Would Class-Specific Bonus Stats Encourage Team Play?

[Mesrith]

Well, not class-specific, but additional game-play stats that fit the theme of each ship type and reward players for performing that role in some capacity.  The stats could be universal to some degree, but certain ships would receive a larger bonus.

 

Spotting Damage - Destroyers/Carriers

 

 

A carry-over from World of Tanks, where you received points for how much damage was done by other players to the tanks that you were currently spotted.  This was a staple of light tanks, and scouting was an important part of the game and made the difference between a good scout on your team vs. one that thought his sole job was to suicide-rush artillery at the start of the match.

 

Whatever "points" you'd get for this would be earned at a 1x rate for destroyers, perhaps a 0.75 rate for carriers,  and a 0.25 rate for cruisers and battleships.  The speed boost and smoke screen work well for destroyers on this.  Good carrier players would finally be rewarded for providing vision for their team.

 

 

 

Aircraft Kills - Cruisers/Carriers

 

 

This one has been requested for a long time.  I think it makes sense to again reward cruisers at a 1x rate, carriers at a 0.75 rate, and a 0.25 rate for battleships and destroyers.  This meshes well with cruisers' AAA boost ability and their fighter plane.  Carriers would be rewarded for denying vision to enemy planes and preventing damage from enemy aircraft.

 

 

 

Damage Above Full - Battleships

 

 

Any damage taken past full health of a battleship would begin accumulating points as well.  For example, if you take 65,000 points of damage in your fully-upgraded Nagato, you're rewarded for any damage past that point.  This obviously requires you to be near the action instead of hiding 22km in the back while your cruisers get blasted, and encourages smart use of the repair party ability.  Hit points are a resource, and if your team is dying while you're full health in the back, you're using them wrong.  Bouncing shells with armor could possibly be considered as well.  This might also take some of the sting out of high-tier battleship repair costs.  If you get detonated early you're just out of luck, but if you took a lot of damage over the course of the match and stayed alive, the bonus compensates you in some way.

 

Battleships would earn at a 1.0x rate, with higher tier cruisers that get repair party earning at a 0.25x rate.

 

 

 

So a summary would break down like this:

Destroyers

• 1x spotting bonus
• 0.25x AA bonus

 

Cruisers

• 1x AA bonus
• 0.25x spotting bonus
• 0.25x "damage taken over full" bonus

 

Battleships

• 1x "damage taken over full" bonus
• 0.25x spotting bonus
• 0.25x AA bonus

 

Carriers

• 0.75x AA bonus
• 0.75x spotting bonus

 

The basic theme is that each class receives some sort of XP and credit gains for performing a job that it already has the in-game tools to do, while still receiving some bonus for things like spotting enemies or shooting down planes even if that's not their main bonus.  Numbers and percentages could be made to fit, but I like the basic idea.  Damage, cap points, defense points, an kills would all be primary factors in XP and credits as they are now, but with some room made for these other stats to reward players without changing the economy much (although a "faster" economy wouldn't be unwelcome).

[USS_OWENS_DD_536]

I would like to see some Kill-Assist for when a player does all the damage and gets nothing for it when someone else sits by and fires at an almost dead target. It's getting old to go one on one with another ship and then, some player decides to take it out while you reload. It's not hard to tell when you're shooting at a ship and no-one else is. You can see the damage you do and then suddenly right when your fire, it's destroyed by someone that just wants an easy kill.

 

I don't care what anyone has to say differently but, it does happen.

[Mesrith]

I would like to see some Kill-Assist for when a player does all the damage and gets nothing for it when someone else sits by and fires at an almost dead target.

 

You already do.  Aside from any sunken ship moving you closer to winning the game, damage counts for much more than kills.  If you did 85% of a ship's HP and someone else lands the killing salvo, you still get considerably more for your contribution on that target.

[Brofisticus]

I suspect any additional rewards for accomplishing specific feats (like WoT) would be greatly beneficial and probably already intended to be put into the game. Trouble is, it will probably be about a year til any of that hits. We are still pretty damn early in the development cycle of the game. Playing now is kinda like... seeing all the non-plot bits of a movie before the whole thing. Fun will still be had but not as much as the finished product. 

