Secondaries

[LuckyStarFan]

Hello, I would like to talk about secondary batteries.  Back in CBT these varied in power, especially if you spent the time training your captain in skills which buffed them and especially if you equipped the Secondary Battery Modification Mod 2.  Something happened between here and there and secondaries are now what I would call effectively worthless and not worth the effort of upgrading or closing to range in order to get into the fight.

 

Here we have the results of a single game in Nagato.  The captain has both Basic and Advanced Firing Training, and the ship has Secondary Battery Modification 2 installed.

 

 

 

Some basic information, I only closed to secondary range against a single ship, a Fuso.  I was in secondary range long enough to fire my main batteries four times at him, that is over two minutes.  With every secondary battery modification and skill, my ship fired 278 secondary shells, of which 110 connected.  Those 110 hits did 11260 damage.  The fires set by my secondaries did 11418.  I find this in particular illustrates just how poor secondaries are.  The target was set on fire once, put it out, and then set on double fire.  This combined fire damage out damaged two minutes of secondary battery fire. 

 

Some may say secondaries were too powerful during CBT, I would argue much of this opinion is due to the fact that the AP shells fired by IJN 140mm secondaries demolished destroyers because they still had citadels.  I would also argue secondaries were much, much more accurate during CBT.  Between here and there secondaries have clearly taken a huge hit in terms of accuracy, even fully specialized only 40% of shells hit the target and of those hits they average to only 100 damage per shell.  A single main battery shell that penetrates a non-critical portion of a ship can do forty-five times that, easily.

 

 

Secondaries need a buff, I would suggest boosting the accuracy significantly to start with.  As it stands I see no reason to try and close to 7km with ships like Nagato, there is no real benefit.  Many people question why battleships play stand off so much, obviously some of this is learning curve, being unaware of how best to play the ship, but I think a lot stems from the simple fact that there is no benefit to closing past ~12km for battleships.  Buff secondaries so BB have a reason to get into the fight please.

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

actually

that 2ndary dmg is pretty spot on with how the Atlanta's works.

 

it of coarse depends what u shooting.  Atlanta works great against cruisers and DDs

 

but against a BB.  Atlanta can hit well over 250+ times and not even break 12k dmg.

 

so no. 2ndaries are fine as is.  they not ment to do much dmg, just a bit of "add-on dmg" which it did fine here.

 

and if BBs do get a 2ndary buff.  well you need to buff all crusiers, DDs, and the atlanta to compensate.

 

 

 

-also keep in mind it seems you 2ndaries lit 3 fires for 11k dmg.  so add that dmg to them. as well as any crits the AP rounds of the 2ndaries did(they shoot AP and HE)

[LuckyStarFan]

actually

that 2ndary dmg is pretty spot on with how the Atlanta's works.

 

it of coarse depends what u shooting.  Atlanta works great against cruisers and DDs

 

but against a BB.  Atlanta can hit well over 250+ times and not even break 12k dmg.

 

so no. 2ndaries are fine as is.  they not ment to do much dmg, just a bit of "add-on dmg" which it did fine here.

 

and if BBs do get a 2ndary buff.  well you need to buff all crusiers, DDs, and the atlanta to compensate.

 

 

 

-also keep in mind it seems you 2ndaries lit 3 fires for 11k dmg.  so add that dmg to them. as well as any crits the AP rounds of the 2ndaries did(they shoot AP and HE)

 

Atlanta is a fairly poor choice for comparison.  She already has to close to 11km to fire her primaries, she only has to close to half that and she can then get the benefit of secondary function and get her torpedoes into range.  Nagato can engage from 21km and with secondaries being so poor why should she close?  Atlanta is entirely dual purpose so you don't lose anything by being outside secondary range, Nagato's secondaries do nothing outside of range short range.  Also Atlanta secondaries fire nothing but HE, which is now a very good thing, more chance of fire and damage to all ship types.  With the changes to AP, the 140mm Nagato secondaries are now a downside instead of a boon.

 

I'm not sure how comparing a cruiser's damage against CA and DD is the same as my comparison of a BB to a BB. 

[mouth1313]

 

Atlanta is a fairly poor choice for comparison.  She already has to close to 11km to fire her primaries, she only has to close to half that and she can then get the benefit of secondary function and get her torpedoes into range.  Nagato can engage from 21km and with secondaries being so poor why should she close?  Atlanta is entirely dual purpose so you don't lose anything by being outside secondary range, Nagato's secondaries do nothing outside of range short range.  Also Atlanta secondaries fire nothing but HE, which is now a very good thing, more chance of fire and damage to all ship types.  With the changes to AP, the 140mm Nagato secondaries are now a downside instead of a boon.

 

I'm not sure how comparing a cruiser's damage against CA and DD is the same as my comparison of a BB to a BB. 

I think he meant the damage ratio on the atlanta's main guns (dual 5") to the secondary guns on battleships (a lot of 5" guns). Atlantas are just pyro ships when shooting BBs usually, so your secondaries on your BB should perform similarly. 

[kmanweiss]

You closed to secondary range of 1 ship.  Your secondary weapons did 22k dmg.  That's 15% of your total damage, and they were only in range of 1 ship for the entire match.  That seems pretty powerful actually.

If the secondary weapons were more accurate, or more powerful, it would be impossible to deal with battleships.  The battleship tactic would be to drive directly into the enemy team.  Higher tier battleships have secondary weapon ranges that are incredible.

[mouth1313]

You closed to secondary range of 1 ship.  Your secondary weapons did 22k dmg.  That's 15% of your total damage, and they were only in range of 1 ship for the entire match.  That seems pretty powerful actually.

