that with.

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Stopped reading here. Minekaze was OP; it's getting fixed. Deal with the fact you no longer have your long range torpmobile.

 

what are the nerfs?

 

I mean, other than the fact it dies really fast once spotted, is easily dealt with by other DD's with actually useful guns, lacks hit points and is particularly unforgiving to being spotted, I don't see how it is OP.

 

or is it the fact that it out performs many that need buffs?

Edited by Oicraftian

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what are the nerfs?

 

I mean, other than the fact it dies really fast once spotted, is easily dealt with by other DD's with actually useful guns, lacks hit points and is particularly unforgiving to being spotted, I don't see how it is OP.

 

or is it the fact that it out performs many that need buffs?

 

Search  - 4.1 and all will be revealed

 

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Stopped reading here. Minekaze was OP; it's getting fixed. Deal with the fact you no longer have your long range torpmobile.

 

i call that selective reading, that sentence is part of a whole paragraph. Please read it all unless you like driving in straight lines too :)

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Stopped reading here. Minekaze was OP; it's getting fixed. Deal with the fact you no longer have your long range torpmobile.

 

It is basically the same as before.

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Alpha Tester
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I don't mind losing the 10km torps, I never used them anyway since the fast torps are harder to dodge. I am worried about the spotting range change. With the fast torps you had just over a km window for a stealth launch. That's not much of a window. What's it going to be now? 

 

The OP is right about BBs, they really need to learn not to drive in a straight line at a steady speed while there are still DDs alive somewhere on the map (or not, they are fun to sink). 

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Quick reloads made it a huge threat. Its one of the DDs that could throw enough crapin a battle line's direction and some will eventually hit. It'll take a while though, especially if the BB does do preventative measures.

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There are several problems at play really.  BBs are very slow compared to the rest of the fleet.  If they change speed and direction, they lose speed, fall behind the fleet and end up doing nothing all game.  Play safe by altering course and speed for a dozen games when nothing happens to you, but you slowed yourself down to where you can't participate, you'd stop playing safe also.  BBs are not very maneuverable, by the time the torps drop/appear, there isn't a whole lot someone can do.  Good players will turn into or away from income threats, but you really can't tell with DDs that can stay hidden.

On top of all of that though, true, your biggest problem is bad players.  But that is a fact of life.  Half the players are below average, and honestly, the average players are pretty bad.  There is no amount of effort that can change this.  If they don't want to take the effort to improve, they won't improve.  If they want to improve, they can and will do it on their own.

Most WOT nerfs aren't always from a position of a tank being OP, but from a position of the average player can't figure out how to deal with a tank.  This makes that tank look OP because it gets inflated numbers.

That being said, the minekaze is OP.

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i call that selective reading, that sentence is part of a whole paragraph. Please read it all unless you like driving in straight lines too :)

 

I don't need to read the rest of the post to know it's you being upset over losing a three KM buffer between your detection range and maximum torpedo range. It's not selective reading, it's predictive. No other ship at that tier enjoys such risk free attack capability, not even the Grem.

 

Battleships driving in straight lines is not what makes the Minekaze OP. It's stupid torp range combined with its small detection radius is what makes it OP. There's a reason its the most played and most successful DD in the game right now. Stop trying to dress up your argument as anything but ulterior.

 

Saddle up and accept you'll need to start taking more risks for your torp runs just like everyone else. 

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I don't need to read the rest of the post to know it's you being upset over losing a three KM buffer between your detection range and maximum torpedo range. It's not selective reading, it's predictive. No other ship at that tier enjoys such risk free attack capability, not even the Grem.

 

Battleships driving in straight lines is not what makes the Minekaze OP. It's stupid torp range combined with its small detection radius is what makes it OP. There's a reason its the most played and most successful DD in the game right now. Stop trying to dress up your argument as anything but ulterior.

 

Saddle up and accept you'll need to start taking more risks for your torp runs just like everyone else. 

