High Tier Gameplay. What is wrong up there?

[TurboT]

Alright I need to ask all of you who have ground your way up into tier 8+ how you find the "upper level" of game play is. 

 

Recently I have ground through the Shokaku and now the Taiho, and I'm finding the upper tier games to be awfully full of really bad play.   I am rarely in a game where I felt it was a strong even matchup, and usually, I'm on the wrong end of a terrible, terrible roflstomp.    As an example, today while playing the Taiho, half my team was dead before I could relaunch my second wave of attack planes, and there was no enemy CV on the other team.

 

So before we discuss that "I should carry harder", please note that my CV stats are reasonable, (without looking at the win/rate) I do damage or I shoot down planes.   I just had a game where I shot down 59 Planes, did 100K damage, reset the cap 5 times, and lost, to a team who had a TK'er at the start.   Its tough to carry when your team is dead before you can get another wave of planes out.  I will admit there are always better players out there, but I don't feel I'm an awful player and contributing to the epic failsauce losses.

 

I don't get the disconnect.  I expected that when I ground to higher tiers the level of play would be better. Better formations, better group tactics, higher HP pools ships alive longer.  All I see is players spreading out, racing out to their deaths, and generally playing stupid. 

 

Is this a "converted XP" to get there from my Noobtago syndrome? Or is it something else? 

 

What is everyone's experience here?

 

[Happy_Thoughts]

Most people on tier 9 and 10s know what they are doing, so of course there is a large amount of disconnect.

Taihou is one of the best ships to carry a team with, you are just incoherent with your team providing you the defense you need or you are positioning yourself incorrectly

[Doutech]

I have t7 ships for now but I've been matched in t8 games but had t8 ships in CBT. Basically most of my games are more coordinated than the lower tiers. As a BB player I'm starting to get more cruiser escort but I see that most of the OBT players are moving up into the higher tier (I can tell by the daily complaints of the repair costs of high tier ships) and still play the same as they do in the lower tier matches.

[TurboT]

Most people on tier 9 and 10s know what they are doing, so of course there is a large amount of disconnect.

Taihou is one of the best ships to carry a team with, you are just incoherent with your team providing you the defense you need or you are positioning yourself incorrectly

 

I'm going to be fair with you. I've had the Taiho one day and am running a virtually stock set up, outside the one 3 fighter flight control mod.  

 

I appreciate your feedback because I know you're a strong player, but what you've said is not that relevant.   How can any CV carry a match when their team 1/2 dead before the second wave of planes is in the air.  I would add in this example, by the time I had the third wave in the air, I was surrounded by 4 DDs. 

 

I am always willing to learn.  In the game I face off against YOU today, you did not see the chat on our side of the game.  Both the Midway and myself went to the right of the map, and said we were going to do so.  Things got hairy, you sent planes in, we sent planes at you, you sent planes back at us, and when I looked at the map after all that plane clicking, the entire team had left us alone.  The Midway was blue lining it at the back, and I turned around to try to get back to the fleet.  Asked the team in chat to hustle a CA over to escort me as I knew you'd be coming in for another wave.  The response I got was, "Screw you CV." or something to that effect. 

 

So again, telling ME I need to carry an entire team is somewhat ignorant, since there is a lot you don't know of what goes on.

 

[Memo_collector]

In all honesty, your CV stats does not look good.  A couple of things come to mind:

1. Are you killing DDs and CAs? You can kill any target that is travelling without a strong AA cover in all IJN CV loadouts and should do so as opportunity presents itself.

2. Do you stay with your fleet?  There's no reason for a CV to be more than 5-10 km away from the fleet, except maybe in Hotspots.

3. Choosing the right target is very important for a CV player.  Always be willing to change target if you see a vulnerable ship.  Compare your performance against the enemy CV when you are evenly matched.  If the enemy CV player consistently makes kills before you do, that should tell you something.

[DemonsofRazgriz]

I've seen this problem a lot in my Tier 7 Mahan. Its kind of disparaging. Many players seem to have free xp-d their way up there (yes i have looked up a lot of players who have failed in the high tiers) They always seem to own an Atago/Atlanta/Murmansk and they have 500 battles in that then suddenly some tier 7-8 ship with no battles beneath those tiers

 

[a709s33]

well one of the reason is that this game is still new, you will see some (i am not saying all) that use free exp to skip tier or just go all the way to high tier, the tier spread is not balance at all, give it more time to develop, allow more experience player to get up there without skipping tier

[How_About_Me_Spechan]

High tiers? I'll give three questions. Are you good enough to carry? Is your team having advantage in tier or ship lead? Did your team just stand behind to taking popcorn or actually trying to do stuff? 

