The Iowa's Superstructure HP is Super-Bugged (10% of what it should be), with Video Evidence

[Compassghost]

So I promised I would check this out, and in fact, there is something horribly wrong with the Iowa that up until now has only made the rounds in text, as opposed to something tangible and explainable beyond "The superstructure for the Iowa is bugged." I had known this to be fact, but I had no idea the Iowa's superstructure was this bugged. This is a critical bug with no workaround, and provides the Iowa significantly higher survivability than any other ship in the game against smaller ship classes that rely on HE to do consistent damage.

 

Let's start off with some terminology describing what I'm testing. Superstructure has its own HP, which after it receives enough damage, no longer receives damage. Each ship has this, but it is only really noticeable on battleships, for example the Myogi and the Iowa are the biggest offenders. You will hit the ship and stop doing damage all of a sudden with HE. The only remedy is to set the ship on fire, or switch to AP rounds. Superstructure that no longer takes damage is saturated.

 

 

My test ship for today is the Atlanta, as it gives the finest granularity of HE damage, and I can set my mouse to fire at a constant rate to narrow down exactly when the superstructure is saturated. I do not have Pyromaniac, but do have the reload skill. The stat we are using to measure is # of hits, so that shouldn't matter as much.

 

We'll start off with the control subject, a Montana.

 

 

Saturated at 247 hits, 1443 HP remaining.
30% fire damage from a single fire = 67410 remaining HP for superstructure fire.

Damage fully saturated at 1443 HP remaining. 67410 - 1443 = 66,000 HP for Montana Superstructure before it no longer takes damage.

66K/294 damage per shell = 225 hits. Hit differences may be accounted for by AA emplacements absorbing damage.

 

Fire, as always, bypasses the HP system.

 

Then we have the Iowa. Unfortunately, I have no friends, so I grabbed a stock bot and used this one.

 

 

Saturated at 23 hits.

Damage fully saturated at 62400 HP remaining. 68100 - 62400 = 5,700 HP for Iowa Superstructure before it no longer takes damage.

5.7K/294 damage per shell = 20 hits. Hit differences may be accounted for by AA emplacements absorbing damage.

 

I keep trying to do HE damage to the Iowa but am unable to find a location that actually generates damage. I have to switch to AP in order to actually kill it. The superstructure HP for the Iowa is only 8% of the Montana.

 

What does this mean?

 

It means someone probably meant to set the superstructure for Iowa at 57,000 but missed a zero and set it at 5,700 instead.

[MrMooFlarby01]

Interesting. Maybe this is part of the reason I enjoyed the Iowa so much.

[salival007]

Excellent test mate, thanks for following this up with more emphatic evidence. While I could instantly tell that there were inconsistencies, its amazing anyone who tested these ships before release could miss such a thing.

Maybe the quality control is too battle orientated and not enough in static environments, as people assume nothing is wrong with all the RNG.

 

On another note you should apply for a supertester position if you have the time, as you're clearly willing to test parts of the game others are not.

 

 

[Nato101]

Good work man. +1

 

They really need to double-check their figures before releasing these beasts into the wild!

[BnaditCorps]

good job

[sherman255]

Thanks for posting this video, I believe that WG staff is probably reading this post as we now read 

 

[Tank3rDude]

Totally agree with everything posted above. You put time and effort gaining positive proof and provide evidence of the bug and a real answer as to why it probably is. Great work, glad we have people like you in this community.

[Grisbane]

Thanks for posting this video, I believe that WG staff is probably reading this post as we now read 

 

this isn't the RU forums..  expect it to be ignored

[Nato101]

 

this isn't the RU forums..  expect it to be ignored

 

Yeah, too right.

 

This needs to go in the bug forum, a copy needs to be sent to support, and a forum mod needs to be made aware.

[salival007]

Could you also test Yamato, as I can't help but wonder how much the % of HP in the superstructure varies from ship to ship. For example Montana being around the 67% mark, and the Iowa around the 84% if 57K is the intended. With hull upgrade more around the 73%. These obviously are not exact, I didn't look up what the actual HP numbers were the on ships.

 

Either way the HP before being saturated looks wonky, as how does a superstructure constitute 65% of a massive ship. At a guess, the values should be much lower, I'd estimate 35%, but for whatever reasons, mainly balance i'd assume, you can take 2/3 of ships health just spamming at an unprotected part of the ship.

[Axxendal]

 

Either way the HP before being saturated looks wonky, as how does a superstructure constitute 65% of a massive ship. 

 

If you performed a similar test on, say, the bow of the Kongo or something, you might find it has 65% of the ship's HP too. Total up all the HP-carrying sections and you'd probably end up with 300% of the ship's actual combat HP.

[salival007]

 

If you performed a similar test on, say, the bow of the Kongo or something, you might find it has 65% of the ship's HP too. Total up all the HP-carrying sections and you'd probably end up with 300% of the ship's actual combat HP.

 

That's a really good point, and it makes more sense for the hull to have more available to it as it is what keeps the ship afloat, and as well as vital components inside.

 

For example, barely anyone has noticed the Iowa being so strong and complained about it, and that is currently using around an 8% damage model superstructure (by design or bug). In fact there were posts saying how easy it is to sink an unskilled player.

 

Just saying maybe we should look at why the superstructure allows such high damage models on the Montana and all other ships mind you, as how it is currently, and i'm exaggerating for effect, the Montana is a DD in protection for 65% of its HP.

[Compassghost]

Tested on Yamato and Izumo. Both took at least 50% damage. They burned out before test completion since I got 2 fires, as expected.