 

Seriously if you get hit by torps launched at 10km, you are a moron plain and simple. As long as there still is space to launch the torps without being seen (and there is), nothing changed.
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Seriously if you get hit by torps launched at 10km, you are a moron plain and simple. As long as there still is space to launch the torps without being seen (and there is), nothing changed.

 

A great deal changed. 3km is a lot of room to have for mistakes. 0.8km? Not so much. Can you still launch undetected? Sure, but it'll be damn hard especially if your target turns into you.

 

I agree that getting hit by torps at long range is showing of a lack of situational awareness, but my beef with the Minekaze was the lack of risk it has in spamming torps and remaining undetected. 

 

Now that it has a margin of error more in line with other DDs, Minekaze drivers will not be so carefree with their fish.

 

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Cant speak for whoever you were playing against OP, but frankly even with shimmying and being careful to never show my broadside to a Minekazie, I still get wasted by them enough... in my fairly nimble CAs so its not just a lack of player fundamentals.  Th Min-e is in fact a death delivering ninja.

Edited by Sunsanvil

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I'm looking forward to wrecking people with the "post-nerf" Minekaze.  Maybe then they'll realize that it the ship wasn't the problem in the equation. 

 

For the record, very few good Minekaze captains waste time with the 10km torps.  They move too slow.  

 

Also, the Mutsuki currently has 10km torps and the same detection range as the Minekaze.  Where's the outrage?  More importantly: why isn't it OP too? (Hint: it isn't.  The only torpedo hits you get at that kind of range are pure luck.)

 

 

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why are you all crying on the 10km torp. i used them and i could hit only 2 thing: really close targets or people not aware of their surrounding. the 10km torp are freaking slow, im almost as fast as them in a minekaze so ppl have a loooong time to avoid them if they react as soon as the torp are detected. i think i missed cruisers and BBs more often than not because those torp are so slow. Appart from that, everything else is crappy on the mine. Is health, is guns, is AA....

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Stopped reading here. Minekaze was OP; it's getting fixed. Deal with the fact you no longer have your long range torpmobile.

 

 

Actually, data shows it was one of the only Destroyers actually operating on even footing with other classes of its tier.  Other DDs all were and are UP, so your statement is incorrect and your unwillingness to read an entire article before passing judgment also makes your take on the subject....less than realiable.  Especially when you use a term like 'torpmobile' as though that is not what Destroyers, and IJN DDs in particular, are precisely supposed to be.  They were called 'Torpedo Boat Destroyers' for a reason, you know.

 

 

However, you are correct in that it doesn't matter if those who couldn't think in terms of team play and actually using counter-tactics got their way by screaming when every rational statement contradicted their standpoint.  This is what the devs are doing to the ship, and we have to deal with it.  It will now function on the sub-standard level of other Destroyers, and no doubt that will please those who never put in the time to learn the class.  It does, however, open the door to class-wide buffs in the future that will no doubt be required when DDs continue to underperform, likely resulting in all DDs eventually becoming what the Minekaze has been, if the devs do their job of game balance properly.

 

 

For now, we adapt and move on, accepting that those who play DDs simply have to be better players than the others in the game to succeed on the same level as those without the crippling disadvantages the DD captains face.

 

 

why are you all crying on the 10km torp. i used them and i could hit only 2 thing: really close targets or people not aware of their surrounding. the 10km torp are freaking slow, im almost as fast as them in a minekaze so ppl have a loooong time to avoid them if they react as soon as the torp are detected. i think i missed cruisers and BBs more often than not because those torp are so slow. Appart from that, everything else is crappy on the mine. Is health, is guns, is AA....

 

Well, different people are good at different things, and some people had a knack for the 10km torps while others used the 7km better.  I know I consistently did better with the 10s than the 7s, and that was probably because I played differently than those who were used to lower fire-to-target times in their attacks.  Regardless, don't discard other people's ability to use a weapon because it didn't work for you....there are people who regularly got 4-5+ kills with them, so they couldn't have been ineffective.