[BlazerSparta]

Wouldn't work for battleships. 

 

Two problems: 

 

1: As long as there are repair fees, the bonus you get would have to be enough to balance the fact that taking more damage than your base exp means taking almost the maximum repair fee, which at t8 means losing close to 112k in repair fees for a battleship, which increases as your tier goes up. 

 

2: If you're the one battleship leading the push and getting focused, it's very possible you get taken out after you've only had time to pop one repair. You don't get the full bonus, but you're still dead.

 

A more effective approach would be tanking exp:

 

If your ally deals damage to an enemy ship damaging you, then you get credit for a portion of the damage done.

 

Repair fees would still have to be toned back so whatever extra experience it gives you wouldn't be immediately taken away by repair fees.

 

By the way, I'm talking about credits because that's what limits players. People like to brag about exp, and WG likes to throw around exp bonus events, but the true limiting factor to progression is credits. At high tiers, you can't grind without credits, thanks to repair fees, and you can't make your ships competitive without credits,.

[Lert]

It can be made a lot simpler:

 

- Give destroyers a small but ongoing XP-over-time bonus for time spent alive within 10 km of an enemy ship

- Give cruisers an XP and credit bonus for strike airplanes (TB's and DB's) shot down within 5 km of a friendly ship

- Give battleships a small XP and credits multiplier for damage done within 1 minute of damage received

- Give carriers an XP and credit bonus for every sortie after a re-arm

 

This should at least help encourage people to be more where they need to be.

 

<Edit> I do also really like the above poster's idea of battleships getting a small bonus when their team does damage to a target they took damage from.

[Mesrith]

issm, on 11 August 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

Wouldn't work for battleships. 

 

Two problems: 

 

1: As long as there are repair fees, the bonus you get would have to be enough to balance the fact that taking more damage than your base exp means taking almost the maximum repair fee, which at t8 means losing close to 112k in repair fees for a battleship, which increases as your tier goes up. 

 

That's more of an issue with high-tier repair costs than it is a problem with the core idea that battleships should be encouraged to use their high HP pool, armor, and repair party ability.

 

I've purchased my Izumo but refuse to play it stock.  Once I have the credits to upgrade the hull I suppose I'll see how bad the repair costs are, as I know you've had a hard time with them.

 

2: If you're the one battleship leading the push and getting focused, it's very possible you get taken out after you've only had time to pop one repair. You don't get the full bonus, but you're still dead.

 

That's sort of the point.  A battleship that dies too early is a big loss to the team.  No bonus for you!  There's a fine line between being close enough to take some hits, and being so close that you can't angle away in time to heal back up while staying in the fight.

[iHaveNoIntelligence]

It's definitely a nice idea and as you mentioned cruiser xp buff for AA will encourage cruisers a lot to escort BBs and CVs.

I always felt a bit sorry for Cruisers who hang out with me to escort cuz they won't get much xp for that game.

 

 

 

That's more of an issue with high-tier repair costs than it is a problem with the core idea that battleships should be encouraged to use their high HP pool, armor, and repair party ability.

 

I've purchased my Izumo but refuse to play it stock.  Once I have the credits to upgrade the hull I suppose I'll see how bad the repair costs are, as I know you've had a hard time with them.

 

2: If you're the one battleship leading the push and getting focused, it's very possible you get taken out after you've only had time to pop one repair. You don't get the full bonus, but you're still dead.

 

That's sort of the point.  A battleship that dies too early is a big loss to the team.  No bonus for you!  There's a fine line between being close enough to take some hits, and being so close that you can't angle away in time to heal back up while staying in the fight.

 

Even CV who doesn't die that often has problem with credits to buy next ship from t7

researched shoukaku today lack around 5m credits to purchase it.

 

And I used Zulu and what so ever for my grind don't drive other ships, still lack XD

[OhnoesFroz]

Good ideas, but they don't need to be class-specific.

 

Make downing 12 enemy planes the same (in terms of credit/exp gain) as damaging an enemy carrier for 100% of its health and sinking it.

 

Then do that uh spotting damage thing in the OP, but with equal bonuses for all classes, provided the enemy ship being damaged is being spotted by only one source. The reason being to encourage scouts to fan out and discover enemy ships that wouldn't be spotted by the slower ships normally.

