Why is the Gremyashchiy a Tier 5 ship

[Cobraclutch]

Plain and simple. I do not understand why this ship is slotted at tier 5.   

 

This ship was laid down around the same time as the Mahan class and Asashio class destroyers. Its better then a Mahan without question and could easily give the tier 7 IJN DD a run for its money.

 

Not trying to ruins everyone who bought this ships day. But the question is this, why is a ship that is clearly designed during the build up to ww2 in a tier were all similar class ships are vintage ww1 designs. 

 

This thing could go toe to toe with most modern ww2 designs. So why is it in tier 5? 

 

This ship should be in tier 6 or 7....

 

 

 

Gremyashchiy - Gnevny Class destroyer - Built 1935 - Gremyashchiy Laid down July 23rd 1936. Tier 5

 

Minekaze -  Minekaze class destroyer - Laid down April 20th 1918 - Tier 5

 

Mutsuki - Mutsuki class destroyer - built 1924-1927 - Tier 6

 

USS Nicholas - Destroyer Leader 1919 - Tier 5 

 

USS Farragut - Farragut Class - Built 1932-1935 - Tier 6 

[Jinxed_Katajainen]

Only thing I can say is timeframe doesn't factor into balancing.

We can go on forever with this topc if we bring up ships like the Lexington who was built in the 1920s yet she is a Tier 8 due to her plane capacity and AA

 

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

because russian bias

look at Murmansk vs Omaha.

 

case in point.

[ZombieFlanders]

i wonder this myself, but it is a sort of tween ship with OK/good guns and torps instead all one or the other like USN/IJN. 

 

also, in my experience, the gremy has really weak modules and is really a glass cannon which holds it back. for example even with the engine upgrade installed the engine gets knocked out constantly, sometimes back to back. 

 

build time doesnt really factor in since its balanced about right. 

[scruffycavetroll]

because russian bias

look at Murmansk vs Omaha.

 

case in point.

 

IT'S NOT JUST FOR WAR THUNDER ANYMORE

[Strike_Witch_Tomoko]

 

IT'S NOT JUST FOR WAR THUNDER ANYMORE

 

it never was

WG's had russian bias before WT even got off the ground

[SourKraut13]

Because Italians rule...

[Cobraclutch]

Only thing I can say is timeframe doesn't factor into balancing.

We can go on forever with this topc if we bring up ships like the Lexington who was built in the 1920s yet she is a Tier 8 due to her plane capacity and AA

 

 

Fine, throw the timeline out the window.

 

 

Gremy - (Mahan)

 

HP : 13100  (14100)

Speed: 37.7 kt  (35.4kt)

Maneuverability: 3.5s 510m  ( 5.3s 560m)

Range:11.9 km  (11.7km) 

Torpedoes:14400 - 8km 55 knots 0.9 ROF  ( 11733 - 6.4 km 64 knots 0.7 ROF)

ROF:12 RPM 130mm (12 RPM 127mm)

Shell Damage: HE 1900 AP 2500  ( HE 1800 AP 2100)

Train: 36 seconds 180deg (12 seconds 180deg)

Concealment 7km (7.9km)

 

 

 

So you have a tier 5 premium, that has a little less HP, better rudder shift time, better turning radius, better range, better torps,better speed,better caliber, better gun velocity,better shell damage, equal ROF, worse training speed and better concealment then a tier 7 regular Mahan?

 

something is not right with this picture..

[SourKraut13]

 

Fine, throw the timeline out the window.

 

 

Gremy - (Mahan)

 

HP : 13100  (14100)

Speed: 37.7 kt  (35.4kt)

Maneuverability: 3.5s 510m  ( 5.3s 560m)

Range:11.9 km  (11.7km) 

Torpedoes:14400 - 8km 55 knots 0.9 ROF  ( 11733 - 6.4 km 64 knots 0.7 ROF)

ROF:12 RPM 130mm (12 RPM 127mm)

Train: 36 seconds 180deg (12 seconds 180deg)

Concealment 7km (7.9km)

 

 

So you have a tier 5 premium, that has a little less HP, better rudder shift time, better turning radius, better range, better torps,better speed,better caliber, better gun velocity, equal ROF, worse training speed and better concealment then a tier 7 regular Mahan?