Edited by Jakob_Knight
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i call that selective reading, that sentence is part of a whole paragraph. Please read it all unless you like driving in straight lines too :)

 

how about you play less than half your games total in something other than the Minekaze and Isokaze first..... oh wait.... you're already playing over half of your games in the same 2 ships and then crying that the Minekaze isn't OP...... sure....no agenda driven arguments here eh?...

 

 

 

Saddle up and accept you'll need to start taking more risks for your torp runs just like everyone else. 

 

 

I'd be willing to bet he moves on to a different ship or line the day after the patch drops, no sooner...lol

 

 

Edited by ThatOneDay

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Actually, data shows it was one of the only Destroyers actually operating on even footing with other classes of its tier. 

 

Let me start with the obvious: where exactly is this "data" you are referencing?

 

Other DDs all were and are UP, so your statement is incorrect and your unwillingness to read an entire article before passing judgment also makes your take on the subject....less than realiable. 

 

The best part about this statement is that despite the fact you feel my take on the subject is less than reliable, it doesn't change the fact that I am right.

 

Especially when you use a term like 'torpmobile' as though that is not what Destroyers, and IJN DDs in particular, are precisely supposed to be.  They were called 'Torpedo Boat Destroyers' for a reason, you know.

 

I did not use the term 'torpmobile' to describe the problem with the ship. My problem with the Minekaze is it's ability to engage other ships regardless of their class with no risk to their own vessel. 

 

BB's, CA's and CL's inflict harm by putting themselves in harm's way. Generally when they have line of sight to an enemy, so do they. CV's are an exception, but their finite number of planes coupled with their near defenseless state when caught in direct fire I feel is a fair trade. DD's need this same sense of risk/reward. They shouldn't be able to spam torps while remaining completely undetected, thus mitigating any risk. There should be a gamble that, with good positioning and timing, can be reduced but not eliminated. I'd be fine with torpedo ranges exceeding detection ranges by a generous degree if torpedo launches revealed the destroyer for a certain amount of time, just like if they fired their guns. This gives attentive players a 'window' to be proactive against an attack (and fire upon the DD if they happen to be on the ball), however a DD who either gets in close or catches a target unaware is rewarded for their risk taken with a crippling hit, or an outright kill.

 

I do not deny that DD's need adjustment. Right now they peak at Tier V in terms of survivability and contribution to the team (there's a reason I haven't touched my Sims or went past the Mahan in CBT). As to how that balance can be struck is difficult to say, but in the current meta at this moment, the Minekaze's nerf was well-deserved and needed until the rest of the class can be adjusted further down the road.

 

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Funny that everyone that thinks DDs are OP have never played one past Tier V.

 

Those tiers have few planes in the air, lower player skill, no rudder shift mod, not likely to have picked up the torp acquisition captain skill or have learned how to avoid tunnel vision. 

 

The stats people are citing can be found here:

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/

 

Short version - DDs do less damage, earn less XP, win less, die more and in general are worse that just about every ship barring the real lemons.  Even in the hands of the top 10% of players.  Only exceptions are:

 

Minekaze

Gremlin

 

If you learn how, when and where to shoot in this game...you get hits, you sink ships, you get xp and credits.  Nobody complains when they're caught broadside by an AP BB barrage that sinks them.  Or when a CA one-shots a DD before they even get a chance to fire their torps...all because a CV flew a plane over their position and there is nothing a DD can do about it.

 

Somehow, when a DD sinks something other than another DD, everyone cries like a baby.

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Seriously.... What`s the difference between the Minekazes phenomenal 10km range at it`s tier when that`s the whole POINT of the Japanese DD line... Firing torps with impunity until spotted. So are you saying the Fubuki and Kagerou are "broken" at their tiers because they can fire at extreme ranges and not take any damage in return? I`m sorry, that just sounds weird. Never used the 10km torps but it`s feels semi unnecessary compared to what I actually feel is the broken part which is reload... Which is a problem every tier 5 DD and below, has.