[Mesrith]

Good ideas, but they don't need to be class-specific.

 

I understand your point, but I'd be careful not to over-reward certain ships that can do it all.  One argument would be that a dead plane is dead and a spotted ship is spotted, does it matter which ship did it?  My counter to that is that if I do 120k damage in my North Carolina, shoot down 35 planes, am 0.5k in front of my teammates in the initial engagement, and win the game with 20k HP left, that's potentially a massive game.  Right now most ships have an arguably equal XP ceiling, but the above scenario gives a few ships a much higher XP ceiling than others.

 

However, that might be rare enough that it wouldn't be a real issue, in which case I'd probably agree with you.

[USS_OWENS_DD_536]

 

You already do.  Aside from any sunken ship moving you closer to winning the game, damage counts for much more than kills.  If you did 85% of a ship's HP and someone else lands the killing salvo, you still get considerably more for your contribution on that target.

 

I understand what you're saying but, I don't look at it that way, sorry. When capping a base with other players, you get assist points for it but, they're so miniscule that, I could care less about getting them. Other games have a Kill-Assist bonus, just like WG's, WoWPs does. There's no reason that myself or, anyone else can't get them when them or, me, does all the work making it easier for another to destroy it, I look at it this way because, he didn't do it alone.

 

I'd like to add this too. There's been times in game that, a player is having a hard time with another player so, if I'm within firing range and my flank is covered, I fire a few damaging shots his way, to assist him with that player. If I see the damage is good and I feel he can finish it himself, I go back to supporting the rest f my team. That's how I am. I want to help keep my team alive. However, I don't get that kind of assistance until, it's time for the kill shot.

[OhnoesFroz]

 

I understand your point, but I'd be careful not to over-reward certain ships that can do it all.  One argument would be that a dead plane is dead and a spotted ship is spotted, does it matter which ship did it?  My counter to that is that if I do 120k damage in my North Carolina, shoot down 35 planes, am 0.5k in front of my teammates in the initial engagement, and win the game with 20k HP left, that's potentially a massive game.  Right now most ships have an arguably equal XP ceiling, but the above scenario gives a few ships a much higher XP ceiling than others.

 

However, that might be rare enough that it wouldn't be a real issue, in which case I'd probably agree with you.

 

The exp ceiling thing is a good point, but it just results in what we have now, I think. Wouldn't it just discourage one class from playing with a team-oriented mindset if that one class got less rewards for playing as a team?

[Arzoo]

For BBs, I recommend not rewards for damage taken but instead for damage healed. This encourages maximizing the value of the heal. For CVs, enemy planes shot down via fighters should be rewarded much more than AA kills. This encourages more fighter packages and avoids too much emphasis on automated defenses (I've gotten 30+ kills in Bogue with bomber package). Destroyers I think need actual buffs in general before we talk about rewards for them, but in particular they need stronger AA, both to give them an additional use beyond stalking BBs and to make leaving planes over them unattractive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rabbican]

@OP I would like to see everything you suggested implemented. Not only does it reward good team play, it will give people the incentive to actually play the ship for their intended role. Very well written and thought out post.

[Mesrith]

For BBs, I recommend not rewards for damage taken but instead for damage healed. 

 

I suppose that's what my suggestion basically is anyway, yours just kicks in earlier in the game.  Either works for me.

[Numbah18]

I do like these Ideas my only concern is with how you reward AA. AA guns don't require to much thought or skill to use all you have to do is be close by or control click and the AI does the rest for you. Maybe change it to shooting down planes that are near allied ships instead that way you are being rewarded for screening your allies not chasing after every plane you see.

[QuicksilverJPR]

I would like to see some Kill-Assist for when a player does all the damage and gets nothing for it when someone else sits by and fires at an almost dead target. It's getting old to go one on one with another ship and then, some player decides to take it out while you reload. It's not hard to tell when you're shooting at a ship and no-one else is. You can see the damage you do and then suddenly right when your fire, it's destroyed by someone that just wants an easy kill.

 

I don't care what anyone has to say differently but, it does happen.

 

Maybe that happens at the low tiers, but really, who cares so long as the opfor comes off the map?  