 

something is not right with this picture..

Mahan sucks? 

WG has it set up where the skill level @T6+ needs to increase in order to do well. Japanese DD's are similar with T6 & T7 not so good.

[SACEUR]

Plain and simple. I do not understand why this ship is slotted at tier 5.   

 

This ship was laid down around the same time as the Mahan class and Asashio class destroyers. Its better then a Mahan without question and could easily give the tier 7 IJN DD a run for its money.

 

The Gremy is good no doubt but I ate them up in my Farragut and Mahan in CBT and unless you're totally clueless, the Gremy is no match for a tier 6 or 7 DD

[Cobraclutch]

 

The Gremy is good no doubt but I ate them up in my Farragut and Mahan in CBT and unless you're totally clueless, the Gremy is no match for a tier 6 or 7 DD

 

If you were driving the Gremy, would you be able to kill a tier 6-7 USN Or IJN DD with it? I believe i could with ease...

 

I am certain you owned them sure, but that could also be because you are more skilled then the captain you were fighting.

 

Like for example, I owned a sims last night in my Mahan. On paper a Sims should beat a Mahan just cause it has better speed and maneuvering, but in game I owned him without loosing more then 1.5k health.

 

Does not mean the Mahan is better then the Sims..

[SACEUR]

 

If you were driving the Gremy, would you be able to kill a tier 6-7 USN Or IJN DD with it? I believe i could with ease...

 

I am certain you owned them sure, but that could also be because you are more skilled then the captain you were fighting.

 

Fair point, I would. I guess it all boils down to the driver.

[MrMooFlarby01]

Honestly even if it is OP it's ok. OP ships can be dealt with in game, unlike OP tanks.

[Cobraclutch]

Honestly even if it is OP it's ok. OP ships can be dealt with in game, unlike OP tanks.

 

Fair point, tier disparity is much less in WOWS I agree with you on this. 

 

But tier for tier with equally skilled players. A Gremy will outperform all DD's in its tier. 

[Jinxed_Katajainen]

Unless you upgrade that train time, the Mahan will likely come out on top.  

Stock Gremy at least will out turn her own guns and will have trouble keeping her guns trained on a moving target at DD spotting range, which will make her said in straighter lines and predictable turns to bring the guns to bear.

 

In the end though, it all comes down to player skill.

[Drakedge]

Plain and simple. I do not understand why this ship is slotted at tier 5.   

 

This ship was laid down around the same time as the Mahan class and Asashio class destroyers. Its better then a Mahan without question and could easily give the tier 7 IJN DD a run for its money.

 

Not trying to ruins everyone who bought this ships day. But the question is this, why is a ship that is clearly designed during the build up to ww2 in a tier were all similar class ships are vintage ww1 designs. 

 

This thing could go toe to toe with most modern ww2 designs. So why is it in tier 5? 

 

This ship should be in tier 6 or 7....

 

 

 

Gremyashchiy - Gnevny Class destroyer - Built 1935 - Gremyashchiy Laid down July 23rd 1936. Tier 5

 

Minekaze -  Minekaze class destroyer - Laid down April 20th 1918 - Tier 5

 

Mutsuki - Mutsuki class destroyer - built 1924-1927 - Tier 6

 

USS Nicholas - Destroyer Leader 1919 - Tier 5 

 

USS Farragut - Farragut Class - Built 1932-1935 - Tier 6 

 

Heck Russians didn't even do anything navy wise until 1945, by then the war was pretty much over anyway. They spent the whole time blockaded and bombed in their ports.

[Sungod1]

I got neged in another thread for pointing out the obvious...  

[Barake]

 

If you were driving the Gremy, would you be able to kill a tier 6-7 USN Or IJN DD with it? I believe i could with ease...

 

I am certain you owned them sure, but that could also be because you are more skilled then the captain you were fighting.

 

Like for example, I owned a sims last night in my Mahan. On paper a Sims should beat a Mahan just cause it has better speed and maneuvering, but in game I owned him without loosing more then 1.5k health.

 

Does not mean the Mahan is better then the Sims..

 

I am pretty comfortable saying my Mayhan would kill a gremy most times.