 

Here are some of my personal views of what a player should do in general.

As a BB, eliminate everything broadside in front of you in range, take fire from the enemy and tank all the way out for support. Your job is only to kill things that is in visual range and taking fire for your team. As a CA, giving supports to BB as your main job, clean up other vulnerable ships like enemy CA or DD while providing supports. As a DD, your ultimate target is BB and CV, if both of them are not in range or good angle to torp just give vision to your team as much as possible while changing your position in the map, also if you think there is a great change to eliminate anyone of them you can try to do so under the circumstance of not dying. As a CV, your job is to disable someone in the fight, from either putting planes on top of a DD, dropping on enemy team or eat all planes from the enemy CV.

 

I'll say this game is also about doing less mistakes while requiring good aiming skills and cooperating with the team, especially in high tiers because BB can one shot CA, DD can kill things in 4 torp hits, CA can hit things hard and burn while providing support, and of course the "Sky Cancer" will dominate the game if you drop them good amount of damage each run because you won't run out of planes easily. 

 

I won't rate myself as the best player in the server, but at least I still know what I should do in each situation and try to lead my team to the win as much as possible.

[TurboT]

In all honesty, your CV stats does not look good.  A couple of things come to mind:

1. Are you killing DDs and CAs? You can kill any target that is travelling without a strong AA cover in all IJN CV loadouts and should do so as opportunity presents itself.

2. Do you stay with your fleet?  There's no reason for a CV to be more than 5-10 km away from the fleet, except maybe in Hotspots.

3. Choosing the right target is very important for a CV player.  Always be willing to change target if you see a vulnerable ship.  Compare your performance against the enemy CV when you are evenly matched.  If the enemy CV player consistently makes kills before you do, that should tell you something.

 

Again I'm honest with myself to say I'm not the best CV player out there. However, my stats are not 'terrible' they just aren't 'elite' like some others. 

 

With that in mind, I can say in maybe 5% of the losses I've had the enemy CV isn't outplaying me, it's usually the opposite. 

 

I have never focused on kills, only trying to weaken enemy ships and do as much damage as possible.   

 

..maybe my focus should be on killing and not doing damage.

[Leeferr]

No difference here than in WoT with upper tiers.

[SweetRollThief]

I feel you TurboT, I had a bad night playing the benson. Almost every team I was on was pretty bad. Don't listen to any of this "you need to carry more stuff" (that wasn't the point of the thread at all anyway), just keep playing and getting better. 

 

To answer your original question, yes i agree there is a surprising amount of high tier players that are bad, if you end up on a team full of noob atagos and atlantas and the other team is full of experienced divisons, there is nothing u can do really except get as much damage as possible. Ranked battles should be interesting, and as time goes on hopefully we will see less derpy players at high tier. The new CV MM should help as well.  good luck!

[Cragger]

Well for starters the game wasn't ready for OBT. IJN 9-10 CVs were pretty much thrown in at the last second and so the balance is completely out the window with them.

 

Then you have the fact that to make a quick buck they had Tier 8 premiums for sale waiting at the door for people to buy. Now while I'm not going to say that every Atago player is a bad player I will say that ships such as the Atago, Atlanta, etc are played with a more 'carefree' attitude then line ship because well.. you are hard pressed to lose credits on them and it isn't like the XP does anything for you. So you can effectively write those premium ships off generally as a player that isn't going to try to win the match for the team.

[Mystrl]

No higher tiers =/= better gameplay especially since I swear 90% of the cruiser population is atagos and atlantas. That being said 39% winrate in a shokaku over 114 battles points towards something with your gameplay beyond bad teams. That or you're just one of those outliers in any population that get shafted by rng and get unwinnable games every other match.

[Aim_AT_RedDot]

Alright I need to ask all of you who have ground your way up into tier 8+ how you find the "upper level" of game play is. 

