The Cleveland is not OP, it's average

[suleiman71]

It is an upgrade from the Omaha in some ways, the AA ability is akin to a nuclear bomb. It has good armor for a light cruiser, a good floatplane, and traversable turrets, all of them, but there's a price for it. It may seem OP to lower tiers, but once you have it, it's different. 

 

-Low calibre guns. These 152s aren't nearly as much of a firehose as people say, and can only penetrate other USN cruisers up to t7 and most Japanese cruisers with AP. 

-High visibility. The Cleveland can be seen from a farther distance than other cruisers, in addition, it's large for a light cruiser and isn't that hard to hit.

-Competent BB captains and higher tier cruisers, and even Omahas, will rip this apart at close range faster than many can react and get out.

 

Japanese cruisers can and should fear the Cleveland, I've ripped apart Aobas in a few salvoes with the amount of citadel hits I get, but it's not the OP death machine people want to make it appear as. If you add torps, than the Omaha has more firepower close range, the Murmansk even more so. All of the disadvantages that come with the Cleveland's obscene AA ability, power against weakly armored cruisers, adequate HE ability, and very good manuverability make the Cleveland a relatively average ship. Still fun due to the fear factor the same complainers associate with it.

[Demon93IT]

Cleveland is nerfed to the ground to stay at tier VI and WG already stated she'll get moved eventually.

[suleiman71]

Cleveland is nerfed to the ground to stay at tier VI and WG already stated she'll get moved eventually.

 

I don't understand the logic behind such a move. The Pensacola, with its current stats, would [censored] the Aoba and all the tier 4s and 5s tier 6s it meets. The Cleveland would require a pretty big buff to be able to complete in tier 8/9.

[Demon93IT]

 

I don't understand the logic behind such a move. The Pensacola, with its current stats, would [censored] the Aoba and all the tier 4s and 5s tier 6s it meets. The Cleveland would require a pretty big buff to be able to complete in tier 8/9.

 

You mean it would require removing all the nerfs put in place by WG in terms of firepower, AA and so on. She doesn't need anything more than she historically had already.

[HerrCommandant]

Once upon a time there was a thread...

In that thread whenever some one says "hue hue hue, IT OP! IT OP!"

A group comes along and says NURF NURF NURF! like there the magically annoying snypes of the wild a chirpin along

Then came the hunters who come along and start the killing and flaming which up sets the natural order laid out by the almighty WG gods.

Who then come along with a terrible rage and the power and ban hammer to destroy hundreds (While being really nice, wonder how that works :3) and start locking the threads trapping a part of the poor souls and their grammatical errors (In WG eyes) here in this thread for eternity.

 

THE END :3

[Arvanna_1]

Some folks do let the reputation go to their heads and play thinking that they can go full broadside at slow speed and those small citadels will keep them from getting blown out of the water in short order. I ran into one of these Admiral Nelson wannabes earlier in a match with my Colorado cruising full broadside at like half speed, took me 3 salvos landing 9 hits to blow him out of the water, most satisfying kill of the match.

[crzyhawk]

 

I don't understand the logic behind such a move. The Pensacola, with its current stats, would [censored] the Aoba and all the tier 4s and 5s tier 6s it meets. The Cleveland would require a pretty big buff to be able to complete in tier 8/9.

 

You'd have to put something else at T6 to replace it.  the most likely candidate is the 1921 scout cruiser, essentially the 8 gun Pensacola.  With only 8 guns, the difference between Pensacola and Aoba is much less.  Set the original hull with only 4 5"/25's (that's all the original Pensacolas and Northamptons had) and the upgraded hulls to 8 5"25's (what they got after they landed their torpedo tubes) and some 1.1".

 

That ship is a reasonable match for the Aoba, when you factor in Aoba's torps as opposed to Scout cruiser's guns.

 

As for Cleveland, she's SUPPOSED to have 10 rpm ROF on her 6"/47's.  The current 7.5 RPM is a huge nerf over where she should be.  Return her ROF to 10 RPM and return her AA abilities back to where they were before THEY got nerfed, and she's easily a T8 cruiser.  At 10 rpm, she shoots nearly as fast as Atlanta.

[IronWolfV]

 

You'd have to put something else at T6 to replace it.  the most likely candidate is the 1921 scout cruiser, essentially the 8 gun Pensacola.  With only 8 guns, the difference between Pensacola and Aoba is much less.  Set the original hull with only 4 5"/25's (that's all the original Pensacolas and Northamptons had) and the upgraded hulls to 8 5"25's (what they got after they landed their torpedo tubes) and some 1.1".

 

That ship is a reasonable match for the Aoba, when you factor in Aoba's torps as opposed to Scout cruiser's guns.

 

As for Cleveland, she's SUPPOSED to have 10 rpm ROF on her 6"/47's.  The current 7.5 RPM is a huge nerf over where she should be.  Return her ROF to 10 RPM and return her AA abilities back to where they were before THEY got nerfed, and she's easily a T8 cruiser.  At 10 rpm, she shoots nearly as fast as Atlanta.

 

You also forgot the flatter trajectory of the guns as well. Used to be shots took about 6-7 seconds to go 14km. Now 13 seconds.

[Rory_Mercury]

Once upon a time there was a thread...

In that thread whenever some one says "hue hue hue, IT OP! IT OP!"

A group comes along and says NURF NURF NURF! like there the magically annoying snypes of the wild a chirpin along

Then came the hunters who come along and start the killing and flaming which up sets the natural order laid out by the almighty WG gods.

Who then come along with a terrible rage and the power and ban hammer to destroy hundreds (While being really nice, wonder how that works :3) and start locking the threads trapping a part of the poor souls and their grammatical errors (In WG eyes) here in this thread for eternity.