 

I focus fire on the same ships my other teammates are shooting at.  Sometimes I get the kill.  Sometimes they get the kill.  So long as they die and we don't, what do I care????

 

 

Also, try playing tiers above 3 more often.  Maybe the player base down there that is "kill stealing"....

[Grizley]

- Give cruisers an XP and credit bonus for strike airplanes (TB's and DB's) shot down within 5 km of a friendly ship

- Give carriers an XP and credit bonus for every sortie after a re-arm

 

For CV I hope you mean their fighters, not their bombers.  Rewarding shooting down bombers would be a very very good thing.  Rewarding kamakazi strike specs even more would be awful.

 

For cruisers I don't think there should be any requirement that the bombers or the CA be near a friendly ship.  For one thing an AA specced USN CA has a 7.5km engagement range.  If the CA is 2km nearer the bombers than the friendly then they're 9.5km from the friendly ship when they start taking losses.

 

I get that you're trying to encourage cruisers to stick near the other ships, but that's not always the best way to do it and 5km is far far too close in any case.  Just shooting down bombers at all is worth a bonus, or should be.  The most reliable way of getting that bonus high is sitting next to a CV at the start of the match, but later on closing range on the enemy CV so that aircraft come under fire the moment their launched protects ALL friendly ships not only the ones close to the CA.

[Doc_Skinner]

 

I understand what you're saying but, I don't look at it that way, sorry. When capping a base with other players, you get assist points for it but, they're so miniscule that, I could care less about getting them. Other games have a Kill-Assist bonus, just like WG's, WoWPs does.

 

However, I don't get that kind of assistance until, it's time for the kill shot. 

 

Although I am loathe to continue this off topic discussion, I have to point out that the bonus for killing an enemy is, like capping, and miniscule amount. I just had a terrific game in a Minekaze where I got 9 torpedo hits but 0 kills. Every one of those enemy ships were finished off by my allies, and I was fine with it. I was top experience of the team, because I did WAY more damage than anyone else. Kills don't matter for anything except the Daily Missions and bragging rights.

[Dah_Bears268]

Well, not class-specific, but additional game-play stats that fit the theme of each ship type and reward players for performing that role in some capacity.  The stats could be universal to some degree, but certain ships would receive a larger bonus.

 

Spotting Damage - Destroyers/Carriers

 

 

A carry-over from World of Tanks, where you received points for how much damage was done by other players to the tanks that you were currently spotted.  This was a staple of light tanks, and scouting was an important part of the game and made the difference between a good scout on your team vs. one that thought his sole job was to suicide-rush artillery at the start of the match.

 

Whatever "points" you'd get for this would be earned at a 1x rate for destroyers, perhaps a 0.75 rate for carriers,  and a 0.25 rate for cruisers and battleships.  The speed boost and smoke screen work well for destroyers on this.  Good carrier players would finally be rewarded for providing vision for their team.

 

 

 

Aircraft Kills - Cruisers/Carriers

 

 

This one has been requested for a long time.  I think it makes sense to again reward cruisers at a 1x rate, carriers at a 0.75 rate, and a 0.25 rate for battleships and destroyers.  This meshes well with cruisers' AAA boost ability and their fighter plane.  Carriers would be rewarded for denying vision to enemy planes and preventing damage from enemy aircraft.

 

 

 

Damage Above Full - Battleships

 

 

Any damage taken past full health of a battleship would begin accumulating points as well.  For example, if you take 65,000 points of damage in your fully-upgraded Nagato, you're rewarded for any damage past that point.  This obviously requires you to be near the action instead of hiding 22km in the back while your cruisers get blasted, and encourages smart use of the repair party ability.  Hit points are a resource, and if your team is dying while you're full health in the back, you're using them wrong.  Bouncing shells with armor could possibly be considered as well.  This might also take some of the sting out of high-tier battleship repair costs.  If you get detonated early you're just out of luck, but if you took a lot of damage over the course of the match and stayed alive, the bonus compensates you in some way.

 

Battleships would earn at a 1.0x rate, with higher tier cruisers that get repair party earning at a 0.25x rate.