If the secondary weapons were more accurate, or more powerful, it would be impossible to deal with battleships.  The battleship tactic would be to drive directly into the enemy team.  Higher tier battleships have secondary weapon ranges that are incredible.

Come to think of it, the Fuso only has like 45k hp? 22k is basically half his health. So technically, your secondary guns did just as much damage as your main guns. That sounds amazing. 

 

Edit: Sorry, 57k if he has the UG hull. Still though, that's still 40% in 4 minutes. 

[PelicanHazard]

My secondaries seem fine. Granted, it's no Nagato, but both my Wyoming and New York have nearly killed DDs from secondary fire alone in engagements lasting less than a minute, and as a CV I watched a New Mexico pass within a kilometer of a Fuso with both suffering great damage for it.

[Compassghost]

40% accuracy with secondaries is amazing.

[Francois424]

By all account this is a great game for your secondaries.  10k dmg +10k fire.  You may scoff at the results, but this is the current state of the game.  It makes ships that depends on their secondaries underperform.  Thankfully not many of these ships currently exist in the game.  There are brawler BBs, the most noteworthy being the Mikasa (BaronVonGamez did a video of it on youtube, and I have tried it on a friend's EU account).

 

Fact is, Secondary guns suck in their current iteration (I was not there when they were OP before 3.0/3.1 so these are the only ones I have known).

They only miss a bit more range tho.
 

IMHO, minimum range of them, on any BB of any tier should be 5km unmodded range.

Skills/modules could increase this if available, and the range should creap from the 5km up to maybe 10km at tier 10 (where DD's all have 15+ km torp range anyways)

Keep current accuracy to begin with, and test/balance from there.

 

[mouth1313]

I would also like to see secondary battery range (on battleships) buffed by 25%-50%.

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

By all account this is a great game for your secondaries.  10k dmg +10k fire.  You may scoff at the results, but this is the current state of the game.  It makes ships that depends on their secondaries underperform.  Thankfully not many of these ships currently exist in the game.  There are brawler BBs, the most noteworthy being the Mikasa (BaronVonGamez did a video of it on youtube, and I have tried it on a friend's EU account).

 

Fact is, Secondary guns suck in their current iteration (I was not there when they were OP before 3.0/3.1 so these are the only ones I have known).

They only miss a bit more range tho.

 

IMHO, minimum range of them, on any BB of any tier should be 5km unmodded range.

Skills/modules could increase this if available, and the range should creap from the 5km up to maybe 10km at tier 10 (where DD's all have 15+ km torp range anyways)

Keep current accuracy to begin with, and test/balance from there.

 

 

 

imo all 2ndaries should be 5km unmodded....(i say all because Yubari's useless 120mm gun is 2km.....)

[MikeLapTrap]

you need to see Yammy secondariess.....Pickle laughs when he consistently get 40-50 k with his secondary guns....

[mouth1313]

you need to see Yammy secondariess.....Pickle laughs when he consistently get 40-50 k with his secondary guns....

Yammy has 9k range on secondaries right?

[MikeLapTrap]

10.5 with perk+flag+mod

[Francois424]

10.5 with perk+flag+mod

 

Good lord that is awesome.

WG !  Give us a week-end test server with long range secondaries already...  I so want to try that !

[MikeLapTrap]

didn't help.most ppl. since most ppl stay at max range and refuse to close the distance

[MikeLapTrap]

 

Good lord that is awesome.

WG !  Give us a week-end test server with long range secondaries already...  I so want to try that !

when fully perked the 155 mm fire at ~8 rpm and the 127 mm shoot at 20 rpm....

[Dabba]

I agree. But my reasoning is that DDs seem to have no fear of closing within secondary range. Rightfully so, i can't depend on my secondaries to do anything to the most lightly armored ships in the game. 

[MikeLapTrap]

I've killed a new York 1 vs 1 in a zuiho, he had 11 k left abs was 2 km from me. secondary with no fire xD

[Nptune]

I def agree with the OP for the most part BB's need something more to the Secondaries... A DD closing to with spitting distance and not even getting caught on fire.. You get close to a BB you should be getting the horns.  Epic battles between BB's would be fantastic!

[Francois424]

I def agree with the OP for the most part BB's need something more to the Secondaries... A DD closing to with spitting distance and not even getting caught on fire.. You get close to a BB you should be getting the horns.  Epic battles between BB's would be fantastic!

 

Try a close duel between 2 Mikasa when they get released...  Fire main guns but close up to at least 2.8km.  Epic !

[Dabba]

I've killed a new York 1 vs 1 in a zuiho, he had 11 k left abs was 2 km from me. secondary with no fire xD

I don't know how you pull these stunts off haha.  I haven't played ijn BBs in awhile but the secondaries on my us ships BBs and cruisers are beyond useless when DDs close. You'd think at under 2 or 3 km accuracy would be a lot higher. I understand not hitting much at their max range, but up close?

[MikeLapTrap]

I don't know how you pull these stunts off haha.  I haven't played ijn BBs in awhile but the secondaries on my us ships BBs and cruisers are beyond useless when DDs close. You'd think at under 2 or 3 km accuracy would be a lot higher. I understand not hitting much at their max range, but up close?

IJN have better secondaries. more accurate, more damage, and more durable(still die just not as fast as USN secondaries)

[Dr_Venture]

Nagatos secondaries with their mod are dd killers.

[IronWolfV]

10.5 with perk+flag+mod

 

Hell the tier 9 Baltimore can damn near hit that range with her secondaries. With the mod alone in CBT I think  I got it slightly over 7km range.