 

Recently I have ground through the Shokaku and now the Taiho, and I'm finding the upper tier games to be awfully full of really bad play.   I am rarely in a game where I felt it was a strong even matchup, and usually, I'm on the wrong end of a terrible, terrible roflstomp.    As an example, today while playing the Taiho, half my team was dead before I could relaunch my second wave of attack planes, and there was no enemy CV on the other team.

 

So before we discuss that "I should carry harder", please note that my CV stats are reasonable, (without looking at the win/rate) I do damage or I shoot down planes.   I just had a game where I shot down 59 Planes, did 100K damage, reset the cap 5 times, and lost, to a team who had a TK'er at the start.   Its tough to carry when your team is dead before you can get another wave of planes out.  I will admit there are always better players out there, but I don't feel I'm an awful player and contributing to the epic failsauce losses.

 

I don't get the disconnect.  I expected that when I ground to higher tiers the level of play would be better. Better formations, better group tactics, higher HP pools ships alive longer.  All I see is players spreading out, racing out to their deaths, and generally playing stupid. 

 

Is this a "converted XP" to get there from my Noobtago syndrome? Or is it something else? 

 

What is everyone's experience here?

 

 

If your teamates die too fast, then it is not your problem; however, I have looked into your account, avg. of 1400 xp, you need to play more.

[Elysion]

i am never surprised when an atago torps a team mate while heading straight into the entire enemy team.

[TurboT]

 

If your teamates die too fast, then it is not your problem; however, I have looked into your account, avg. of 1400 xp, you need to play more.

 

Nice stats bro...  I couldn't tell you were that proficient from the game I saw you in.

 

[TurboT]

well one of the reason is that this game is still new, you will see some (i am not saying all) that use free exp to skip tier or just go all the way to high tier, the tier spread is not balance at all, give it more time to develop, allow more experience player to get up there without skipping tier

 

o7 bud. Haven't hit you in game in a while.

[TurboT]

No higher tiers =/= better gameplay especially since I swear 90% of the cruiser population is atagos and atlantas. That being said 39% winrate in a shokaku over 114 battles points towards something with your gameplay beyond bad teams. That or you're just one of those outliers in any population that get shafted by rng and get unwinnable games every other match.

 

My win rate really ticks me off in the Shokaku.   A little deeper dive at it is probably worthy.  The first thing is I have a 9.5% Draw rate in this game, and I know, without being able to quanitify it, that that ship has the highest percentage of all my ships of Draws.  So, the way the w/r is calculated, a DRAW = A LOSS in that stat.  I really would not be surprised at 15-20% Draw rate in that ship.

 

With that in mind, my AVG XP PER BATTLE in the Shokaku is 1800, pushing upwards of a fairly strong game in a win.  I feel attaining 1800 XP on a 38% Win/Rate is pretty high, considering you gain more XP for the win.

 

You might see one or two players a game with base XP levels of over 1600 in a winning battle, and MAYBE 1 or 2 over 2000.  To AVERAGE 1800 in a ship with a win rate that low must tell you I was holding my own throughout.  Now I probably could've scored a higher avg damage rate, but I'd say half of my grind I used the 2/2/2 loadout until I decided the fighters were just getting creamed, and I was better off without them. Carrying the 2 fighters dragged down my avg dmg quite substantially.  I really don't enjoy fighter play. Mindlessly clicking planes distracts me from watching the map looking for lone ships or an opportunity to attack with TBs.

[pigrushrush]

I am always willing to learn.  In the game I face off against YOU today, you did not see the chat on our side of the game.  Both the Midway and myself went to the right of the map, and said we were going to do so.  Things got hairy, you sent planes in, we sent planes at you, you sent planes back at us, and when I looked at the map after all that plane clicking, the entire team had left us alone.  The Midway was blue lining it at the back, and I turned around to try to get back to the fleet.  Asked the team in chat to hustle a CA over to escort me as I knew you'd be coming in for another wave.  The response I got was, "Screw you CV." or something to that effect. 

 

So again, telling ME I need to carry an entire team is somewhat ignorant, since there is a lot you don't know of what goes on.

 

Well that part I must say that it IS your fault not keeping up with the team. Situation awareness is really important to a CV player. You can always learn where the blob is going and change course, you did not. You did not find out until it is too late.