 

 

 

So a summary would break down like this:

Destroyers

• 1x spotting bonus
• 0.25x AA bonus

 

Cruisers

• 1x AA bonus
• 0.25x spotting bonus
• 0.25x "damage taken over full" bonus

 

Battleships

• 1x "damage taken over full" bonus
• 0.25x spotting bonus
• 0.25x AA bonus

 

Carriers

• 0.75x AA bonus
• 0.75x spotting bonus

 

The basic theme is that each class receives some sort of XP and credit gains for performing a job that it already has the in-game tools to do, while still receiving some bonus for things like spotting enemies or shooting down planes even if that's not their main bonus.  Numbers and percentages could be made to fit, but I like the basic idea.  Damage, cap points, defense points, an kills would all be primary factors in XP and credits as they are now, but with some room made for these other stats to reward players without changing the economy much (although a "faster" economy wouldn't be unwelcome).

 

XP bonus I could care less(there is a 50% first win XP bonus and a 50% XP flag), but significant credit bonuses(+20-30%) would definitely be attractive. 

[mouth1313]

Perhaps extra credits/XP should only be rewarded for shooting down bombers or better yet, bombers that haven't dropped their payload? Killing fighters and empty bombers, while good, has a bigger opportunity for aranged XP farming.

[Lert]

 

For CV I hope you mean their fighters, not their bombers.  Rewarding shooting down bombers would be a very very good thing.  Rewarding kamakazi strike specs even more would be awful.

 

No, I mean strike planes expending their bomb / torpedo loads, flying back, landing, re-arming and sortieing again. This encourages a CV player to be active instead of hiding at the very back of the map all the time where they have a very low sortie rate because their planes take so long to get anywhere.

 

In order not to abuse this additional XP it could be a small modifier to the XP they get from doing the actual damage with their planes, or a qualifier that the torps / bomb drop has to happen within an X distance from an enemy player.

[Mesrith]

 

No, I mean strike planes expending their bomb / torpedo loads, flying back, landing, re-arming and sortieing again. This encourages a CV player to be active instead of hiding at the very back of the map all the time where they have a very low sortie rate because their planes take so long to get anywhere.

 

That's already rewarded in real terms though.  Shorter flight paths = more sorties = more damage done, and potentially more planes shot down.  Scoring by sorties would also discourage planes from lingering over an area for spotting purposes, which I think should be rewarded.  I love carrier players that hover over a destroyer and harass them, and hate it when it's done to mine.

[TheGhostCat]

Spotting damage really should be a thing! 

[Sotaudi]

I would like to see some Kill-Assist for when a player does all the damage and gets nothing for it when someone else sits by and fires at an almost dead target. It's getting old to go one on one with another ship and then, some player decides to take it out while you reload. It's not hard to tell when you're shooting at a ship and no-one else is. You can see the damage you do and then suddenly right when your fire, it's destroyed by someone that just wants an easy kill.

 

I don't care what anyone has to say differently but, it does happen.

 

With all due respect, what I would like to see is the "kills" statistic removed from this and every other team-based PvP and PvE game.  It is an absolutely meaningless statistic in a team game because it suggests that you 1-v-1'ed that many players/mobs/[insert enemy type here] when, in reality, all it really means is that you got the last hit on a given target taking its last hit point.  However, people treat it like it actually means something for the e-peen factor.

 

 

This thinking also promotes the kind of thinking you allude to above, the dreaded "kill stealing" notion.  That is, that you shooting at a target somehow magically grants you rights to the target even when there is not one single mechanic in the game that supports that idea and even when it goes against the very nature of a team based game.  In a team based game, every target on the battle field belongs to every player on the team.  Every enemy on the enemy team is a threat to every player on your team.  As such, it is also every player's responsibility to remove every gun on the battlefield as quickly as possible in order to ensure a win.  If you have any other priority, then you have no business being in the game.  Ironically, since the target never belongs to any individual player but, in reality, to the entire team, it is the player claiming "kill stealing" that is actually trying to steal.

 

 

In other words, the sooner people with who think this way get a handle on the fact that no target, no matter how much damage you have done to it, belongs to you, the sooner they can get over this patently false notion that someone took your kill.  Sadly, that will never happen, so I would much rather see them just eliminate the statistic since it is absolutely meaningless.