[Yuubari_Melon]

It's not like that many people have the Gremyashchy anyway, as it was a pre-order ship. Considering how many people say the other two (Yuubari in particular ) are underpowered for their tier, I'm fine with having at least one slightly better premium ship. As time goes on, people will forget the ship even exists, and at least some people who pre-ordered the game will stop playing for various reasons.

For example, when was the last time you played WoT and had an M4A2E4 Sherman or M6A2E1 in your battle?

 

And lastly, it's not completely broken like some vehicles Wargaming has added *Cough* Type59 *Cough*.

[Maddogicus]

Gremy guns suck...............that's why it is only a T5

[Cobraclutch]

Just wanted to throw this out here, this is a stat comparison from the asian server. Gremy VS Sims

 

Top 10% of best players only

 

From left to right,                Players, GP   , Battles, Win%, AvgXP,Avg Dmg,K/D                              Avg XP

 

US

DD

7

Sims

256

6631

25.90

52.74

1095

17666

0.54

0.26

3.09

6.50

31402

 

 

SN

DD

5

Gremyashchy

421

17071

40.55

57.78

1196

29930

1.08

0.39

2.91

8.23

40391

 

 

 

And in the Gremy's defense, According to the Asian server Stats she gets outperformed by the Nicholas/Farragut/Mahan/Clemson/Minekaze,Mutsuki and Hatsuharu.

 

So I guess thats why it is in tier 5. I find it very interesting that the Sims performs so poorly though.. never would of thought.

[Midnitewolf]

 

The Gremy is good no doubt but I ate them up in my Farragut and Mahan in CBT and unless you're totally clueless, the Gremy is no match for a tier 6 or 7 DD

 

Pretty much agree here.  USN DDs are much better gun boats while IJN DDs are much better with torpedoes both by significant margins at Tier 6/7 which is why the Gremy is a Tier 5.  Its guns, while good, turn way too slow for it to function as a gunboat and its torpedoes are anywhere near good enough to compete at Tier 6/7 as a torpedo boat.

 

To get the Gremy up to Tier 7 standards, you would have to increase the tube count from 2 x 3 to at least a 2 x 4 configuration.  Additionally the torpedo speed would have to be increased up to around the 64-66 knot range thought the 8 km range is probably adequate.  Turret rotation would need to be reduced by about 10 seconds and hit point adjusted up by around 2k.  At that point it would be a competitive at Tier 7.  

[Cobraclutch]

 

I am pretty comfortable saying my Mayhan would kill a gremy most times.

 

And i figure that if the situations were reversed, you would get killed in the Gremy if your clone was driving the Mahan?

[vanFrozit]

Like there is no such thing as American bias.   Nope, never, uh uh.

 

 

Right.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

Destroyer gameplay is all a bit wonky right now.  Comparing DD vs DD works fine in a dueling environment (I'll take the Mahan over the Gremmy for anti-DD work, thanks) but that's not the isolated bubble in which destroyers usually find themselves.  When facing off against other ships, the big number you're looking for is the following:

 

Torpedo range greater than your detection range.

 

Secondary stats that are desirable are torpedo alpha and speed with a non-punitive reload or very large number of torpedoes.  The Mahan does not fit the bill for this primary factor (though it works alright in the second).  The Gremyashchy barely does so it takes a lot of care to use properly.  A 1km buffer just isn't enough to safely launch a strike in the path of oncoming enemy vessels (meaning by the time you turn broadside to fire at them, they'll have closed the distance and spotted you).  The limited range also precludes it from making invisible strikes from the rear (enemy will outdistance the 8km range).  The Gremmy is thus limited to slashing attacks from the flanks if it wants to remain permanently invisible.

 

US Destroyers are in a bit of a rough spot right now because they have a severely reduced opportunity to launch ambushes with the nerfs to smoke screens. 

 

The other thing going for the Gremyashchy over US Destroyers like the Mahan and the Sims:  It doesn't face high-tier cruisers nearly so often.  The nemesis of the Gremyashchy is the American Phoenix and Omaha cruisers which have the firepower, agility and speed to challenge it.  The Mahan and Sims faces ships like the Atlanta, Cleveland, Myoko and Mogami -- ships that have such punitive firepower that a spotted DD is a dead DD in as little as one to two volleys.