[UrPeaceKeeper]

So I promised I would check this out, and in fact, there is something horribly wrong with the Iowa that up until now has only made the rounds in text, as opposed to something tangible and explainable beyond "The superstructure for the Iowa is bugged." I had known this to be fact, but I had no idea the Iowa's superstructure was this bugged. This is a critical bug with no workaround, and provides the Iowa significantly higher survivability than any other ship in the game against smaller ship classes that rely on HE to do consistent damage.

 

Let's start off with some terminology describing what I'm testing. Superstructure has its own HP, which after it receives enough damage, no longer receives damage. Each ship has this, but it is only really noticeable on battleships, for example the Myogi and the Iowa are the biggest offenders. You will hit the ship and stop doing damage all of a sudden with HE. The only remedy is to set the ship on fire, or switch to AP rounds. Superstructure that no longer takes damage is saturated.

 

 

My test ship for today is the Atlanta, as it gives the finest granularity of HE damage, and I can set my mouse to fire at a constant rate to narrow down exactly when the superstructure is saturated. I do not have Pyromaniac, but do have the reload skill. The stat we are using to measure is # of hits, so that shouldn't matter as much.

 

We'll start off with the control subject, a Montana.

 

 

Saturated at 247 hits, 1443 HP remaining.
30% fire damage from a single fire = 67410 remaining HP for superstructure fire.

Damage fully saturated at 1443 HP remaining. 67410 - 1443 = 66,000 HP for Montana Superstructure before it no longer takes damage.

66K/294 damage per shell = 225 hits. Hit differences may be accounted for by AA emplacements absorbing damage.

 

Fire, as always, bypasses the HP system.

 

Then we have the Iowa. Unfortunately, I have no friends, so I grabbed a stock bot and used this one.

 

 

Saturated at 23 hits.

Damage fully saturated at 62400 HP remaining. 68100 - 62400 = 5,700 HP for Iowa Superstructure before it no longer takes damage.

5.7K/294 damage per shell = 20 hits. Hit differences may be accounted for by AA emplacements absorbing damage.

 

I keep trying to do HE damage to the Iowa but am unable to find a location that actually generates damage. I have to switch to AP in order to actually kill it. The superstructure HP for the Iowa is only 8% of the Montana.

 

What does this mean?

 

It means someone probably meant to set the superstructure for Iowa at 57,000 but missed a zero and set it at 5,700 instead.

 

Working as intended... they need to fix the Monty's armor!  

[Final_Spark]

Tested on Yamato and Izumo. Both took at least 50% damage. They burned out before test completion since I got 2 fires, as expected.

 

AP that does standard penetration hits are effected the same way as HE without the risk of causing fires. Have you tried finding a low enough caliber/pen gun that can standard pen high tier BB superstructures?

 

Also, do the other locations have similar issues?

[Hillslam]

Good work Compass.

 

Although I"m currently piloting the Iowa - just got back into her this weekend - I'd prefer a fair fight with non-bugged ships.

 

 

[Compassghost]

 

AP that does standard penetration hits are effected the same way as HE without the risk of causing fires. Have you tried finding a low enough caliber/pen gun that can standard pen high tier BB superstructures?

 

Also, do the other locations have similar issues?

 

If 5" doesn't work, I'd basically have to back away. I didn't test the other locations, but I find that if the superstructure doesn't work, on something like the Iowa, you're better off just firing AP rather than searching for something to HE :/

[amade]

 

If 5" doesn't work, I'd basically have to back away. I didn't test the other locations, but I find that if the superstructure doesn't work, on something like the Iowa, you're better off just firing AP rather than searching for something to HE :/

 

You can shoot certain parts of the bow/stern with 5" AP without overpenetrating. You'll find that like the superstructure it takes x0.165 damage instead of x0.33 damage.

[Compassghost]

I need a manual for all of this @_@. All I have is hearsay and observations.

[amade]

I need a manual for all of this @_@. All I have is hearsay and observations.

 

Nah, I've already tested and confirmed this bug waaaaay back in CBT. That's why I included a note about it in my damage guide.

 

If you shoot a 5" AP (2100 damage) shell into any part of the ship without overpenetrating it should deal x0.33 damage (693 damage). But this is not the case with the Iowa's stern and bow as it takes x0.165 (347) damage instead. Technically, it should also deal 693 damage to the superstructure but it's extremely difficult to not overpen the superstructure with AP. But if you somehow managed to pull it off, you'll find it deals x0.165 (347) damage instead of x0.33 (693).

[Rotary_Rocket]

Iowa is fine, Montana is broken.

[TacticalOni]

 By the time I get the Iowa again it'll be fixed, don't worry ;)

[KSN]

This was not a well conducted test.  While the shots on the Montana were consistently placed in a single location on the superstructure, the test shots against the Iowa were varied. In fact a great many shots were placed on the Turret housing, which is much more heavily armored than the rest of the superstructure.

 

While my criticism is not to say that there is nothing wrong with the Iowa, if your going to attempt a test then you should conduct it identically.

 

Lastly, this test was performed on an Alpha Test server (?) and not on a Live OBT server (in Co-Op, or PVP), and may not represent the current iteration of Iowa that is being played. I'm honestly suspicious that that 'stronk' Iowa on the Alpha test server is not the same iteration as the one I play on a daily basis.

 

WarGaming should really reply to a thread like this, and let us know if there is indeed an issue, or if what is being perceived as a bug is an offset for the Iowa's massive and easily penetrated Citadel areas?

 

 

[Business6]

Sigh, I can't get the damn ships to not move and fire in training grounds.

[ThatsAPaladin]

Give this man a nice thing! 

Seriously; this kind of thing should warrant a bonus code. Perhaps nothing too big, but nobody would turn down a nice credit bounty for finding a substantial error, especially if there's proof.

 

You should find somebody with a press account to help for these, if you can. ...A press account is gets most or all ships, right? Or am I thinking of something else?