Yes it might be best if everyone does the right thing, like protecting you. But when they don't, you still can do something to make things similarly fine. Why not do your part better before complaining others?

 

And, to me, the IJN CV has the most influence on the result of game among all ship classes. If it is not you to carry, who else?

[Savage_Bunny]

i am never surprised when an atago torps a team mate while heading straight into the entire enemy team.

 

Ah don't mention that.  I had a match 3 days ago with 4 Atago on my team and they all went to the same side....  and by the same side I mean hiding behind my New Orleans.  Ah,  I had torpedoes in front of me and behind me at the same time.  That was the most nerve racking battle I have been in.  I was watching my own team more than the enemy.

[MikeLapTrap]

 

I'm going to be fair with you. I've had the Taiho one day and am running a virtually stock set up, outside the one 3 fighter flight control mod.  

 

I appreciate your feedback because I know you're a strong player, but what you've said is not that relevant.   How can any CV carry a match when their team 1/2 dead before the second wave of planes is in the air.  I would add in this example, by the time I had the third wave in the air, I was surrounded by 4 DDs. 

 

I am always willing to learn.  In the game I face off against YOU today, you did not see the chat on our side of the game.  Both the Midway and myself went to the right of the map, and said we were going to do so.  Things got hairy, you sent planes in, we sent planes at you, you sent planes back at us, and when I looked at the map after all that plane clicking, the entire team had left us alone.  The Midway was blue lining it at the back, and I turned around to try to get back to the fleet.  Asked the team in chat to hustle a CA over to escort me as I knew you'd be coming in for another wave.  The response I got was, "Screw you CV." or something to that effect. 

 

So again, telling ME I need to carry an entire team is somewhat ignorant, since there is a lot you don't know of what goes on.

 

kill the DD first. 4 DD should only take 2 waves and thats 1/3 of the enemy team dead for you. ya some ppl die fast high tiers, its not forgiving up there for giving a broadside once

[Wo_9]

also most players there know each other which obviously isn't a bad thing. 

 

its quite nice playing with people you know

[Rabbican]

Atago and atlanta allow for very new players to play high tier MM in very fragile ships. The higher tiers also have a suprising number of tier X and 9 players that will run at the first sign of damage or danger to the blue line I the corner of the map to save their precious repair bill.

 

General advice for carrier play make sure you can kill a DD with a single torpedo squadron takes lots of practice and min range drop and good angle. Stay within 5-10 KM of friendly fleet so they can support you and you can get minimum travel distance on your planes. Yeah for the Shokaku the strike setup is the only one worth playing and the three fighter setup on the Taiho is the best but most difficult to play (lots of micro). Make sure to choose the target that will have the most impact, try to steer enemies into friendly torpedoes force BB's to turn and expose broadside etc. Carriers are hard to play at he moment just for the sheer amount of cruisers.

[Hjamnr]

As Rabbican started off his post with:  You are seeing this because WG, in their infinite wisdom, allows people who have never played a single match, to buy t7 and t8 premium ships.

[Velled]

Alright I need to ask all of you who have ground your way up into tier 8+ how you find the "upper level" of game play is. 

 

Recently I have ground through the Shokaku and now the Taiho, and I'm finding the upper tier games to be awfully full of really bad play.   I am rarely in a game where I felt it was a strong even matchup, and usually, I'm on the wrong end of a terrible, terrible roflstomp.    As an example, today while playing the Taiho, half my team was dead before I could relaunch my second wave of attack planes, and there was no enemy CV on the other team.

 

So before we discuss that "I should carry harder", please note that my CV stats are reasonable, (without looking at the win/rate) I do damage or I shoot down planes.   I just had a game where I shot down 59 Planes, did 100K damage, reset the cap 5 times, and lost, to a team who had a TK'er at the start.   Its tough to carry when your team is dead before you can get another wave of planes out.  I will admit there are always better players out there, but I don't feel I'm an awful player and contributing to the epic failsauce losses.

 

I don't get the disconnect.  I expected that when I ground to higher tiers the level of play would be better. Better formations, better group tactics, higher HP pools ships alive longer.  All I see is players spreading out, racing out to their deaths, and generally playing stupid. 

 

Is this a "converted XP" to get there from my Noobtago syndrome? Or is it something else? 

 

What is everyone's experience here?

 

Welcome to pubbies.