If you are taking torps at the 10km range, even if the Minekaze`s is NOT spotted, it`s your own fault if you tank them all or a large majority of them.

If you learn how, when and where to shoot in this game...you get hits, you sink ships, you get xp and credits.  Nobody complains when they're caught broadside by an AP BB barrage that sinks them.  Or when a CA one-shots a DD before they even get a chance to fire their torps...all because a CV flew a plane over their position and there is nothing a DD can do about it.

 

Somehow, when a DD sinks something other than another DD, everyone cries like a baby.

Tell me about it... The reason I think people get butt hurt is because they refuse to change anything about how they play. They then insist that since they can`t figure out anything is wrong with themselves they toss the blame on whatever is their "source" of the "problem". Whatever, keep nerfing DDs into the ground WG... It`s definitely the DDs and torpedoes that are the problem. 

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Stopped reading here. Minekaze was OP; it's getting fixed. Deal with the fact you no longer have your long range torpmobile.

 

On my match where I got 7 kills I was in full sight of the enemy when I made my attacks. Its not that easy to hit targets at long range as one would think. Its a lot easier to charge head on at them and torp them at very close range. Its just a matter of timing to charge them when they are busy shooting at something else.

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I'm looking forward to wrecking people with the "post-nerf" Minekaze.  Maybe then they'll realize that it the ship wasn't the problem in the equation. 

 

For the record, very few good Minekaze captains waste time with the 10km torps.  They move too slow.  

 

Also, the Mutsuki currently has 10km torps and the same detection range as the Minekaze.  Where's the outrage?  More importantly: why isn't it OP too? (Hint: it isn't.  The only torpedo hits you get at that kind of range are pure luck.)

 

 

 

Or you know to fire them at distracted enemies.  Or you're trying to get big lumbering ships like BB's to change direction so they can't accurately bring their fire to bear on friendlies.  Or you're launching them down narrow channels to try to deter enemy ships from going down them (area denial).  There's tons of reasons to use the 10km torps over the shorter ranged fast ones, albeit the majority of them aren't typically going to result in a lot of hits because they're team-oriented uses.

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On my match where I got 7 kills I was in full sight of the enemy when I made my attacks. Its not that easy to hit targets at long range as one would think. Its a lot easier to charge head on at them and torp them at very close range. Its just a matter of timing to charge them when they are busy shooting at something else.

 

My only issue is that nine times out of ten when I'm charging, purely head-on or at an angle, the secondaries of the ship I'm targeting will knock out my steering, engines, or both.  I'll repair them, only to have one or the other or both knocked out again.  This happens a lot...most memorable one was back in CBT charging a lone Lexington with my Fubuki, starting the charge at full health only to have my engines knocked out twice in a row, followed by my steering...I couldn't swing the ship around to fire my torpedoes and, being a sitting duck at that point, got hit by the torpedo bombers.

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Things are finally starting to get fair for BB players against those OP Destroyers. Here comes the ninja torps nerf. 1 problem down.

 

Now, let's move on to the next issue. Last game, I was merrily sailing along an island when suddenly, a destroyer appeared from behind a patch of land, and fired a full salvo of torpedoes at me from 3km away. Obviously, there's nothing I could do. What bothers me is that I had absolutly NO WAY of knowing there was a DD behind that island, since my seaplane was on cooldown (I used it right at the start of the game, because it looks cool).

 

So, I suggest we make DDs visible through islands when they are...say...less than 6km away. That way, they will be forced to engage into a manly gun duel with my ship, because that's the only fair way to play. Expect for long distance shots, perhaps. DD are way too fast and nimble to hit when they are 20km away. Let's keep their model as is, if that's historical, but gameplay wise, we should increase their hitbox to that of a Battleship. For the sake of balance, of course.

 

</sarcasm>

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