 

THE END :3

*wipes tear* That was beautiful bro

[Rotary_Rocket]

OP is spot on, what the Cleveland is is the last of the fun US CA's, you could say the Atlanta is but she is a premium.

[HerrCommandant]

*wipes tear* That was beautiful bro

 

Heh heh heh... I try sometimes. :3

[IronWolfV]

 

Heh heh heh... I try sometimes. :3

 

You do try. Succeeding, that's another story. 

[crzyhawk]

 

You also forgot the flatter trajectory of the guns as well. Used to be shots took about 6-7 seconds to go 14km. Now 13 seconds.

 

I didn't forget it, it seemed the ninja'd that in with the OBT patch.  Before all the 15cm class weapons were similar, and the 20cm class guns were similar.  After that patch, it looked like they adjusted muzzle velocities to behave more like the real thing.  USN guns typically had a lower muzzle velocity than other nations.  I'd imagine that was to make them better long range deck penetrators, but it's not really relevant.  What is relevant, is that USN guns had lower velocity and that is modelled in game.

 

That lower velocity, tends to suck for the USN in game as deck penetrations in my experience are pretty spotty, but it's pretty justifiable when you look up the stats of the guns.  I want to cry loudly about it, but...it is what it is.

[Vaidency]

Does WG have some kind of objection to high-tier CL's?  The Cleveland obviously should be a tier 8 or so CL, but it seems WG wants only CA's at high tiers, so they nerfed it down to try and cram it into tier 6 so it'd be below all the CA's.  This makes some degree of sense in the IJN line because Japan did sort of stop developing new CL's eventually so all their most modern cruisers were CA's, but the USN didn't do that so their high tiers should be a mix of CL's and CA's.

[IronWolfV]

 

I didn't forget it, it seemed the ninja'd that in with the OBT patch.  Before all the 15cm class weapons were similar, and the 20cm class guns were similar.  After that patch, it looked like they adjusted muzzle velocities to behave more like the real thing.  USN guns typically had a lower muzzle velocity than other nations.  I'd imagine that was to make them better long range deck penetrators, but it's not really relevant.  What is relevant, is that USN guns had lower velocity and that is modelled in game.

 

That lower velocity, tends to suck for the USN in game as deck penetrations in my experience are pretty spotty, but it's pretty justifiable when you look up the stats of the guns.  I want to cry loudly about it, but...it is what it is.

If they wanted to decrease muzzle velocity that's fine. The arc is the bigger issue.

[crzyhawk]

Muzzle velocity determines the arc.  The faster the shot, the flatter the arc.

[suleiman71]

Does WG have some kind of objection to high-tier CL's?  The Cleveland obviously should be a tier 8 or so CL, but it seems WG wants only CA's at high tiers, so they nerfed it down to try and cram it into tier 6 so it'd be below all the CA's.  This makes some degree of sense in the IJN line because Japan did sort of stop developing new CL's eventually so all their most modern cruisers were CA's, but the USN didn't do that so their high tiers should be a mix of CL's and CA's.

 

152s don't have the best penetration. 

 

EDIT: Somebody said in another thread to make the Pensacola a t5. Even t6 doesn't make any sense, it just makes cruisers closer to battleships, which isn't needed.

 

 

 

[HerrCommandant]

 

You do try. Succeeding, that's another story. 

 

Auuuuuuuuuuuuu y u needa be mean...

*Wittle Momiji me hides in box of hax mk2.*

[Fragasm]

My Pensacola eats Clevelands for breakfast. 

[AdmiralPiett]

 

I don't understand the logic behind such a move. The Pensacola, with its current stats, would [censored] the Aoba and all the tier 4s and 5s tier 6s it meets. The Cleveland would require a pretty big buff to be able to complete in tier 8/9.

 

It isn't about buffing it. The Cleveland in game is hugely under-performing compared to its real life counterpart. Wargaming basically took an excellent post-treaty CL and artificially nerfed the crap out of it to make it compete with stuff from the 1920s. When it goes up (and Wargaming has mentioned that it will), it will most assuredly get its real stats back. As for what they will put at tier VI in its place, I have no idea.

[IronWolfV]

 

Auuuuuuuuuuuuu y u needa be mean...

*Wittle Momiji me hides in box of hax mk2.*

 

Why? GOD WILLS IT! 

[suleiman71]

 

It isn't about buffing it. The Cleveland in game is hugely under-performing compared to its real life counterpart. Wargaming basically took an excellent post-treaty CL and artificially nerfed the crap out of it to make it compete with stuff from the 1920s. When it goes up (and Wargaming has mentioned that it will), it will most assuredly get its real stats back. As for what they will put at tier VI in its place, I have no idea.

 

I'm opposed to it being retiered because the Pensacola would cause an imbalance with lower tier BBs that t6s meet even if nerfed to a degree. To fill the t6 spot, WG could scavenge for a decent paper design that is reasonable, but even then, there aren't many out there at best. 

[HerrCommandant]

 

Why? GOD WILLS IT! 

 

God you say? Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff -years later- fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffT! "there aint nu godsh!" :3

 

 

My excuse whenever I hear gods will it or anything of such blasphemy IMO :3

*Freedom of religion and speech in America despite having no such things here* Woot!

[Demon93IT]

The original design of Brooklyn, before the specs changed after the arrival of Mogami.

[IronWolfV]

 

God you say? Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff -years later- fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffT! "there aint nu godsh!" :3

 

 

My excuse whenever I hear gods will it or anything of such blasphemy IMO :3

*Freedom of religion and speech in America despite having no such things here* Woot!

 

It's more I am making fun of "Kingdom of Heaven." When I can't explain something or I got nothing, I just say GOD WILLS IT! Seems to get laughs.